Adding to age of promotions to Black Belts?

[still learning]

Hello, Good inputs..many well said...and thought out...!

...the debate's will always go on when someone "young" gets a Black Belt!

Time in training..we most likly will agree on this for sure..

What is "right"? ....each of us will always have our beliefs...on BB promotions...for this topic!

Time to go......Aloha,

PS: Notice time on this site? ....we get promoted? (not neccessary better?) ....still learning from all of you!
NO standard rules for all of us? ....promotion can be given to anyone!
Elvis Presly got a 7th Degree BB from his 6th Degree Teacher...!
Aloha,

 

[suicide]

Hello, Good inputs..many well said...and thought out...!

...the debate's will always go on when someone "young" gets a Black Belt!

Time in training..we most likly will agree on this for sure..

What is "right"? ....each of us will always have our beliefs...on BB promotions...for this topic!

Time to go......Aloha,

PS: Notice time on this site? ....we get promoted? (not neccessary better?) ....still learning from all of you!

Aloha,

what if a guy off the streets walks into to your dojo and tells the sensei that if he beats all his black belts can he be granted a black belt too ?

does this guy like lewis deserve one ? with out knowing no techs. no katas no instruction just a fighter and survivor ...

GIVE THIS MAN A BLACK BELT !

:yoda:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

what if a guy off the streets walks into to your dojo and tells the sensei that if he beats all his black belts can he be granted a black belt too ?

does this guy like lewis deserve one ? with out knowing no techs. no katas no instruction just a fighter and survivor ...

GIVE THIS MAN A BLACK BELT !

:yoda:

Yes, but Lewis did not just walk in off of the street. He was already studying at the dojo. Presumably, he was beating the black belts with Shorin Ryu, not just coming in and roughing them up.

I agree with you, just coming in off of the street and whipping students does not mean that you should get a black belt, as the belt implies that you have actually learned the style.

Daniel

 

[tshadowchaser]

Being in my mid 60’s and having taken up yet another new art I may or not make black belt in it but I have the chance. If I learn the techniques , forms, etc., and am able to perform all the prerequisites why should I be denied the rank.
Having watch a gentleman in another system go through the ranks, learn, teach, and pass on his knowledge ( which may be different than teaching) and finally receive his black at the age of 70, I see no reason why someone of advance age can not do the same.
Now if one must have time in rank before advancing this may hinder those that are older but it dose not preclude them from gaining that rank

 

[ATC]

Joe Lewis earn his Black Belt is less than 8 Months (I believe it was less than that?) ...in Okinawa ...he kept beating all the Black belts in class...Sensi said ..you are equal to a Black belt!

Hmmm...but black belts should not get beat. Because they have black belts, doesn't that mean they should know how to handle themselves againt anyone that is not a black belt? What happened to all that training and knowledge that one has when promoted to black belt? Surely there is now way someone with less training can come in a beat a black belt. Maybe those black belts should not have had their black belts.

I say this in jest only because many put too much emphasis on a black belt having this new gift of being able fight or beat everyone under his rank. This is just is not true.

Just look at MMA for a moment. These guys are all tough as nails and most likley could already handle themselves without any training. Now give them some training and have them condition the hell out of their bodies and you got one scarry SOB. Lets say they take 2 years to train and have 15 - 20 matches in the cage during those 2 years.

Now lets take the average Joe and put him in a martial arts class. Let him train for 10 years like any average MA does. He test every so often to progress his rank. Then after said 10 years he becomes a black belt. Lets say that durning that 10 years he only worried about SD and never even did any sport tournaments in his style as he said I just train and study to lean SD principles. Also durning this 10 years he never had to use his skill once as nothing ever happened for him to even have to.

Now let put the new black belt in the ring with the MMA guy. Who wins? How long does it take? Of course we can not really answer this but my bet would be on the MMA guy. Why? He has closest thing to real fighting experience. He is the better conditioned person. These guys push beyond what any of us do in our classes and at home. And he only trains to fight. No katas or poomsae. No doing something that makes no sense for the sake of patients or disapline. Plus he was a fighter to begin with.

