How Wing Chun is supposed to look...in my book

Steve said:
Anymore, I'd just report the post of its a direct insult to me. If it's a critique of Bjj I would either ignore it or respond to the critique. There's been plenty of bagging on Bjj lately and it really doesn't bother me at all.


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Yeah that's cool
 
ballen0351 said:
Says who? I mix all my arts up and use what I like at that time. Just because I don't play games with it doesn't mean it's not MMA
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Everyone here has said MMA is "just a sport" and of course it has those rules that render mma impotent on the street in your book. Now you're switching the definition to suit your need. You're also attempting to demean the sport of mma by referring to it as a "game". We could call chi sau "patty cake" but that's insulting and I don't agree with it but many in the mma "fanboy" community do use that term to refer to chi sau, it's petty. despite your claims no one here has insulted you or wc but you're get very close to outright insulting mma, let's try to keep it a reasonable conversation?
 
Tony Dismukes said:
Suppose an optimum set of unarmed tactics against a skilled puncher gets you a 90% chance of success, but an optimum set of unarmed tactics against a knife-wielding attacker gets you only a 30% chance of success.

Now suppose martial art A cuts out a bunch of techniques that are effective against a puncher, but dangerous to try against an attacker with a knife. (clinching, covering like a boxer, etc). That might drop art A's effectiveness vs a skilled puncher down to 50%, while leaving its effectiveness vs the knife at 30%.

Meanwhile, martial art B keeps all those techniques and thus manages 90% effectiveness against a puncher, but success against the knife drops down to 10%.

This gives you a situation where martial art A is superior for knife defense, art B is superior for punch defense, but A still has a higher success against the punch than against the knife
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This is exactly the point I was attempting to make. Well put
 
Mephisto said:
The in and out approach with a weapon is a wise and valid approach. You move in to kill, if the opponents defends or counters you move out angle and enter again. It's standarn boxing and if you train in a solid FMA that draws from boxing you probably do it. You can have the classical "one punch one kill" mentality but reality is quite different and you must react accordingly. I'm not talking about dancing with a weapon although you see a fair amount of that in a lot of FMA sparring which may be a valid approach as well but it's not my approach. Evasion is a valuable strategy. My point is you said boxing is not good against unarmed opponent and presented wc as a better alternative. But in you admission your FMA uses a boxing approach as do many FMA systems, so perhaps you are wrong on this one. I will add that there is quite a bit of trapping in FMA so wc may have a place there but you need a strong evasive game and in and out game to pull it off. I use trapping a lot to enter and get a solid shot but I pick and choose where to apply it, I don't try to trap every strike weapon or not.
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If Someone moves in with a knife how are you going to defend? Just curious? You gong to block? You going to bob and weave?. I highly doubt it.

I am friends with a guy that got attacked by two guys one had a knife. They were trying to rob him. He ended up taking the knife and killing one. He suffered massive lacerations and puncher wounds. I asked how he took the knife and how it unfolded. He told me as they wrestled for the knife he punched the guy in throat. The guy released his grip for a second an he took the knife killing the one guy and wounding the other. But he was stabbed and sliced repeatedly in the process. At no time wAs there disengagement . He told me if he could have disengaged he would of ran. Your "if he counters and than you angle and reengage" is BS. If he counters and you disengage. You run, plain and simple. I have seen this guys scars on his back, stomach,legs, hands and arms. It's horrific! He still has pAin and issue from it. It happened 20 years ago. So don't get weapon combat twisted. It's not like the movies. It's real life and scary.
 
Mephisto said:
Hmmm where do I start? First I'm not going to pull a stick or knife on you, this is just an Internet discussion don't worry. Also the idea of a weapons duel where you have time to draw a gun is not realistic. The whole idea of a weapons duel in general isn't very realistic in most modern societies but we still train it. The in and out approach with a weapon is a wise and valid approach. You move in to kill, if the opponents defends or counters you move out angle and enter again. It's standarn boxing and if you train in a solid FMA that draws from boxing you probably do it. You can have the classical "one punch one kill" mentality but reality is quite different and you must react accordingly. I'm not talking about dancing with a weapon although you see a fair amount of that in a lot of FMA sparring which may be a valid approach as well but it's not my approach. Evasion is a valuable strategy. My point is you said boxing is not good against unarmed opponent and presented wc as a better alternative. But in you admission your FMA uses a boxing approach as do many FMA systems, so perhaps you are wrong on this one. I will add that there is quite a bit of trapping in FMA so wc may have a place there but you need a strong evasive game and in and out game to pull it off. I use trapping a lot to enter and get a solid shot but I pick and choose where to apply it, I don't try to trap every strike weapon or not.
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Aah, yeah, like duh! I wasn't saying you were literally going to attack me.
 
