Internal art observation

[zuti car]

all that and you didn't answer a single question I asked you in post #54, you did however say a lot of things no one has asked you about

You will never get a straight answer to any question from hendrik . He will completely ignore questions or say something totally unrelated . I am asking him for a very long time one simple question, to give me a museum address where is supposedly kept a very old book which proves his theories. To this day he wasn't able to write simple address , every time I ask about it he simply ignores me . I asked his partner Jim Roselando same question and still no answer . So I decided to write to national museum of history in Taipei and ask some of the historians there is such a book really exist , they would know because books from 12th century are extremely rare and valuable historical artifacts . We will see what historians have to say about it . I did the same whit his "original" 19th century document ,I have asked some Taiwanese friends to check that document and not only that language on that document is modern Chinese language which do not even resembles to 19th century Cantonese but due to the lack of knowledge author of that document put some simplified characters in the text and we all know simplified characters are invented in the end of 1950's and started to be commonly used in the mid of 1960's .

 

[Hendrik]

I have made three videos above to adress clearly what I mean. If you can't understand what I mean. I suggest you go get a teacher who can teaches you the basic.

You like to keep go off topic on unrelated stuffs. Why should I answer you?

You will never get a straight answer to any question from hendrik . He will completely ignore questions or say something totally unrelated . I am asking him for a very long time one simple question, to give me a museum address where is supposedly kept a very old book which proves his theories. To this day he wasn't able to write simple address , every time I ask about it he simply ignores me . I asked his partner Jim Roselando same question and still no answer . So I decided to write to national museum of history in Taipei and ask some of the historians there is such a book really exist , they would know because books from 12th century are extremely rare and valuable historical artifacts . We will see what historians have to say about it . I did the same whit his "original" 19th century document ,I have asked some Taiwanese friends to check that document and not only that language on that document is modern Chinese language which do not even resembles to 19th century Cantonese but due to the lack of knowledge author of that document put some simplified characters in the text and we all know simplified characters are invented in the end of 1950's and started to be commonly used in the mid of 1960's .

 

[dlcox]

1. Movement of Qi (Energy) is solely directed by the Yi (Mind) not the body. --------

This is not true at all in ancient Chinese practice.

Yes it is, don't try and make it all mysterious. Yi (Mind) is required first, manifestation first appears with thought.

Qi is just a common name of

Biochemical , bio electrical, bio thermal...etc energy in the human body.

Qigong is just the practice of handling these bio energy.

Yes, Qi (Energy) can be applied to many things it is quite ambiguous.



This is basic Neijia (Internal Family) type training and is further defined by several categories such as Jing (Essence), Shen (Spirit) and type specific Qi (Energy). Anytime energy is mentally projected or moved solely by use the Yi (Mind) this can be called Qi.-------


This is misleading and not accord with traditional Chinese medicine.

The above type of description shows one really don't know what it is but s speculation based ideas.

Not misleading at all, just simplified, Qi can be moved by other means of manipulation but always preceded by thought.

2. Li (Strength) is when muscle is supported by Qi (Energy). -------


Li is simply Muscle force.

Li (Strength) also is known as Li Qi, Qi infused muscle.

Any Qi (Energy) use that requires more than mental use or projection in order to implement is considered Li (Strength). Since muscle was required for functional use it can no longer be called Qi (Energy) and is classified as Li (Strength). This is a generic description of Qigong (Energy Work). --------


This is just made complex simple thing. And also an indication of it is just speculation not practice .

How can the person make all these myth know what it is a practice it in real life?

How is that complex? It doesn't get much more pared down and simplified. What's your definition?




3. Functional use of Li (Strength) is called Jin (Power). --------

Again, another speculation.

When one doesn't know what it is, one will not be able to develop it. Thus become all kind of myth and create all kind of gurus or experts because everyone of them think their interpretation is the truth but none can bring it to the physical world. Because they don't know what it is.
And they have no way to know what is what

Again not speculation. Jin (Power) is the coordination of energy harnessing, cultivation, retention and use, simple as that.

There are various methods of facilitation depending upon the art employed, but this is essentially a coordination of Qi (Energy) and Li (Strength) as directed by the Yi (Mind) to a single point. --------

This is saying a lot but saying nothing.

Again refer to above, and it's saying alot more than you have presented.

Jin is just simply force projection or handling with trajectory.
No need to mytify things.

Pretty much what I said, except I explained in simplified terms how it comes to be. Seems to me you're the one being all mystical and evasive.

This is basic Waijia (External Family) type training and is further defined by several classifications of Jin (Power). ------

Again, more general speculation without mean anything.

