Is grappling better for female self defense than striking?

[Zero]

You honestly believe that traditional striking arts train in that fashion? Maybe more modern sport styles like Boxing, but older Asian styles? I'm not seeing that out of them unless they've fully adapted to a kickboxing type of style.

Hmm, just as an example, do you include Wing Chun as a traditional art? While the offense is all about working the opponent's centre line, just as fundamental is the offline deflection and movement. It's all about moving your opponent's attacks offline.

 

[Hanzou]

Hmm, just as an example, do you include Wing Chun as a traditional art? While the offense is all about working the opponent's centre line, just as fundamental is the offline deflection and movement. It's all about moving your opponent's attacks offline.

When I see a WC fighter actually using that principle in a fight, I'll believe it. Having a fighting theory is great. Seeing that theory applied on a consistent basis is even better.

 

[K-man]

Who said she didn't do "fine"? I think she followed standard self defense procedure very well when you're in a situation out of your control.

Um. I could be mistaken but I thought it was you on multiple occasions. Of course, against all the reports, you know that she wasn't in control. Certainly, she was jumped, and dumped. She recovered and according to all the reports was in control when the third party arrived.

The third party scared the attacker off. The situation could have been much different if the passerby completely ignored her screams for help.

That is a blatant lie. You made it up to suit your story.

And you'd be setting her up for a situation just like the girl in the OP. Unfortunately, you can't depend on a passerby' coming to your aid all the time. There's plenty of women who screamed for help, and no one came to their rescue.

No! You have no idea of the training I provide. It is nothing like your description of your Shotokan training. Keep your thoughts to yourself unless you know what training I provide.

 

[Hanzou]

Um. I could be mistaken but I thought it was you on multiple occasions. Of course, against all the reports, you know that she wasn't in control. Certainly, she was jumped, and dumped. She recovered and according to all the reports was in control when the third party arrived.

That is a blatant lie. You made it up to suit your story.

A blatant lie?

A stranger heard Ms Davis' screams for help and came to her aid, scaring off the attacker.

I basically beat the crap out of him Melbourne karate expert turns the tables on violent attacker - 9news.com.au

No! You have no idea of the training I provide. It is nothing like your description of your Shotokan training. Keep your thoughts to yourself unless you know what training I provide.

Oh, I wasn't aware that you would be the one doing the training. Well considering that you combine multiple arts and grappling, she would be quite a bit better off than the woman in the article. I find it quite interesting that you're against MMA training, when you offer MMA training yourself.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The one in Italy certainly didn't count on anyone coming to help her Hanzou. She knocked him down and he was unable to get up in time to get away from the police. Another success story just like the first one because what is important in the end is that they were able to survive the incident with no long lasting damage/effects and move on with their lives. That is what personal protection is all about!

 

[RTKDCMB]

With 15 years of martial arts experience, such assistance shouldn't have been necessary.

From the story it is not clear that it was necessary.

 

[Hanzou]

From the story it is not clear that it was necessary.

Considering that she was screaming for help, I would think that assistance was quite necessary.

 

[Hanzou]

The one in Italy certainly didn't count on anyone coming to help her Hanzou. She knocked him down and he was unable to get up in time to get away from the police. Another success story just like the first one because what is important in the end is that they were able to survive the incident with no long lasting damage/effects and move on with their lives. That is what personal protection is all about!

I never said that either article wasn't a success story. I simply find it interesting that one group depended on outside assistance, and the other group didn't. And yes, running into the police station and getting a cop to arrest the perp is depending on a third party to end the situation.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hanzou, your the only person here who feels that way. Everyone, throughout this thread believes she did really well and her screaming for help is part of efficient self-defense/personal protection strategy. I would do it and teach it. Heck, the people on the ground in Melbourne who are closer to this incident feel she did really well based on the TV and news article. I know it does not fit your "narrative" that grappling is better so I would move on and move forward. Your really losing this argument badly by utilizing this incident as your base for your agenda!

