How Wing Chun is supposed to look...in my book

[Reeksta]

correct. So from a mma perspective you don't see many mmaers become professional boxers. Because their boxing is not good enough.

I absolutely agree

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There's no reason an exponent cannot "turn off" the self defense mindset when engaged in a non-life threatening situation.

When your fist meets on your opponent's face, whether it's "sport" or "self-defense", the result will be the same, your opponent will be down under your knee.

 

[Hanzou]

I didn't ask you to paraphrase me. I asked you to quote where I actually said that a wing chun practitioner would find it easier to defend themselves from an armed opponent than an unarmed one. I will ask one last time: are you able to do this, yes or no?

Well you're in luck, because I'm now posting from a desktop;

For example, my sifu dislikes when I slip punches and duck underneath for a takedown. His logic is that, if the opponent had a knife that I hadn't seen, then he could easily slice me with it as he retracted his arm. This makes sense from a self defence perspective but if I'm limiting my responses in this way, then in a situation where there's no risk of weapons or multiple opponents, I'm naturally at a disadvantage compared to someone who has trained without limiting their options in this way and who has trained specifically for the situation we are currently in.
It's a compromise.

So essentially your WC training revolves around fighting armed opponents and multiple opponents, over countering the attacks of a skilled unarmed fighter. AKA Self Defense vs Competition Fighting.

By that logic, you're arguing that a WC fighter is better at taking down armed assailants on the street than skilled unarmed brawlers in the ring.

 

[Reeksta]

Well you're in luck, because I'm now posting from a desktop;



So essentially your WC training revolves around fighting armed opponents and multiple opponents, over countering the attacks of a skilled unarmed fighter. AKA Self Defense vs Competition Fighting.

By that logic, you're arguing that a WC fighter is better at taking down armed assailants on the street than skilled unarmed brawlers in the ring.

Nowhere in that passage do I say that a wing chun practitioner would find it easier to defend themselves against an armed opponent than an unarmed one

 

[ballen0351]

i did not post on whether wing chun makes people happy. I am sure it does.

but then the conversation turned to why you don't see it in mma which interests me. It is not about proving anything is greater or lesser than anything else.

and i will repeat this for the adult table.

you do see wing chun concepts in mma.

The conversation turned that way because there are 2 of you that can't leave people in other styles alone with out the "well if your art is so good why is it not in MMA" it has happened on half the styles here so far either you or your little friend. It's like digital dojo storming but you can do it from the safety of your keyboards. Who gives a crap if WC is or isn't good for the MMA. Give it a rest.

 

[Hanzou]

Nowhere in that passage do I say that a wing chun practitioner would find it easier to defend themselves against an armed opponent than an unarmed one

You said that your sifu is training you to be prepared for weapons and multiple attackers, thus impeding your ability to be prepared for competitive fighting. You also said that some styles are better for 1:1/ competitive fighting, and other styles are better for fighting in less controlled environments. By your insinuations, I'm assuming that you're stating that Wing Chun falls on the latter half of the equation.

 

[drop bear]

Well you're in luck, because I'm now posting from a desktop;



So essentially your WC training revolves around fighting armed opponents and multiple opponents, over countering the attacks of a skilled unarmed fighter. AKA Self Defense vs Competition Fighting.

By that logic, you're arguing that a WC fighter is better at taking down armed assailants on the street than skilled unarmed brawlers in the ring.

here is where that logic actually starts to work. A system that is dedicated to defending an armed assailant has to sacrifice a lot effective strategies against an unarmed one.

eg.
the boxing cover system is quicker and more effective than wing chuns. Because your hands don't leave your head much. They don't create the gaps and openings. But you cant block a knife with a boxing cover because you will get your arms cut off.

 

[drop bear]

The conversation turned that way because there are 2 of you that can't leave people in other styles alone with out the "well if your art is so good why is it not in MMA" it has happened on half the styles here so far either you or your little friend. It's like digital dojo storming but you can do it from the safety of your keyboards. Who gives a crap if WC is or isn't good for the MMA. Give it a rest.

i assume everybody that is posting on that topic gives a crap. Otherwise why would they be posting?