Just because you are a black belt does not mean you can fight. If you are not exercising 3-6 hours a day plus training to fight another 2 hours a day on top of that you are not a fighter. If your body is not conditioned to take as much punishment as you can dish out then you are not a fighter and just having a black belt does not make you one.

Joe Lewis was a fighter. Plain and simple as that. He could hit hard and he could take a hard hit.

Please do not equate a black belt with being able to fight, it is much much more than that.

 

[suicide]

Yes, but Lewis did not just walk in off of the street. He was already studying at the dojo. Presumably, he was beating the black belts with Shorin Ryu, not just coming in and roughing them up.

I agree with you, just coming in off of the street and whipping students does not mean that you should get a black belt, as the belt implies that you have actually learned the style.

Daniel

whats the diffrence ? if you earn it in 10 years or 5mins ... 10 years of training or just 2 free classes ...

GIVE THAT MAN A BLACK BELT ! PART 2

 

[MJS]

Hmmm...but black belts should not get beat. Because they have black belts, doesn't that mean they should know how to handle themselves againt anyone that is not a black belt? What happened to all that training and knowledge that one has when promoted to black belt? Surely there is now way someone with less training can come in a beat a black belt. Maybe those black belts should not have had their black belts.

I say this in jest only because many put too much emphasis on a black belt having this new gift of being able fight or beat everyone under his rank. This is just is not true.

Just look at MMA for a moment. These guys are all tough as nails and most likley could already handle themselves without any training. Now give them some training and have them condition the hell out of their bodies and you got one scarry SOB. Lets say they take 2 years to train and have 15 - 20 matches in the cage during those 2 years.

Now lets take the average Joe and put him in a martial arts class. Let him train for 10 years like any average MA does. He test every so often to progress his rank. Then after said 10 years he becomes a black belt. Lets say that durning that 10 years he only worried about SD and never even did any sport tournaments in his style as he said I just train and study to lean SD principles. Also durning this 10 years he never had to use his skill once as nothing ever happened for him to even have to.

Now let put the new black belt in the ring with the MMA guy. Who wins? How long does it take? Of course we can not really answer this but my bet would be on the MMA guy. Why? He has closest thing to real fighting experience. He is the better conditioned person. These guys push beyond what any of us do in our classes and at home. And he only trains to fight. No katas or poomsae. No doing something that makes no sense for the sake of patients or disapline. Plus he was a fighter to begin with.

Just because you are a black belt does not mean you can fight. If you are not exercising 3-6 hours a day plus training to fight another 2 hours a day on top of that you are not a fighter. If your body is not conditioned to take as much punishment as you can dish out then you are not a fighter and just having a black belt does not make you one.

Joe Lewis was a fighter. Plain and simple as that. He could hit hard and he could take a hard hit.

Please do not equate a black belt with being able to fight, it is much much more than that.

Can't disagree with this and I'm not sure who is saying that when someone gets a BB, it means they're Superman, and I know I've never said anything like that before. I'm the first one to say that while it should give the holder an edge, it doesn't make you immune to getting your *** whooped.

I've given my meaning of the BB in many other threads, so I'm not going to repeat it here. I'll never understand why some people think the BB holds some mystical powers. It doesn't. Its a black piece of cloth that you tie around your waist. Nothing more. Its the person wearing it, that needs to bust their ***, train hard, train often, and make sure that their stuff works.

Just my .02.

 

[Haze]

All BB's are conditional and situational. As stated, everyone has their own perception as to what a BB has to do and be to become a BB. In my area almost all schools require a 5 mile run or some equivalent. It's got nothing to do with the arts but it is what it is.

We had a female Shodan start training at a school I was at. She trained there for just under 2 years. tested for Nidan. After the promotion she came to the head instructor and told him she did not want it. She said that she felt that her forms where not up to par and there really was no one that could give her much of a test as far kumite was concerned. She said that she felt the requirements where not up to what she considered worthy of the rank of Nidan. Hnded the certificate back to the instructor and left.

Evryone else that trains at that school thinks it is a tough school and has very high standards.

IT is what IT is but we all see IT with different eyes.