Please explain in detail how that statement is speculation, untrue and meaningless, seeing as how you are presenting yourself as an expert.


You can get very in-depth with the various classifications of and types of Qi, Li & Jin, but IMO this isn't really necessary beyond description of type specific action. Generally it is semantics similar to the descriptive actions of how specific movements are expressed, such as the difference between Zhong Bang (Middle Wing), Da Bang (Big Wing), Gai Zhou (Covering Elbow) etc. Same "Shape" being employed up, across, inward etc. The energy doesn't really change but the intent does. Focus affects force utilized. This can be strengthened through Qi (Energy) development and cultivation but does not occur solely because of it, all 3 methods are required. Generally when it comes to martial arts, Qi (Energy) is often grossly misused, functional use of energy is called Jin (Power) of which there are many types. ----------



One can keep writing a millions books on these stuffs , make more mysterious and woo woo, but not touching what it is.

It is like those who never taste Apple keep writings about the taste of Apple. But never present what is the taste of Apple.

Most so called internal book or YouTube in the west are exactly doing these.


I am not trying to put down or insult anyone, but address the reality of it is time to wake up.

I wrote this up as a simple explanation of the 3 basic categories of energy as seen/utilized in TCMA. It was not directed as a rebuttal to anything you wrote. I as stated their are many sub-divisions within each category, but didn't think it necessary to go into great depth to explain such simple labels and concepts. You are the one trying to make all this more esoteric and convoluted than it has to be, as you said it is simple and basic, so why are you trying to complicate it? The way in which you present whatever it is you are trying to present is way too cryptic to explain what is essentially basic fundamentals. You try and make it seem that by doing things your way that one will have the ability to Vulcan Mind Fuk another. In order to use Yong Chun effectively requires WORK, this requires physical exertion not navel contemplation and wishful thinking.

Time to wake up, quit fantasizing and go train, mystical arm waving, profound thoughts and jaw flapping isn't necessary for proficiency in any real MA if the goal is combat ability.

 

[Hendrik]

that just indicate you have never train in the subject.

Btw, yi is not mind but just an aspect of mind.

 

[zuti car]

I

You like to keep go off topic on unrelated stuffs. Why should I answer you?

You don't have to give me an answer ,on the other hand no answer is an answer as well , sometimes stronger than anything else you may say .I almost forgot , I had a good talk with Wayne Yung , he is really nice person and polite person ...

 

[dlcox]

that just indicate you have never train in the subject.

Btw, yi is not mind but just an aspect of mind.

Ok, whatever, please tell me what system(s) of Qigong you have trained in, are qualified to teach and from whom you learned it. I certainly claim to be no expert, but have trained in Zhineng Qigong under Chen He Guan whom studied under the founder Pang Ming, in Bai He Qigong under Kuang Zui Han whom learned it from Wu Jian Hua whom learned it from the Bai He Pai ancestor Huang Lin Kai, and Shen Qi Gui Yuan Fa Qigong as passed on by Ruan Ji Yun. I have satisfied all the necessary requirements and have been given permission to pass on all. Also, in case you aren't aware Bai He Pai is considered an "Internal" method as well as is Yong Chun, both of which I am qualified to teach whether you agree or not. Your passive aggressive attitude and ethnocentrism aren't appreciated. Simply because I'm not Chinese doesn't mean I ignorant of the concept of "Qi". It is a worldly phenomenon known in various cultures as Prana, Pneuma, Vital Force, Ki, etc.and is not a unique concept known only to the Chinese. By the way, Yi is thought, concept, idea and is commonly used as a reference to the mind in TCMA. Also, what's the name of that museum again and the address? Certainly that book could clear up and put to rest all of this nonsense.

Have a good day Hendrik, I really am in no mood to argue semantics and play games. By all means continue to pass yourself off as an expert in all facets of the MA and promote your silliness, it was a simple informative post not directed towards you. The fact that you took offense to it and felt compelled to defend yourself speaks volumes about your insecurities and perceived inadequacies. I wish you well in your endeavors, god bless.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Please view the videos carefully. Details has been described in the videos.

I have viewed it carefully ..... twice now and I have the same questions and the "detail" and answers to those questions is not there. I will attempt to make this a productive discussion one last time

1) Are you saying sharp angle and saying that is locked and using to much muscle, or are you saying any sharp angle?

2) what about an angle that is relaxed as you find in the posture Single Whip (Dān biān, 单鞭) of Taijiquan

3) Internal movement: Are you saying it is only internal if you don’t have to move much or is it possible to still be internal and move a greater distance?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have made three videos above to adress clearly what I mean. If you can't understand what I mean. I suggest you go get a teacher who can teaches you the basic.

