But I am guessing that's what the OP was referring to, so that was the context that I was working on.
Obviously if what others are doing is different to that, but they still chose to call it sparring, then I'm sure it's more fit for purpose.
How important is sparring in traditonal karate?
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Obviously if what others are doing is different to that, but they still chose to call it sparring, then I'm sure it's more fit for purpose.
Maybe, but since the OP hasn't done any real sparring of any sort I wouldn't assume that there's a particular format of sparring he was asking about.
I call it sparring because it is sparring. Bouncy-bouncy tippy-tappy tag with most targets and most techniques forbidden may (unfortunately) be a common form of sparring. that doesn't mean it's the only form of sparring any more than XMA forms are the only kind of kata.
I'll quote myself from an earlier thread:
Types of sparring I do/have done ...
light, medium, hard contact
no protective gear, MMA gloves, Boxing gloves, shin pads, full armor, whatever seems appropriate for the level of contact and the techniques being used
punching only
punching and kicking only
clinching & knees only
punching, kicking, clinching and knees only
all strikes
grappling, takedowns only
grappling, just looking to enter to a control position for a takedown
ground grappling only, looking for submissions
grappling with takedowns and groundwork
positional ground grappling (ex - starting in mount, bottom person trying to escape, top person trying to submit)
ground grappling - pass or sweep
ground grappling - pass, sweep, or submit
ground grappling - pass, sweep, submit, or stand up
stand up sparring with strikes and takedowns
ground grappling with strikes
stand up sparring with strikes and takedowns, continuing on the ground
stand up and ground sparring with various "dirty tactics" allowed, such as hair pulling, groin attacks, (simulated) eye gouges, etc
situational/environmental setups - fighting in a car, on a couch, etc - grappling only and grappling with strikes
sparring where I try to limit myself to fighting within a given style or structure (i.e. use only Wing Chun, use only the Philly shell, etc)
stick sparring with padded sticks
stick sparring with real sticks and protective gear
knife sparring with training knives
unarmed against knife (standing and on the ground)
one against multiples grappling only
one against multiples strikes included
one against multiple weapons included
multiple against multiples
asymmetric rules (ex - one person can only strike, the other can only grapple; one person is trying to restrain the other who is trying to get away, etc)
various scenario drills aimed at specific situations, for example: to simulate having to recover from a sucker punch, one person stands in the middle of a "crowd" (the rest of the class gathered close), bends over to look at their toes, and spins around 30 times really fast*. During this time, another person is designated at the sucker puncher, puts on boxing gloves, and comes in aggressively shoving and punching once the punchee stops spinning. The defender must either clinch long enough to clear their head (if they can stand) or defend themselves from the ground using open guard long enough to clear their head (if they fall down).
*(If you've never been TKO'd, this gives a passable simulation of what it feels like. It doesn't really hurt that much, but your balance is shot.)
All sparring should be treated as a learning experience, not a proving ground for who's the biggest badass. Have a plan going in for what you want to learn. Afterwards, try to analyze what sort of problems, lessons, or discoveries you encountered. When I'm teaching class I like to do a Q&A so we can troubleshoot specific problems students may have run into while sparring.
In my experience, it is not necessary if we are discussing the typical type of sparring practice. I don't spar. I have successfully used the martial arts in excess of a thousand times on/off duty (I stopped counting years ago). I train/teach kata and bunkai. To me, bunkai goes well beyond typical sparring.
In my opinion, this is wonderful. Such well rounded practical experience.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. But you are counting on having a gun,knife and bat.
Karate doesn't really rely on those.
(Those deadly killer statements sound tough at the time. But it comes back to bite you
Most of your posts are incoherent babbling, but this one is even above your normal gibberish. Where, in my statement that you quoted, did I state anything about a gun, knife or bat?
Depends on your goals. I suspect 100 years ago people disagreed on what was important and why too. If you want to be able to fight, you need to spar. If you have different goals, maybe not.
Sparring has been done and not done in schools for a very, very long time. I imagine a lot of the "old" masters would have told you sparring is not only important, but necessary. And probably a few that would say it isn't.
