Internal art observation

There are multiple definitions of what constitutes an internal art as opposed to an external that range from a type of training to religions based on alleged Taoist Origin as compared to Shaolin origin.... it has also been used as a political statement against the Qing (see Epitaph for Wang Zhengnan. 1669)

One of the best defintions I have come across is "Waijia trains to increase natural human ability and Neijia trains to change rather than increase natural ability"...but if you really look at what that means...they are the same...if you increase you change if you change you also increase

Basically it is not all that important a discussion, they all end up the same place it trained properly so the only real answer to such things is shut up and train
 
The issue often is people who has zero internal training likes to play expert as know it all Internal master

Nope internal and external practice in Chinese martial art doesn't end up in the same place.

The western cardio type of training and the Chinese sink qi to Dan Dian type training are two totally different type of training and development
 
The issue often is people who has zero internal training likes to play expert as know it all Internal master

Nope internal and external practice in Chinese martial art doesn't end up in the same place.

The western cardio type of training and the Chinese sink qi to Dan Dian type training are two totally different type of training and development
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
True!!!
 
Spams?

Lol


I am presenting the facts of ancient Chinese martial art so that people like you who obviously doesn't know the topic can no longer mislead others.

Face it you don't know what I am talking about and never have the training.

Stay on topic . You would not like it if I have to pull out your utube or photo to analyze them in the open forum to show what it has and what it doesnt

I have given you face since kfo trying to be nice please not push my limit.



---------------------------------------------------------------------Problems with two different posts-
1. Hendrik spams endlessly with his perspectives which cherry picks through known wing chun conceptrs and sells it with his own labels- snake body, prior,
force flow etc. again and again and again... making a laughing stock out of wing chun in many circles..
.
 
Last edited:
Spams?

Lol


I am presenting the facts of ancient Chinese martial art so that people like you who obviously doesn't know the topic can no longer mislead others.

Face it you don't know what I am talking about and never have the training.

Stay on topic . You would not like it if I have to pull out your utube or photo to analyze them in the open forum to show what it has and what it doesnt

I have given you face since kfo trying to be nice please not push my limit.
-------------------------------------------------

A strange post.
 
Spams?

I am presenting the facts of ancient Chinese martial art so that people like you who obviously doesn't know the topic can no longer mislead others.

.
What "ancient" Chinese martial art did you train and how long? I am practicing real Chinese internal arts , Chen Tai Chi and Zonghe Quan (and wing chun for a long long time), nothing you say is new, original, not even high level . Anyway , what about that museum address ? Your friend Jim refuses to answer although you said he knows the address and he will share it
 
The issue often is people who has zero internal training likes to play expert as know it all Internal master

Nope internal and external practice in Chinese martial art doesn't end up in the same place.

The western cardio type of training and the Chinese sink qi to Dan Dian type training are two totally different type of training and development

I am talking specifically Chinese marital arts, (think Shaolin vs Wudang as an example) ..not western boxing so talking specifically CMA

Nope internal and external practice in Chinese martial art doesn't end up in the same place.

You are wrong, they end up in the same place after years of training in Chinese Martial Arts
 
1. You told me I was wrong. And I reply you never being train in Qi and Jin . That is not insulting you but state my point of view.

2. What did I based on to make that comment? Chinese classic writing in internal art. You certainly not train that way ,
otherwise you would not say internal and external end up in the same place .

3. There are common denominator on internal Kung training on ancient China martial art, be it wck from the south or xing yi from the north. There are clear technical signature differences which could be traced. Thus, lineages, the name of grandmasters, who is ones sifu , how long one train .....Doesn't replace the facts or content of training.
 
Last edited:
1. You told me I was wrong. And I reply you never being train in Qi and Jin . That is not insulting you but state my point of view.

And you are wrong there too, I have been trained. But I fully believe you do not understand Qi or Jin

2. What did I based on to make that comment? Chinese classic writing in internal art. You certainly not train that way ,otherwise you would not say internal and external end up in the same place .