You like to keep go off topic on unrelated stuffs. Why should I answer you?

But I am not off topic on unrelated stuff so why shouldn't you answer?

 

[wtxs]

I have made three videos above to adress clearly what I mean. If you can't understand what I mean. I suggest you go get a teacher who can teaches you the basic.

The above post should have been written as:

"I have made three videos above to address clearly what I mean. If you all have problem of understand what I mean, may be because you all don't have the Chinese/oriental mentality."

That would surely pissy off lot more people ... it's not like you haven't done so.

BTW, I'm Chinese, born in china raised in the US. Like majority of the people here, we have been in MA for more than 40 years. I don't know what you're going on and on and on about 99.9% of the time.

 

[Hendrik]

What I adress is common internal art basic of ancient internal martial art. Not the type like zhineng qigong which is similar to a religion like and Bai He Pai a Tibetan type of art

As for who I train with , I don't like to drop name.

But, I adress the above issue in the video based on wck 1840 writing on internal wck, as evidence it link to emei 12 zhuang and has been verified by the gate keeper of emei 12 zhuang


And the following is one of my late sigung. Since i practice many internal art

So do I qualify to speak on internal art or qigong?


I hope people keep the discussion on technical instead of qualification .

Ok, whatever, please tell me what system(s) of Qigong you have trained in, are qualified to teach and from whom you learned it. I certainly claim to be no expert, but have trained in Zhineng Qigong under Chen He Guan whom studied under the founder Pang Ming, in Bai He Qigong under Kuang Zui Han whom learned it from Wu Jian Hua whom learned it from the Bai He Pai ancestor Huang Lin Kai, and Shen Qi Gui Yuan Fa Qigong as passed on by Ruan Ji Yun. I have satisfied all the necessary requirements and have been given permission to pass on all. Also, in case you aren't aware Bai He Pai is considered an "Internal" method as well as is Yong Chun, both of which I am qualified to teach whether you agree or not. Your passive aggressive attitude and ethnocentrism aren't appreciated. Simply because I'm not Chinese doesn't mean I ignorant of the concept of "Qi". It is a worldly phenomenon known in various cultures as Prana, Pneuma, Vital Force, Ki, etc.and is not a unique concept known only to the Chinese. By the way, Yi is thought, concept, idea and is commonly used as a reference to the mind in TCMA. Also, what's the name of that museum again and the address? Certainly that book could clear up and put to rest all of this nonsense.

Have a good day Hendrik, I really am in no mood to argue semantics and play games. By all means continue to pass yourself off as an expert in all facets of the MA and promote your silliness, it was a simple informative post not directed towards you. The fact that you took offense to it and felt compelled to defend yourself speaks volumes about your insecurities and perceived inadequacies. I wish you well in your endeavors, god bless.

 

[Hendrik]

You like to twist my word that is your problem.

Go get a sifu to study what you don't know. Thar simple, got nothing to do with Chinese / oriental or not.

And don't get this thread into racist direction

The above post should have been written as:

"I have made three videos above to address clearly what I mean. If you all have problem of understand what I mean, may be because you all don't have the Chinese/oriental mentality."

That would surely pissy off lot more people ... it's not like you haven't done so.

BTW, I'm Chinese, born in china raised in the US. Like majority of the people here, we have been in MA for more than 40 years. I don't know what you're going on and on and on about 99.9% of the time.

 

[Hendrik]

I have viewed it carefully ..... twice now and I have the same questions and the "detail" and answers to those questions is not there. I will attempt to make this a productive discussion one last time

1) Are you saying sharp angle and saying that is locked and using to much muscle, or are you saying any sharp angle?

2) what about an angle that is relaxed as you find in the posture Single Whip (Dān biān, 单鞭) of Taijiquan

3) Internal movement: Are you saying it is only internal if you don’t have to move much or is it possible to still be internal and move a greater distance?

Seriously,

Please get a sifu to explain to you what I mean in my videos. There are many things in it. If you can't understand my video. How can writing explain things better since word in writing is not as good as video

 

[Xue Sheng]

Seriously,

Please get a sifu to explain to you what I mean in my videos. There are many things in it. If you can't understand my video. How can writing explain things better since word in writing is not as good as video

You want to go here when I'm trying to make this a productive conversations but you prefer condescension and arrogance... ok... so be it.

I have had a sifu, more than one actually on this and I know for a fact I know more about this than you do and I am not master on the topic. I was trying to take the high road here and see if there was a missunderstanding based on a language issues but I see the issue is your arrogance and lack of knowledge on the topic that is the issue.