Worried? Is your lifestyle one that will likely have you in fights from time to time? Most of us will never be in a fight, so being "worried" isn't really called for. But without sparring it's all just theory without application.
Now that said depending on your goals you need to watch how you spar. Some forms of sparring aren't all that useful and might even create more bad habits then they fix.
But in the end as long as you are having fun and being honest with yourself about what you are doing and the limitations of it you're fine. Sparring will develop a whole new set of skills that, depending on your goals might be very important, or completely irrelevant. Me personally, sparring is the centre of everything, without it it's all just empty theory. But more importantly, not as fun
Charlemagne
Black Belt
I really don't see how one cannot spar, at least once and a while, and claim to be teaching a martial art at the same time. At the end of the day, you can either use what you have been taught against someone who is not being cooperative, or you cannot. There is no gray area there. How are you ever going to know that unless you occasionally put that to the test, albeit in a controlled environment? I'm not suggesting that people in the same training group need to beat the snot out of each other, far from it. Sparring can be done in a safe manner and in a way where you are trying to make each other better. However, the idea that someone could get a Black Belt in Karate and not spar makes little sense to me.
Iaido
Kyodo
Generally Kobudo
Tai chi
Aikido
wushu
many forms of Japanese JJ
Same for Chin Na
Capoeira... I suppose you could sort of call is sparring?
Plenty of martial arts don't use free sparring.
Charlemagne
Black Belt
Fair, to a point. I would suggest that several things which are called martial arts, aren't, but that is just me.
And Bowling isn't a real sport!
Neither is Curling!
Wait... I'm Canadian... Curling is so a sport!
Charlemagne
Black Belt
It's got a target, it's a sport. Now gymnastics or figure skating on the other hand... LOL
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
That is because I am playing chess while you are playing checkers.
Remember the conversation with Hanzou. Where you would spar but you need a bat a gun and a knife?
See you couldn't step in to a ring unless armed to the teeth.
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Roda is sparring.
In a very, very, very stylized way that stretches the line between dance and sparring about as far as you can...
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
TSDTexan
Master of Arts
You are over thinking it.
Just do your kata and learn the bunkai.
Do your kata correctly daily, 10 time this week, 20 times per day in three months. In 8 months do your kata 30 times per day.
One year from now, do your kata 50 times per day for 6 months straight.
Then get training on how to strike the Makiwara.
The goal here is Progressive resistance/power.... slowly dialing it up.
Eventually, you will spend 1 hour per day on the Makiwara, and ten minutes on just one form.
The Makiwara will give you feedback on your structure, posture, and balance and at the same time it will subconsciously teach you range for your strikes.
After a year of daily Makiwara training then move to step three.
Iron palm, iron fist and iron foot training. You will need to find a competent instructor if you can. If you can't, find the book by Dale Dugas called "Fundamental Iron Skills".
The goal of this training is to condition your striking body parts for actual use without injury.
Your skin will be toughened and callused, your bones will radically increase in density and become impact resilient, and your tendons and ligaments will become stronger, and more supple.
You will be able to Crack and break coconuts with your knife hand strike etc. Without injury.
Then you can proceed to other aspects of hojo undo to help improve power, and speed.
But always strike your Makiwara daily, because your body will undergo changes, and this tool gives you feedback to keep it calibrated.
And always do your kata daily, even if its just once.
Ten years from now, be kind to others.
Share what you have learned, on the way.
This I tell you... so you will realize that if you are not "sparing", Karate has methods to teach your body how to defend itself.
morlock
Yellow Belt
I think this is a good philosophy to have regarding aggressions.
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No, you're involving yourself in conversations across the board in which you have no knowledge. I suspect to up your post count which is why you have nearly 11K posts in just over three years on the board.
I do remember the conversation with Hanzou, because I was involved in the conversation. That's why I know it has nothing to do with this thread. And the post was made to emphasis a specific point in the other thread. A point that was understood by Hanzou, and others...but apparently went right over your head.
You should make reading comprehension a priority in you life. I would save you a lot of grief.
Because you are familiar only with a specific model of training. That model of training, while effective for one type of martial art, isn't necessarily effective for other types of martial arts. It all boils down to the focus, goal and teaching methodology.
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