 

[Jin Gang]

As people experienced in the martial arts world, we all know that ranks really don't mean much except in the school where they are handed out. It's pointless to debate what a black belt should be or should have in a universal sense. If I had my own school, I could make black belt the first rank you get, after learning one kata. More likely, if I had my own school, there would be no ranks and no one would have a black belt. Oh no! How can I tell how long people have been there and which kata to teach them next? How can my students brag to their friends if they can't say what color belt they have and how fast they got it?

In seriousness, if a black belt is supposed to represent any sort of expertise in fighting skills (which include strength and endurance), then there would have to be at least a general guideline for minimum age. Or if black belt is supposed to mean that you are qualified to teach others or be a leader of some sort, then there has to be an age requirement as well. If black belt just means that a number of kata have been memorized, or a certain number of years or months have gone by since starting, then children can do that as well as teens and adults.
I'm actually glad that somebody gave a five year old a blackbelt. It should serve to educate the public that a black belt, in itself, is meaningless. Maybe people, seeing this, will be less likely to fall into a school or system that promises a black belt after X-years, or for X-dollars. You, too, could receive the extensive training of a five year old, for just $1000 and 6 months of your time! It couldn't be easier to become a martial arts expert!

 

[Flying Crane]

Joe Lewis earn his Black Belt is less than 8 Months (I believe it was less than that?) ...in Okinawa ...he kept beating all the Black belts in class...Sensi said ..you are equal to a Black belt!

Hello, Masahiko Kimura..started Judo at age 10 and was a fourth Degree BB by age 18...at age 20 was a 5th Degree..by age 29 became a 7th Degree and was consider "unbeatable"...Known as the "Judo God"..

There are exceptional individuals, and there will always be those who are the exception to the rule. But they are exceedingly rare.

Everyone believes they are the exception. They are not.

Everyone believes that their child is the exception. They are not.

Everyone believes that their student is the exception. They are not.

People need to get over it. There is nothing wrong with being a normal, average student who needs to struggle and practice and put in the time just like everyone else.

 

[MJS]

what if a guy off the streets walks into to your dojo and tells the sensei that if he beats all his black belts can he be granted a black belt too ?

does this guy like lewis deserve one ? with out knowing no techs. no katas no instruction just a fighter and survivor ...

GIVE THIS MAN A BLACK BELT !

:yoda:

I'd tell him to get the **** out of the school. I'm there to teach, not entertain idiot walk-ins like that. Then again, having him sign a waiver and then proceed to kick his *** may not be a bad idea either. I'm sure this has been done in some schools.

 

[ATC]

All BB's are conditional and situational. As stated, everyone has their own perception as to what a BB has to do and be to become a BB. In my area almost all schools require a 5 mile run or some equivalent. It's got nothing to do with the arts but it is what it is.

We had a female Shodan start training at a school I was at. She trained there for just under 2 years. tested for Nidan. After the promotion she came to the head instructor and told him she did not want it. She said that she felt that her forms where not up to par and there really was no one that could give her much of a test as far kumite was concerned. She said that she felt the requirements where not up to what she considered worthy of the rank of Nidan. Hnded the certificate back to the instructor and left.

Evryone else that trains at that school thinks it is a tough school and has very high standards.

IT is what IT is but we all see IT with different eyes.

Wow! what a slap in the face of the instructor. How did the instructor take it? Also what did he say to the rest of the class after it happened? That is some serious egg on the face.

 

[sfs982000]

Hello, Many find a 5 year old is too young for a Black Belt?

What is a good age to give a Black Belt?
What makes a Black belt?
Who deserves a Black belt?

Joe Lewis earn his Black Belt is less than 8 Months (I believe it was less than that?) ...in Okinawa ...he kept beating all the Black belts in class...Sensi said ..you are equal to a Black belt!

NO official rules or regulations and or standards equal for all....

Just each systems and schools "make" there own rules on this..

We seen 60 years old and up be promoted to Black Belts (women and men)? ...easy to meet the minumun requirements...yet on the streets? They may not survive...

Aloha, ....sure there are many over 60 years that is stronger and faster...we are talking about the general populatons...not the top 20%..