You have been around the web Hendrik and on every single web forum you have been on you have received the same response and you have responded with the same arrogance and had the same resistance to answering questions. You don't understand the views you are peddling and your respond, in all cases the same, with some reference to classical documents. But when there is someone else who has read them or understands the topic more than you pops up....well then you get defensive and start responding by attacking, telling them they need to get a teacher to explain and accusing them of being a self professed master, which is exactly the same thing you are doing... claiming to be a master, but you are not ...... I am not a master and I don't consider myself one but the one thing I am sure of is that I know more about the topic than you do, I was willing to discuss this to see if there was a misunderstanding but there isn't.

So please get a sifu to explain to you what you mean in your videos. There are many things in them you don't understand in your video......seriously you need to get a proper sifu on the topic, stop trying to teach yourself by reading books and get over yourself and maybe, just maybe you'll learn something.

Now you are wasting my time and you are not worth it

 

[wtxs]

You like to twist my word that is your problem.

Go get a sifu to study what you don't know. Thar simple, got nothing to do with Chinese / oriental or not.

And don't get this thread into racist direction

Implication of racism is your doing.

In order to understand the ancient Chinese or WC internal aspects, you first have to learn from an knowledgeable person, he/her knowledge is taught by he/her teacher. Trace the lineage back through time, the founder is not an occidental.

Bites of knowledge get left out or lost over time is an fact, what you and others (with exceptions) know is fragmented. To know and understand the real stuff is hundreds of years back in time ... possible that you are an time traveler?

Telling people here to look for an "qualify Sifu" to learn from means looks for an old Chinese mummy ... all can you learn is that the "internals" are long gone.

 

[dlcox]

What I adress is common internal art basic of ancient internal martial art. Not the type like zhineng qigong which is similar to a religion like and Bai He Pai a Tibetan type of art

As for who I train with , I don't like to drop name.

But, I adress the above issue in the video based on wck 1840 writing on internal wck, as evidence it link to emei 12 zhuang and has been verified by the gate keeper of emei 12 zhuang


And the following is one of my late sigung. Since i practice many internal art

So do I qualify to speak on internal art or qigong?


I hope people keep the discussion on technical instead of qualification .

I believe you are very misinformed concerning the Qigong methods I have studied, Zhineng is medical, health maintenance and healing Qigong, Bai He Qigong covers martial, religious, health maintenance and healing. Shen Qi Gui Yuan Fa is for health maintenance.

Could you please explain to me in simple, straight forward terms exactly what is common internal art basic of ancient internal martial art? How does older Qigong and "Internal" art differ from their modern counterparts? Is it simply because they are supposedly older and therefore correct?

I do not want to delve too deep into the Emei 12 Zhuang issue and the manipulation of Fu Wei Zhong concerning the forged Quan Jue, best not to bring that up as authentication of your "Theories". It's a rabbit hole that will quickly degrade the conversation and no one here will tolerate the banter or deception.

I did watch the video and seen some very interesting things, such as the very obvious and repeated use of the 6 basic exercises of Naropa & Niguma as propogated in Trul Khor of Tibet and Yantra Yoga of India. These are very ancient exercises. Interesting that you would denounce the Tibetan methods as incorrect for sustaining your "Theory" yet post a video of a Qigong method that was very obviously influenced by it.

Could you also explain to me how non-martial Qigong increases martial abilty better than martial Qigong? I don't seem to grasp your logic.

 

[Vajramusti]

You want to go here when I'm trying to make this a productive conversations but you prefer condescension and arrogance... ok... so be it.

I have had a sifu, more than one actually on this and I know for a fact I know more about this than you do and I am not master on the topic. I was trying to take the high road here and see if there was a missunderstanding based on a language issues but I see the issue is your arrogance and lack of knowledge on the topic that is the issue.

You have been around the web Hendrik and on every single web forum you have been on you have received the same response and you have responded with the same arrogance and had the same resistance to answering questions. You don't understand the views you are peddling and your respond, in all cases the same, with some reference to classical documents. But when there is someone else who has read them or understands the topic more than you pops up....well then you get defensive and start responding by attacking, telling them they need to get a teacher to explain and accusing them of being a self professed master, which is exactly the same thing you are doing... claiming to be a master, but you are not ...... I am not a master and I don't consider myself one but the one thing I am sure of is that I know more about the topic than you do, I was willing to discuss this to see if there was a misunderstanding but there isn't.