 

[Hanzou]

Hanzou, your the only person here who feels that way. Everyone, throughout this thread believes she did really well and her screaming for help is part of efficient self-defense/personal protection strategy. I would do it and teach it. Heck, the people on the ground in Melbourne who are closer to this incident feel she did really well based on the TV and news article. I know it does not fit your "narrative" that grappling is better so I would move on and move forward. Your really losing this argument badly by utilizing this incident as your base for your agenda!

Actually it fits the narrative perfectly. People are free to disagree of course, but I think its quite telling that you have a woman with 15 years of martial arts experience needing help from a passerby. On the other hand, you have women who choked out violent offenders without help from anyone.

What was the difference maker? Well you have women on one side depending on brute force, and you have women on the other side relying on various other factors.

Remember this vid?

Two supposedly equal martial artists sparring for a black belt test. The woman couldn't compete because she couldn't match the sheer power of her male opponent, and it got to the point where the guy just fought her with his hands down. And this is what happened to that girl in Australia. Despite her karate training, her blows simply weren't getting the job done. We should recognize that, and accept that, and teach women accordingly, instead of giving them some sort of fantasy that they're going to be able to stop that big burly killer with spinning kicks or knife-hand attacks.

Political correctness can be a killer.

 

[Xue Sheng]

And there was a woman, in NYC, that punched out a male attacker without help too , hit him twice, with her right, he fell down both times and after the second fall ran away....also did not drop her bag of groceries in her left .....

 

[elder999]

Actually it fits the narrative perfectly. People are free to disagree of course, but I think its quite telling that you have a woman with 15 years of martial arts experience needing help from a passerby. On the other hand, you have women who choked out violent offenders without help from anyone.
Political correctness can be a killer.

And this is just insulting, in the end.

Bad Idea Trying To Abduct 14-Year-Old Karate Student - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com

71-year-old woman kicks clubs maces her attacker - KSHB.com

Tilgate Park Crawley attacker beaten up by schoolgirl martial artist Metro News

Woman beats attacker with chicken Stranger attempted to strangle with bra

A Woman Says She Beat the Hell Out of Knife-Wielding Attacker at White Rock Last Night Dallas Observer

Oregon woman kills hitman hired by her husband - wave3.com-Louisville News Weather Sports
(Love this one!)

Woman With Baby In Stroller Beats Attacker In Fort Tryon Park Gothamist

Women have been defending themselves against men for a long time....like, I dunno, forever.

 

[Zero]

When I see a WC fighter actually using that principle in a fight, I'll believe it. Having a fighting theory is great. Seeing that theory applied on a consistent basis is even better.

I might actually get a bashing from WC guys here but Hanzou, I must say I acknowledge your point. I only did WC for 2 years alongside when I was doing goju to add to my game. From my short time I would say that WC is an awesome and very "scientific", no-nonsense style, if you get my meaning....

...That said from watching junior through to senior/black shirt WC guys entering into freestyle and wushu tournaments, I have to say that without exception they either from the start or very quickly when faced with an opponent (and the guys they were fighting were decent enough kick boxers in general) adopted a fighting style that had no resemblance to WC or WC moves or stances that I was familiar with, it very much became a form of boxing approach. Now, you could say that because they were wearing gloves certain WC moves are rendered problematic at best or ineffective at worst and that given they were constrained by the rules of the tournament they were at a disadvantage but I am always highly suspicious of those kind of arguments (although that may be a valid observation). But that said, WC is a style developed to deal with other striking styles (and it should not be just to deal with other WC proponents) so it is interesting.

 

[Zero]

Actually it fits the narrative perfectly. People are free to disagree of course, but I think its quite telling that you have a woman with 15 years of martial arts experience needing help from a passerby. On the other hand, you have women who choked out violent offenders without help from anyone.

What was the difference maker? Well you have women on one side depending on brute force, and you have women on the other side relying on various other factors.

Remember this vid?