 

[Reeksta]

By your insinuations, I'm assuming that you're stating . . .

Well this is the problem isn't it. How about just admitting that I didn't say it

 

[Tez3]

The conversation turned that way because there are 2 of you that can't leave people in other styles alone with out the "well if your art is so good why is it not in MMA" it has happened on half the styles here so far either you or your little friend. It's like digital dojo storming but you can do it from the safety of your keyboards. Who gives a crap if WC is or isn't good for the MMA. Give it a rest.

It's not a surprise that nearly all the threads that start out well end up being locked because of the 'MMA is the best, the rest is crap' factor. Expecting this one to be locked very shortly.

 

[Mephisto]

The conversation turned that way because there are 2 of you that can't leave people in other styles alone with out the "well if your art is so good why is it not in MMA" it has happened on half the styles here so far either you or your little friend. It's like digital dojo storming but you can do it from the safety of your keyboards. Who gives a crap if WC is or isn't good for the MMA. Give it a rest.

That's my point, who cares? Certain arts aren't cut out for handling experienced fighters but they'll do just fine for the majority of the untrained offenders out there. I think there are just a small handful of arts that aren't as practical as many think they are. A wc guy will have trouble with a boxer, MMA player, or kick boxer, or even a kyukoshin karate practitioner for that matter. If you can't use your punching and kicking art to defeat skilled punchers and kickers than maybe you should re analyze your approach. The problem is the wc guys have just given up and said "well MMA is just a sport" "we train for the deadly streets", when you could just say that maybe some day it will happen, you've already convinced yourself that wc really isn't good enough to be used in the ring. I think it could happen with the right approach. As was alluded to earlier a boxer with boxing alone would not be successful in the ring. If boxing weren't a popular sport you'd hear the sport vs street argument there. But boxers admit the holes in their game and learn to grapple. A few wc guys have tried this approach and they haven't gotten praises and pats on the back from skeptics but they are working on it. It will take generations of refinement to apply it to the ring but one day we may see it. You can try to be part of the solution yourself and show the practicality of your system or you can continue with compliant demos and write MMA off as "just sport".

 

[J W]

Spot on post!
WC is only the latest style to have received the 'it doesn't work in the cage so it's pants' treatment, I imagine when this thread has finally run out of steam, the next style will have already been picked out for the 'versus MMA' treatment. We've already had Aikido trashed, funnily enough using all the same arguments. Bets on for the next style to be bashed?

Thanks, Tez. Well if that's the trend, then I guess we'll be at it a while, considering most martial arts don't make much of an appearance in MMA. Let's do Tai Chi next! Or Bagua! Capoeria? Systema? Krav Maga? How about Kajukenbo...

I didn't ask you to paraphrase me. I asked you to quote where I actually said that a wing chun practitioner would find it easier to defend themselves from an armed opponent than an unarmed one. I will ask one last time: are you able to do this, yes or no?

Hey Reeksta, I understand you're fairly new to Wing Chun, and from your posts that I've read you seem to be picking up the concepts pretty quickly. If you're going to stick with WC for a while, though, you'll quickly realize that it has its fair share of critics; you'll tire yourself out trying to defend WC from all of its various detractors. Best to let the noise fade out and concentrate on more productive discussions.

Between all of the infighting and bickering between lineages that we warned you about in that other thread and all of the criticism we get from our detractors, a Wing Chun guy could spend all of his time arguing if that's what he'd like to do.

Here is a short vid with defending against a knife. Anyway, I would think that most MA will have some kind of weapon defense.

I don't know about all of that knee to the elbow stuff. Seems a bit indirect to me, and would likely have a low success rate. Why not just go straight for that kick to the leg?

 

[Tez3]

here is where that logic actually starts to work. A system that is dedicated to defending an armed assailant has to sacrifice a lot effective strategies against an unarmed one.

eg.
the boxing cover system is quicker and more effective than wing chuns. Because your hands don't leave your head much. They don't create the gaps and openings. But you cant block a knife with a boxing cover because you will get your arms cut off.

Why would any system wanting to be defending an armed assailant?