I told you in the PM how I came to that, and that it was training, with teachers, and a TCM Doctor and translations of classical writings too as well as study of the history of it. And you certainly may have read some books, but you do not understand what you read. If you did you would see the silliness of the delineation and the elitism you seem to have about Neijia is nothing new, I had it once too, early on in my training, believe me, you will get over it.

3. There are common denominator on internal Kung training on ancient China martial art, be it wck from the south or xing yi from the north. There are clear technical signature differences which could be traced. Thus, lineages, the name of grandmasters, who is ones sifu , how long one train .....Doesn't replace the facts or content of training.

There are common denominators in internal trained but those show up later in external training too. You talk of Chinese classical writings, ok here is one for you from classical Chinese writing...internal goes to external and external goes to internal.... this is ONLY if trained properly and most do not train it properly. But none of this does not replace the fact that you are incorrect about it in some places.

You have not address any other statement or question I have asked in a public post or in PM you have only addressed this one. You have said that difference between internal and external is based on distance of movement and that is plain wrong you have talked about angle of joint being an issue you have said intent is bad and absolutely all of this is wrong but I wanted to discuss it, not argue not out right tell you how far off the mark you are I even tried this in PM in order to avoid a public response but you brought it here. You views on this are interesting and at times refreshing but in places you are simply not right and I am basing this on your videos.

Joint angle all by it self, is not an issue. Tenseness in the muscle and the joints is an issue. The issuing of fajin is not limited in it range, intent is INCREDIBLY important in all of this, thinking is important in all of this, to much thinking is a hindrance this is why I have, in multiple posts brought up Yi, Qi, Li and you ignored those and only came back at this point.

I was on your side at the beginning of this, trying to understand and some made since. some didn't and some was just plain wrong.

Is Wing Chun an internal art....who cares...shut up and train... I simply do not get where the need to be a neijia art had anything to do with it. Heck look at the history of internal vs external and you will see it does not even become a major issue until the Epitaph for Wang Zhengnan (1669) and it had much more to do with a political statement against the Qing than anything else and it did not even mention taijiquan, Baguazhang, Xingyiquan or for that matter Wing Chun. GO further forward in Chinese history to Chen Fake and he did not even care if you called it taijiquan, all he knew was it was his families style and he was darn good at it

Is Wing Chun a Neijia art..... who cares, shut up and train..... but by all definitions form classical Chinese study of it, including the history of Neijia and Waijia...it is not

Do I see a lot of internal in (小念头) Siu Nim Tao, heck yeah, to me it is one of the best forms for teaching the proper use of Qi and issuance of fajin.... there is that pesky yi, qi. li again with a side of Sandao (not sanda or sanshou but sandao)

Next I could list all those that disagree with you on this if you like and all are classically trained in CMA, some published and some still alive... but frankly I see no point in going further, you don't want to discuss, you want to tell us all about it and we are not to question....

再见
 
Why made a simple question complex ?

Just describe what is Qi and Jin training and development with clear definition. That's all

You can continuous the I believe you don't know type of ego stuffs forever and it never goes anywhere.







And you are wrong there too, I have been trained. But I fully believe you do not understand Qi or Jin



I told you in the PM how I came to that, and that it was training, with teachers, and a TCM Doctor and translations of classical writings too as well as study of the history of it. And you certainly may have read some books, but you do not understand what you read. If you did you would see the silliness of the delineation and the elitism you seem to have about Neijia is nothing new, I had it once too, early on in my training, believe me, you will get over it.



There are common denominators in internal trained but those show up later in external training too. You talk of Chinese classical writings, ok here is one for you from classical Chinese writing...internal goes to external and external goes to internal.... this is ONLY if trained properly and most do not train it properly. But none of this does not replace the fact that you are incorrect about it in some places.