Two supposedly equal martial artists sparring for a black belt test. The woman couldn't compete because she couldn't match the sheer power of her male opponent, and it got to the point where the guy just fought her with his hands down. And this is what happened to that girl in Australia. Despite her karate training, her blows simply weren't getting the job done. We should recognize that, and accept that, and teach women accordingly, instead of giving them some sort of fantasy that they're going to be able to stop that big burly killer with spinning kicks or knife-hand attacks.

Political correctness can be a killer.

Are you saying that in striking styles sheer superior size, weight and/or power will defeat a "smaller" opponent, whereas in grappling or specifically bjj, such differences in size do not correlate to the same kind of disadvantage?

 

[elder999]

I adopted a fighting style that had no resemblance to WC or WC moves or stances that I was familiar with, it very much became a form of boxing approach. .

From my experience, wing chun is very much of a boxing approach.....just sayin'......Bruce Lee won a Hong Kong amateur boxing tournament in 1958, with nothing but wing chun training......

 

[Tony Dismukes]

So she knocks the mugger down and runs to a police station.

Impressive.....

And yes, running into the police station and getting a cop to arrest the perp is depending on a third party to end the situation.

If you knock an attacker down and they haven't recovered enough to leave the scene before you come back with the cops to arrest them, I'd say you won the fight pretty decisively. In this case, the young lady had already successfully defended herself and brought the police in to arrest the perp, not to save her.

 

[Hanzou]

Are you saying that in striking styles sheer superior size, weight and/or power will defeat a "smaller" opponent, whereas in grappling or specifically bjj, such differences in size do not correlate to the same kind of disadvantage?

I would say that in striking styles its far more likely to happen. Again, in my karate days, I could hang with female black belts with little problem, even when I first started. In Bjj female upper belts demolished me quite easily, simply because they weren't going force against force.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Are you saying that in striking styles sheer superior size, weight and/or power will defeat a "smaller" opponent, whereas in grappling or specifically bjj, such differences in size do not correlate to the same kind of disadvantage?

Hanzou, who has a moderate degree of experience in both striking and grappling arts, believes that size and strength differences matter more in striking.

Kung Fu Wang, who has quite a bit of experience in both striking and grappling (although I don't know if that includes ground grappling), believes that size and strength differences matter more in grappling.

I, having a reasonable degree of experience in both, find the disadvantage of working against a bigger, stronger opponent to be about the same in both modalities. All other things being equal, the bigger person has the advantage, which is why it is important to not let all other things be equal.

One advantage you do find in grappling is that it is easier to put in the necessary long hours of sparring against larger opponents without getting hurt. I can grapple every day against a 260-pound powerhouse who is using his size and strength against me. I might get repeatedly crushed and tapped out, but I should be able to avoid injury. If I'm dong hard boxing or kickboxing sparring against the same guy every day, I may end up with a concussion. On the other hand, if we're talking about a self-defense situation, I'm going to have to deal with the big guy's strikes anyway, so I'll need to get some experience handling those in training.

 

[Zero]

From my experience, wing chun is very much of a boxing approach.....just sayin'......Bruce Lee won a Hong Kong amateur boxing tournament in 1958, with nothing but wing chun training......

Yup, a good enough observation (again, that's only with my paltry two years experience in WC and ongoing observations).

 

[Dirty Dog]

I, having a reasonable degree of experience in both, find the disadvantage of working against a bigger, stronger opponent to be about the same in both modalities. All other things being equal, the bigger person has the advantage, which is why it is important to not let all other things be equal.

I like to think I have a reasonable degree of experience in both, and I think you're spot on here. It's not so much if you're a grappler or a striker. It's the specific circumstances of the altercation. There is no "one size fits all" answer.
This past weekend, being a holiday weekend, we had more than the usual number of people developing what I generically refer to as "beer muscles" - people who, for whatever psychiatric and/or chemical reason, think they want to fight everybody.

Two men spring to mind. Both are taller than me. One lighter, one heavier.
One I took down with a strike, one with a grapple.
Admittedly, the environment means that I don't have to keep them down very long before others help, but the fact is that the specific circumstances of each event dictate the most effective response.