 

[drop bear]

Why would any system wanting to be defending an armed assailant?

in the sense that it is not correct grammar?

i defend a punch. I defend an attack i defend an armed assailant.

or are you wondering why i don't want to get stabbed.

 

[ballen0351]

That's my point, who cares? Certain arts aren't cut out for handling experienced fighters but they'll do just fine for the majority of the untrained offenders out there. I think there are just a small handful of arts that aren't as practical as many think they are. A wc guy will have trouble with a boxer, MMA player, or kick boxer, or even a kyukoshin karate practitioner for that matter. If you can't use your punching and kicking art to defeat skilled punchers and kickers than maybe you should re analyze your approach. The problem is the wc guys have just given up and said "well MMA is just a sport" "we train for the deadly streets", when you could just say that maybe some day it will happen, you've already convinced yourself that wc really isn't good enough to be used in the ring. I think it could happen with the right approach. As was alluded to earlier a boxer with boxing alone would not be successful in the ring. If boxing weren't a popular sport you'd hear the sport vs street argument there. But boxers admit the holes in their game and learn to grapple. A few wc guys have tried this approach and they haven't gotten praises and pats on the back from skeptics but they are working on it. It will take generations of refinement to apply it to the ring but one day we may see it. You can try to be part of the solution yourself and show the practicality of your system or you can continue with compliant demos and write MMA off as "just sport".

No art and all arts are ment for Experienced fighters. If one art was designed to match up against experienced fighters there would be no winners or loosers. The winner of a fight had less to do with style and more about the person

 

[Tez3]

in the sense that it is not correct grammar?

i defend a punch. I defend an attack i defend an armed assailant.

or are you wondering why i don't want to get stabbed.

Grammar has nothing to do with it. You are saying that you are defending an armed assailant. You are saying you defend an attack, that's just nonsense. Nobody does that.

 

[Reeksta]

Hey Reeksta, I understand you're fairly new to Wing Chun, and from your posts that I've read you seem to be picking up the concepts pretty quickly. If you're going to stick with WC for a while, though, you'll quickly realize that it has its fair share of critics; you'll tire yourself out trying to defend WC from all of its various detractors. Best to let the noise fade out and concentrate on more productive discussions.

Thank you for the advice; it would certainly seem to be correct. I'll try to save my energies for more positive discussion and bite my tongue a bit more in future

 

[Transk53]

You know what, I am new to Wing Chun, but why does it have to so argumentative. Look to some discussion with Wing Chun about Wing Chun

 

[Mephisto]

Why would any system wanting to be defending an armed assailant?

I'm not sure I understand this, are you questioning why a system would teach an unarmed person to defend against an armed attack such as a knife?

No art and all arts are ment for Experienced fighters. If one art was designed to match up against experienced fighters there would be no winners or loosers. The winner of a fight had less to do with style and more about the person

Again, I'm not sure I understand this. If you train an art that spars you are training to defend an attack from an experienced fighter. Any sportive system like judo for example trains you how to defend against a skilled fighter. If you can handle a skilled fighter you can handle an unskilled fighter but the reverse is not true.

 

[Transk53]

Thanks, Tez. Well if that's the trend, then I guess we'll be at it a while, considering most martial arts don't make much of an appearance in MMA. Let's do Tai Chi next! Or Bagua! Capoeria? Systema? Krav Maga? How about Kajukenbo...



Hey Reeksta, I understand you're fairly new to Wing Chun, and from your posts that I've read you seem to be picking up the concepts pretty quickly. If you're going to stick with WC for a while, though, you'll quickly realize that it has its fair share of critics; you'll tire yourself out trying to defend WC from all of its various detractors. Best to let the noise fade out and concentrate on more productive discussions.

Between all of the infighting and bickering between lineages that we warned you about in that other thread and all of the criticism we get from our detractors, a Wing Chun guy could spend all of his time arguing if that's what he'd like to do.



I don't know about all of that knee to the elbow stuff. Seems a bit indirect to me, and would likely have a low success rate. Why not just go straight for that kick to the leg?

Yeah, the more I thought about it, it would be impractical even in close. Yeah, straight to the, but would have to be devastating.