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My FMA coach is from a boxing background. But He still teaches the art direct and to the point. No fancy crap.. He knows the guy that got stabbed too. We both worked with him. So it's not some fantasy story i just made up.

Funny thing is when he showed me the scars. I was like holy sh@?. I asked so how'd you get the knife? Expecting some fancy elaborate move. It was completely to the contrary.
 
Jake104 said:
If Someone moves in with a knife how are you going to defend? Just curious? You gong to block? You going to bob and weave?. I highly doubt it.

I am friends with a guy that got attacked by two guys one had a knife. They were trying to rob him. He ended up taking the knife and killing one. He suffered massive lacerations and puncher wounds. I asked how he took the knife and how it unfolded. He told me as they wrestled for the knife he punched the guy in throat. The guy released his grip for a second an he took the knife killing the one guy and wounding the other. But he was stabbed and sliced repeatedly in the process. At no time wAs there disengagement . He told me if he could have disengaged he would of ran. Your "if he counters and than you angle and reengage" is BS. If he counters and you disengage. You run, plain and simple. I have seen this guys scars on his back, stomach,legs, hands and arms. It's horrific! He still has pAin and issue from it. It happened 20 years ago. So don't get weapon combat twisted. It's not like the movies. It's real life and scary.
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I read somewhere that in a knife fight, the difference between the winner and loser is often that the loser dies right away and the winner dies from his wounds later.
 
Steve said:
I read somewhere that in a knife fight, the difference between the winner and loser is often that the loser dies right away and the winner dies from his wounds later.
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Well this guy ( his name is Rick) told me he drove himself to the ER and was literally dripping blood on the floor before any one noticed. He also said that since it was knife wounds they did not give him any thing for pain. So he suffered through the whole thing wide awake. No cell phones back then. So that's why he drove himself. He was an arena football player and was jogging early in the morning when he was assaulted. Like I said he killed one and the other got like 100+ years in jail. They tried the other guy for his friends death
 
Jake104 said:
If Someone moves in with a knife how are you going to defend? Just curious? You gong to block? You going to bob and weave?. I highly doubt it.

I am friends with a guy that got attacked by two guys one had a knife. They were trying to rob him. He ended up taking the knife and killing one. He suffered massive lacerations and puncher wounds. I asked how he took the knife and how it unfolded. He told me as they wrestled for the knife he punched the guy in throat. The guy released his grip for a second an he took the knife killing the one guy and wounding the other. But he was stabbed and sliced repeatedly in the process. At no time wAs there disengagement . He told me if he could have disengaged he would of ran. Your "if he counters and than you angle and reengage" is BS. If he counters and you disengage. You run, plain and simple. I have seen this guys scars on his back, stomach,legs, hands and arms. It's horrific! He still has pAin and issue from it. It happened 20 years ago. So don't get weapon combat twisted. It's not like the movies. It's real life and scary.
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How I react would depend entirely on the attack, head movement is certainly a possibility for a high line attack. Your friends anecdote is no more special than any other story on the Internet to me.

disengaging is certainly an option and the distance for the disengagement may depend depending on the location and surroundings, obviously you run if you can. Also your view of disengaging may be different from mine, a simple slide back can create an evasion and an opening to re enter and counter. But this thread isn't about that, it's about why mma is just a game and useless in the $treetz.
 
Mephisto said:
How I react would depend entirely on the attack, head movement is certainly a possibility for a high line attack. Your friends anecdote is no more special than any other story on the Internet to me.

disengaging is certainly an option and the distance for the disengagement may depend depending on the location and surroundings, obviously you run if you can. Also your view of disengaging may be different from mine, a simple slide back can create an evasion and an opening to re enter and counter. But this thread isn't about that, it's about why mma is just a game and useless in the $treetz.
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Actually it's about Hawkins Cheung having nice Wing Chun. For your sake I hope you are right or you are never put in that situation.
 
J W said:
Actually, it was about a Hawkins Cheung demo video, or at least it was supposed to be.

This thread has turned into a complete train wreck. Why can't I look away!
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IK! Last night it was at page 7. Today I look and it's at 13. I need to catch up!
 
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