So please get a sifu to explain to you what you mean in your videos. There are many things in them you don't understand in your video......seriously you need to get a proper sifu on the topic, stop trying to teach yourself by reading books and get over yourself and maybe, just maybe you'll learn something.

Now you are wasting my time and you are not worth it

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sooner or later reasonable people have come to similar conclusions.

 

[Hendrik]

Why is it telling the truth is arrogance?

Or may be it is your ego which cannot accept the fact you don't have the training.


For example, you claim you study Taiji...etc.

However, you ask the question on single whip. Isn't it clear that what I mention in my video consistence with what Chen Man Ching wrote in his book on wrist and the hand of beauty?

Those are basic stuffs. If you are not expose to it. Then, you need a teacher who know to teach you. It is that simple . Even me I still study with different sifus to get educated.

If you think I am being arrogant , may be it is because you don't face reality of one needs a sifu to study

You want to go here when I'm trying to make this a productive conversations but you prefer condescension and arrogance... ok... so be it.

I have had a sifu, more than one actually on this and I know for a fact I know more about this than you do and I am not master on the topic. I was trying to take the high road here and see if there was a missunderstanding based on a language issues but I see the issue is your arrogance and lack of knowledge on the topic that is the issue.

You have been around the web Hendrik and on every single web forum you have been on you have received the same response and you have responded with the same arrogance and had the same resistance to answering questions. You don't understand the views you are peddling and your respond, in all cases the same, with some reference to classical documents. But when there is someone else who has read them or understands the topic more than you pops up....well then you get defensive and start responding by attacking, telling them they need to get a teacher to explain and accusing them of being a self professed master, which is exactly the same thing you are doing... claiming to be a master, but you are not ...... I am not a master and I don't consider myself one but the one thing I am sure of is that I know more about the topic than you do, I was willing to discuss this to see if there was a misunderstanding but there isn't.

So please get a sifu to explain to you what you mean in your videos. There are many things in them you don't understand in your video......seriously you need to get a proper sifu on the topic, stop trying to teach yourself by reading books and get over yourself and maybe, just maybe you'll learn something.

Now you are wasting my time and you are not worth it

 

[Hendrik]

It is in my YouTube above. That is the common denominator of ancient Chinese internal art.


As for your trying to link things with tibertian art, I don't think the tibertian art has the same practice with the Chinese based on evidence.


This is Tibetan art mixing some Chinese art. It is not the same design as ancient Chinese art which deal with the Chinese 12 medirians

I believe you are very misinformed concerning the Qigong methods I have studied, Zhineng is medical, health maintenance and healing Qigong, Bai He Qigong covers martial, religious, health maintenance and healing. Shen Qi Gui Yuan Fa is for health maintenance.

Could you please explain to me in simple, straight forward terms exactly what is common internal art basic of ancient internal martial art? How does older Qigong and "Internal" art differ from their modern counterparts? Is it simply because they are supposedly older and therefore correct?

I do not want to delve too deep into the Emei 12 Zhuang issue and the manipulation of Fu Wei Zhong concerning the forged Quan Jue, best not to bring that up as authentication of your "Theories". It's a rabbit hole that will quickly degrade the conversation and no one here will tolerate the banter or deception.

I did watch the video and seen some very interesting things, such as the very obvious and repeated use of the 6 basic exercises of Naropa & Niguma as propogated in Trul Khor of Tibet and Yantra Yoga of India. These are very ancient exercises. Interesting that you would denounce the Tibetan methods as incorrect for sustaining your "Theory" yet post a video of a Qigong method that was very obviously influenced by it.

Could you also explain to me how non-martial Qigong increases martial abilty better than martial Qigong? I don't seem to grasp your logic.

 

[Hendrik]

One always can study historical records from multi sources and direction to find out what is likely.

Nothing come out of thin air.


I never bring up race but you.

Implication of racism is your doing.

In order to understand the ancient Chinese or WC internal aspects, you first have to learn from an knowledgeable person, he/her knowledge is taught by he/her teacher. Trace the lineage back through time, the founder is not an occidental.

Bites of knowledge get left out or lost over time is an fact, what you and others (with exceptions) know is fragmented. To know and understand the real stuff is hundreds of years back in time ... possible that you are an time traveler?

Telling people here to look for an "qualify Sifu" to learn from means looks for an old Chinese mummy ... all can you learn is that the "internals" are long gone.

 

[tshadowchaser]

People please respect others opinions. Right or wrong we all have a right to them.
Helpful dialog instead of everyone say the other guy has no knowledge would be nice.
This could be an interesting thread to those that do not do internal arts if individual ideas where discussed.
Once again PLEASE PLAY NICE