PS: ...today with Black Belts is slowly losing it meaning....once when reach this level...was consider a great fighter and defender...look around...is this still true..
also defining its meaning..will be a personal one..of one beliefs too...

Is a Black Belt a technical school base or should a Black Belt be a physcial base for promotions?

Well my $.02 is that if the student can demonstrate technical aspects of the style they study, as well as demonstrating the maturity that comes with being an advanced student then promoting them to black belt at 15-16 is not unreasonable. Any student younger than that could be promoted to a Jr. BB based on knowledge of the material solely and their role in class as a leader would be limited. BB in class are the advanced students and should set the tone for the rest of the students, assisting the instructors as needed. Unfortunately there is the common misconception that all BB are instructors and/or can teach and pass on the material and as I'm sure that others can attest to, that is not necessarily the case. Anymore the BB is just another belt, should it be that way absolutely not in my opinion. BB in alot of schools these days is just another rank to help the instructors gauge what material to teach their class, for example, I have x amount of 1st Dan, so they need to work on x material, x amount of green belts, so they need to work on x material, etc....
I don't think there is any one "thing" you can classify that "makes" a black belt. For everyone it's different, some get there faster than others and more power to them. Personally I don't care how long it takes me, if I ever even make it that far, it's the knowledge that I gain along the way that is most important to me.
Testing is a whole other matter, everyone does it differently and to their own standards. Personally testing should push you beyond your normal comfort zone both physically and mentally.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Wow! what a slap in the face of the instructor. How did the instructor take it? Also what did he say to the rest of the class after it happened? That is some serious egg on the face.

I am curious about that one too!

Daniel

 

[Flying Crane]

We had a female Shodan start training at a school I was at. She trained there for just under 2 years. tested for Nidan. After the promotion she came to the head instructor and told him she did not want it. She said that she felt that her forms where not up to par and there really was no one that could give her much of a test as far kumite was concerned. She said that she felt the requirements where not up to what she considered worthy of the rank of Nidan. Hnded the certificate back to the instructor and left.

why did she stick around for almost two years and then take the test? Could she not see this coming, or did she just want to set up the instructor for a bad scene?

kinda weird...

 

[ATC]

why did she stick around for almost two years and then take the test? Could she not see this coming, or did she just want to set up the instructor for a bad scene?

kinda weird...

Yep!

 

[Gorilla]

The arrogance of the student giving it back is more of a reflection on the student than the instructor. To embarrass someone publicly with out warrant is uncalled for!!! Some people just take themselves to seriously. What is the purpose of giving back a certificate except to harm the reputation of the instructor. The student should be ashamed!!!

 

[suicide]

I'd tell him to get the **** out of the school. I'm there to teach, not entertain idiot walk-ins like that. Then again, having him sign a waiver and then proceed to kick his *** may not be a bad idea either. I'm sure this has been done in some schools.

ok what if he did sign the waiver and defeated you ( ugly beatdown ) would you then give him his BLACK BELT or be a sore looser about it and renig ?

 

[still learning]

Hello, We grew up as kids, young adults to adults...watching and reading all about Marital Arts....

Our beliefs was a Black Belt could beat up any body and protect themselves very well...

Once you start training and see many other styles...and all kinds of Black belts..and see how they pass out or give Black belts out today...including your own schools...makes you wonder of the meaning Black Belt...

Is a Black Belts like a college degree? or does it have a physcial meaning?

This thinks in the old days before 1970's and past years of before...A person carrying a Black Belt....EARN it! and could prove it too..

Today...NOT sure anymore (general statement)...

Original purpose was to teach one self-defense and the art of fighting...

ONLY on the streets we will know..if we can today as Black Belts know it we learn enough to survive!

Aloha, .....Black belts..is slowly losing its meanings...

...will the truths be known?

 

[Flying Crane]

ok what if he did sign the waiver and defeated you ( ugly beatdown ) would you then give him his BLACK BELT or be a sore looser about it and renig ?

you are assuming that Mike would be stupid enough to even allow that option.

c'mon man. Those things just don't happen. At least not to intelligent people.