You have not address any other statement or question I have asked in a public post or in PM you have only addressed this one. You have said that difference between internal and external is based on distance of movement and that is plain wrong you have talked about angle of joint being an issue you have said intent is bad and absolutely all of this is wrong but I wanted to discuss it, not argue not out right tell you how far off the mark you are I even tried this in PM in order to avoid a public response but you brought it here. You views on this are interesting and at times refreshing but in places you are simply not right and I am basing this on your videos.

Joint angle all by it self, is not an issue. Tenseness in the muscle and the joints is an issue. The issuing of fajin is not limited in it range, intent is INCREDIBLY important in all of this, thinking is important in all of this, to much thinking is a hindrance this is why I have, in multiple posts brought up Yi, Qi, Li and you ignored those and only came back at this point.

I was on your side at the beginning of this, trying to understand and some made since. some didn't and some was just plain wrong.

Is Wing Chun an internal art....who cares...shut up and train... I simply do not get where the need to be a neijia art had anything to do with it. Heck look at the history of internal vs external and you will see it does not even become a major issue until the Epitaph for Wang Zhengnan (1669) and it had much more to do with a political statement against the Qing than anything else and it did not even mention taijiquan, Baguazhang, Xingyiquan or for that matter Wing Chun. GO further forward in Chinese history to Chen Fake and he did not even care if you called it taijiquan, all he knew was it was his families style and he was darn good at it

Is Wing Chun a Neijia art..... who cares, shut up and train..... but by all definitions form classical Chinese study of it, including the history of Neijia and Waijia...it is not

Do I see a lot of internal in (小念头) Siu Nim Tao, heck yeah, to me it is one of the best forms for teaching the proper use of Qi and issuance of fajin.... there is that pesky yi, qi. li again with a side of Sandao (not sanda or sanshou but sandao)

Next I could list all those that disagree with you on this if you like and all are classically trained in CMA, some published and some still alive... but frankly I see no point in going further, you don't want to discuss, you want to tell us all about it and we are not to question....

再见
 
Why made a simple question complex ?

Just describe what is Qi and Jin training and development with clear definition. That's all

You can continuous the I believe you don't know type of ego stuffs forever and it never goes anywhere.

Not ego my friend, I honestly believe you don't really understand, I believe you are working on it, but your not there quite yet.

And what simple question have I made complex? Please enlighten me, since you have not yet answered any of the simple questions I previously asked you
 
Let me give you a hint about something you obviously do not understand , "internal" can be "hard" and "soft"

hahaha....I love it! Well said Zuti!
I guess it stands to reason then, that "external" can be "soft" and "hard" also!?

All you dudes are way more knowledgeable than I am; however, IMHO, knowing how your body moves, understanding simple physics, ranges of motion of the joints, how the joints/tendons/ligaments/muscles function in the development of martial attributes such as speed, power, force, pushing, pulling, etc...and...most importantly...one must completely understand Yin and Yang and how it applies to their personal expression of combat art. PS: do let us know what you get that museum address! ;)
 
Why made a simple question complex ?

Just describe what is Qi and Jin training and development with clear definition. That's all

You can continuous the I believe you don't know type of ego stuffs forever and it never goes anywhere.
Can you give a clear definition of" Qi" . What is"qi" exactly ?
 
Not ego my friend, I honestly believe you don't really understand, I believe you are working on it, but your not there quite yet.

And what simple question have I made complex? Please enlighten me, since you have not yet answered any of the simple questions I previously asked you


1. Anyone can have their believe . That got nothing to do with facts.

2. Anyone who train in internal art knows it can't be external training.

3. You and I are not the standard reference. Ancient Chinese documents and practice are. Your description on internal and external doesn't fit the traditional practice.
 
You live in Taiwan and let news paper there interview you as expert Chinese martial artist. You are the hot shot , so tell me .
Like usual , same tactics in order to avoid giving an answer . I asked you a very simple question , what is "qi", there is no right or wrong answer to this question, just your opinion . I am interested how you explain "qi" to your self, if you actually have an explanation . It is totally ok, this kind of behavior clearly shows level of your knowledge .
 
Back
Top