Internal art observation

[Dirty Dog]

Allow me to echo what tshadowchaser has said. This is MartialTalk. A place for FRIENDLY Martial Arts discussion.
If you can't keep the conversation polite, respectful and professional, threads get locked. Moderators get overworked.
People get suspended. Or banned.
Let's not go there, ok?

Mark A Cochran
Dirty Dog
MT Senior Moderator

 

[dlcox]

It is in my YouTube above. That is the common denominator of ancient Chinese internal art.


As for your trying to link things with tibertian art, I don't think the tibertian art has the same practice with the Chinese based on evidence.


This is Tibetan art mixing some Chinese art. It is not the same design as ancient Chinese art which deal with the Chinese 12 medirians

Having watched your video I did not see where it was clearly stated what the common denominator, as you put, was mentioned. I fail to connect your thoughts to anything tangible, perhaps if you were to cross reference to an existing method based upon the ancient Chinese internal art, we all would have a clearer picture.

No disrespect here, but your reference of the Mian Li Zhen Quan is not the standard for representation of the 6 exercises. The exercises consist of 6 movements performed 3 ways, and there are many interpretations based upon the different lineages of Bon, Lama, Mizong, Dao and Chan that passed them on. These exercises are considered by many as the well spring from which Qigong, as we know it today, was formulated, they themselves more than likely having a foundation in Yoga. Typically weaved into a method of Yuan Gong that can clearly be seen in arts such as Bagua Zhang, Taiji Quan, Rou Quan, Luohan Quan etc. These exercises are generally basic training, not unlike how Ba Duan Jin is used, commonly taught to initiate monks of the Buddhist, Daoist, Bon and Hindu faiths. The history is long and detail spanning several thousands of years. If you have the time please look into it, I think you'll find it interesting.

As far as the meridians, again that is dependent upon the lineage that passed it on. The Bagua, Wu Xing, Taiji, Jiu Men etc. theories vary greatly in interpretation depending on the faith and lineage. Rarely have I seen two the same from different lineages. It is all very interpretive IMO otherwise there would be more regulation and standardization. Funny thing is all the different approaches seem to work, clouding things even further. In order to come to an understanding and a consensus I think further detail, clearly illustrated and explained with references to existing accepted theory would be helpful, do you agree?

 

[jks9199]

Look, folks... I can understand that there is a lot of passion in these topics, and strongly held beliefs. That's cool. Discuss and debate them with an attitude of mutual sharing, not mutual combat. In case multiple hints haven't been clear:

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

PLEASE KEEP THE CONVERSATION POLITE AND RESPECTFUL.

jks9199
Administrator

 

[zuti car]

Are there any evidence that "Emei 12 Zhuang" existed before republican period ? Or WWII? I mean real historical evidence ,like verified documents, books , stone carvings , anything that directly and without any doubt proves such system existed before second part of 20th centyry

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why is it telling the truth is arrogance?

Or may be it is your ego which cannot accept the fact you don't have the training.


For example, you claim you study Taiji...etc.

However, you ask the question on single whip. Isn't it clear that what I mention in my video consistence with what Chen Man Ching wrote in his book on wrist and the hand of beauty?

Those are basic stuffs. If you are not expose to it. Then, you need a teacher who know to teach you. It is that simple . Even me I still study with different sifus to get educated.

If you think I am being arrogant , may be it is because you don't face reality of one needs a sifu to study

I have a sifu that is by far more knowledgeable than you, there are many reasons for questions and I was asking the questions to see what your response was, I do not need you to teach me, you cannot, you do not have the knowledge to do so. It was a test to see if you knew and your refusal to answer shows me you do not know and therefore you failed the test. You do not answers to questions put to you and you return condescension because you do not know, you refuse to answer and tell others they are beneath you out of arrogance and lack of knowledge.

And it is your continued belief that you are above reproach and that what you speak is truth is beyond any shadow of doubt pure hubris.... you are incredibly arrogant and yet though denial and transference you accuse others of what you are guilty of....you have nothing to say that is of any use or importance.. you are wasting my time, others time and space on this site and others.....our conversation is done

 

[wtxs]

One always can study historical records from multi sources and direction to find out what is likely.

Nothing come out of thin air.

I never bring up race but you.

Studying historical records/sources only reveals what is "likely" ... and likely does not equates to 100% concrete proof, those documents are written by mere human ... and we know we have our flaws, prejudice and bias.

I did not accuse you any thing. However you do go on and on about ancient Chinese internal this and WC (Chinese) internal that, you did put Chinese/oriental/ Asian (race) on the forefront. Not once have you consider the possibility of other cultures may have the similar practices but in different form.

I have to ask, did even notice that I use the word "implication"?

Implication of racism is your doing..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I try to stay away from those threads that don't have

- What's your opinion on this?
- any comment?
- Your thought?
- ...

When I start a thread, I like to collect different opinions. My own opinion is not important at that moment (I don't need to tell myself what my own opinion is). I pretty much put myself into "listen mode". When someone starts a thread that only has a clip, it's very difficult to know what the OP's intention for that thread.

Should I

- put my 2 cents in?
- just put myself into "listen mode"?
- ...

