Is Taekwondo turning into "the pushing art"?

[Flying Crane]

• It used to be that fighters would lean back so far when they kicked, that the only way to get back up was to roll. This kept your head so far away from your opponent that they couldn't retaliate. Rule was changed that if you fall while scoring a point, the point doesn't count.

They had to make a special rule for this??

 

[Jaeimseu]

They had to make a special rule for this??

Yes. Some players would intentionally fall to avoid a counter attack.


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[Jaeimseu]

The only logical assumptions I can come to is either Red did not know she could, or how, to push back, red was totally out of gas, or it was very questionable judging.

My conclusion is that the Blue player had no answer to Red and so resorted to gaming the rules. My understanding is that Red had beaten Blue two or three times consecutively and was dominating the scoreboard in this match.

The worst part to me was watching her celebrate as if it was some wonderful performance.


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[skribs]

They had to make a special rule for this??

As the sport evolves and more "cheese" is discovered, that cheese needs to be eliminated from the rules. Another rule is "no monkey kicks", which are basically reverse hook kicks (i.e. an inward strike with the heel to the ribs). These kicks don't have enough power to be very effective in a real situation, but are strong enough to activate the sensors on the chestguard and score a point.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes. Some players would intentionally fall to avoid a counter attack.


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Sure, but it seems to me that voiding a point if the competitor falls down when he delivers the technique would be an automatic. I am surprised they needed to create a rule specifically to govern that issue.

 

[Flying Crane]

As the sport evolves and more "cheese" is discovered, that cheese needs to be eliminated from the rules. Another rule is "no monkey kicks", which are basically reverse hook kicks (i.e. an inward strike with the heel to the ribs). These kicks don't have enough power to be very effective in a real situation, but are strong enough to activate the sensors on the chestguard and score a point.

The rules are what they are, but I would say that could be an effective kick, depending on the target.

 

[skribs]

The rules are what they are, but I would say that could be an effective kick, depending on the target.

And it wouldn't be very effective on the target it is scoring on.

 

[Flying Crane]

And it wouldn't be very effective on the target it is scoring on.

To the ribs? Sure it could be.

 

[skribs]

To the ribs? Sure it could be.

A punch would be faster and harder to counter, and you'd have better balance if they grab your arm than if they grabbed your leg.

 

[Flying Crane]

A punch would be faster and harder to counter, and you'd have better balance if they grab your arm than if they grabbed your leg.

That may or may not be true depending on circumstances. But either way it does not change the fact that the inward heel kick to the ribs can be effective.

Whether or not a different technique or a different set of circumstances might be MORE effective does not diminish the fact that the technique in question is effective.

 

[Mitlov]

Sure, but it seems to me that voiding a point if the competitor falls down when he delivers the technique would be an automatic. I am surprised they needed to create a rule specifically to govern that issue.

Rolling or falling kicks are a staple in Kyokushin. It's not surprising to me that TKD would need to clarify whether or not they're legal in the WT ruleset.

 

[Buka]

Rolling or falling kicks are a staple in Kyokushin. It's not surprising to me that TKD would need to clarify whether or not they're legal in the WT ruleset.

They were staple in American karate, too. I so loved rolling and falling kicks, used to smoke people with them all the time in competition....until they made me stop. They said because I lost eye contact with the target for a split second it was dangerous because of that. I countered with "then why are all manner of spin kicks allowed?" Of course they had no answer to that.

I have found that the people who run competitions in the striking arts don't really care about anything other than making their own jobs easier and, of course, making a buck.

The cartwheel version of the falling kicks is still my favorite, and I can still land it with one hundred percent accuracy even as an old man. There is no other technique I can say that about. I throw it at shorter than jab distance and I can hit anyone with it any time I want. That's how damn easy it is to throw if you have it in your repertoire.

As for that video of the two girls competing, I felt embarrassed watching that. The instructor of the girl in blue has no place in the Arts in my opinion. That was awful. Even her grandparents should be embarrassed.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

They were staple in American karate, too. I so loved rolling and falling kicks, used to smoke people with them all the time in competition....until they made me stop. They said because I lost eye contact with the target for a split second it was dangerous because of that. I countered with "then why are all manner of spin kicks allowed?" Of course they had no answer to that.

I have found that the people who run competitions in the striking arts don't really care about anything other than making their own jobs easier and, of course, making a buck.

The cartwheel version of the falling kicks is still my favorite, and I can still land it with one hundred percent accuracy even as an old man. There is no other technique I can say that about. I throw it at shorter than jab distance and I can hit anyone with it any time I want. That's how damn easy it is to throw if you have it in your repertoire.

As for that video of the two girls competing, I felt embarrassed watching that. The instructor of the girl in blue has no place in the Arts in my opinion. That was awful. Even her grandparents should be embarrassed.

Any chance you've got a video of the falling cartwheel kick? I deal most of my damage in "shorter than jab" so would be cool to try learning it

 

[Buka]

Any chance you've got a video of the falling cartwheel kick? I deal most of my damage in "shorter than jab" so would be cool to try learning it

I don't, no. But if you can come to Maui I can teach you that kick so you would be able to hit anyone with it just about any time you want. And it would only take a day, maybe two. Honest Injun. I'll even take you to dinner after you get the kick down.

The thing about that kick within that "shorter than jab range" range - if you aren't familiar with it you will never see it coming. Precisely because you are in that short range. Let's say you have your right foot back, left foot forward....

You throw a right hand. I don't care what kind of right hand, a cross, a reverse punch, whatever you like. But that right hand is the first part of that kick. And you throw that right hand like you mean it, not just stick your arm out, really throw it to hit the face.

The rest is just ice cream. And perhaps apologies.

 

[Flying Crane]

Rolling or falling kicks are a staple in Kyokushin. It's not surprising to me that TKD would need to clarify whether or not they're legal in the WT ruleset.

Ok, I would expect that a judge in a tournament ought to be able to tell the difference between something deliberate like these, and someone who simply falls down in the middle of throwing his kick, or immediately after contact because he looses his footing or his balance. This is not rocket science.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't, no. But if you can come to Maui I can teach you that kick so you would be able to hit anyone with it just about any time you want. And it would only take a day, maybe two. Honest Injun. I'll even take you to dinner after you get the kick down.

The thing about that kick within that "shorter than jab range" range - if you aren't familiar with it you will never see it coming. Precisely because you are in that short range. Let's say you have your right foot back, left foot forward....

You throw a right hand. I don't care what kind of right hand, a cross, a reverse punch, whatever you like. But that right hand is the first part of that kick. And you throw that right hand like you mean it, not just stick your arm out, really throw it to hit the face.

The rest is just ice cream. And perhaps apologies.

I should hopefully be making my way that way in exactly one year. Going to take you up on that

 

[Buka]

Ok, I would expect that a judge in a tournament ought to be able to tell the difference between something deliberate like these, and someone who simply falls down in the middle of throwing his kick, or immediately after contact because he looses his footing or his balance. This is not rocket science.

The problem with most judges at most tournaments, at least striking tournaments, is they are usually the people who weren't quite clever enough to get out of judging that day.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I should hopefully be making my way that way in exactly one year. Going to take you up on that

Times like this i wish there was a way to "save" a post on here so i wouldn't forget it.

 

[Buka]

I should hopefully be making my way that way in exactly one year. Going to take you up on that

As Stephen, the mad Irishman from Braveheart said, 'Excellent!"

 

[CB Jones]

As Stephen, the mad Irishman from Braveheart said, 'Excellent!"

Hawaii is now Buka's island...