 

[Transk53]

Another thread descended into something not desirable. Please people, lets be nice and disagree on a intellectual level, rather than testosterone. Please

 

[geezer]

... you did put Chinese/oriental/ Asian (race) on the forefront. Not once have you consider the possibility of other cultures may have the similar practices but in different form.

I have to ask, did even notice that I use the word "implication"?

Let it go. I don't think Hendrick is racist at all. He just wants us all, regardless of race, to agree with him. Sadly I do not. But no big deal.

@Hendrick: By the way, if you don't mind sharing, what is your ethnic backgound (not that it matters)? I'm just curious, since you obviously have Chinese roots and speak, read and write Cantonese. Yet the name "Santos" sounds Spanish or Portuguese. Do you have family in Macao or the Philippines?

 

[zuti car]

I've spoke with some friends from Hong Kong and some friends here on Taiwan as well . Problem with "Emei Snake" is ,such a thing didn't exist before modern times. Unfortunately , Emei arts were lost over time and this is very well known fact in China. Today , Chinese are trying to revive Emei arts by mixing modern wushu with other known internal systems like Tai Chi , Ba Gua ect. And it is working , more and more westerners are coming to learn "Emei" kung fu and "Emei masters" are going around the world and teach their art .

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think we have killed this this thread. How? I truly don't know.

 

[Xue Sheng]

we weren't blind followers

 

[Flying Crane]

What I adress is common internal art basic of ancient internal martial art. Not the type like zhineng qigong which is similar to a religion like and Bai He Pai a Tibetan type of art

Um... Bai He is generally in reference to the Fujian white crane method.

Bak Hok is the Tibetan white crane method.

While they are both "White Crane", they are not the same thing.

I just wanted to point that out to you.

 

[dlcox]

Um... Bai He is generally in reference to the Fujian white crane method.

Bak Hok is the Tibetan white crane method.

While they are both "White Crane", they are not the same thing.

I just wanted to point that out to you.

In this instance he was correct in his reference to Bai He Pai. I use Mandarin, and he was commenting on my post about Tibetan Qigong. I don't believe dialect dictates style. Also, having studied Tibetan White Crane for 30 years from various lineages I would argue that Fujian and Tibetan Crane share more than many realize. So much more to the art than the basic long fist methods that most have been exposed to. Every technique and methodology in Yong Chun (Wing Chun) can be found in Bai He Pai and then some. The lineages of Fujian and Tibetan Crane also stem from the same source, another little known fact. Wu Zhao Zhong (Ng Siu Jung) method of White Crane is relatively new in it's construction. Many forget that he altered the art and tried to standerdize it before his death. His branch also became the most popular and became recognized as the "Gold Standard", unfortunately like Linjia Hong Quan (Lam Family Hung Fist) this is a biased opinion. There are many "Village" branches of Hongjia that have a more direct route to Hong Xi Guan than Linjia Hong Quan just as there are other lineages of Bai He Pai that do not descend from Wu Zhao Zhong such as Wu Jian Hua who was a direct disciple of Huang Lin Kai. Wu Jian Hua's art is very different from Wu Zhao Zhong's, all cross pattern sets and lots of short hand, internal work etc. Whats more is also a different origin story than is commonly told.

 

[Flying Crane]

In this instance he was correct in his reference to Bai He Pai. I use Mandarin, and he was commenting on my post about Tibetan Qigong. I don't believe dialect dictates style. Also, having studied Tibetan White Crane for 30 years from various lineages I would argue that Fujian and Tibetan Crane share more than many realize. So much more to the art than the basic long fist methods that most have been exposed to. Every technique and methodology in Yong Chun (Wing Chun) can be found in Bai He Pai and then some. The lineages of Fujian and Tibetan Crane also stem from the same source, another little known fact. Wu Zhao Zhong (Ng Siu Jung) method of White Crane is relatively new in it's construction. Many forget that he altered the art and tried to standerdize it before his death. His branch also became the most popular and became recognized as the "Gold Standard", unfortunately like Linjia Hong Quan (Lam Family Hung Fist) this is a biased opinion. There are many "Village" branches of Hongjia that have a more direct route to Hong Xi Guan than Linjia Hong Quan just as there are other lineages of Bai He Pai that do not descend from Wu Zhao Zhong such as Wu Jian Hua who was a direct disciple of Huang Lin Kai. Wu Jian Hua's art is very different from Wu Zhao Zhong's, all cross pattern sets and lots of short hand, internal work etc. Whats more is also a different origin story than is commonly told.

I am curious to know about the lineages under which you have studied and trained. Thx.

 

[dlcox]

I am curious to know about the lineages under which you have studied and trained. Thx.

PM me, I will do my best to answer any questions you have.

 

[Flying Crane]

PM me, I will do my best to answer any questions you have.

I'm trying to figure out how to send a pm. Since they restructured the forums not long ago, I'm having difficulty finding it. Directions?

 

[dlcox]

I'm trying to figure out how to send a pm. Since they restructured the forums not long ago, I'm having difficulty finding it. Directions?

Created thread in Chinese Arts General forum to discuss this art.

 

[Minghe]

Baihe Pai is not a "religion"