How important is sparring in traditonal karate?

[Tez3]

@BradderzH , another forum poster said to me recently that posts that are made on these forums are actually the opinions of the posters, so my advice is to take each individual feedback with a grain of salt. As for me; for various reasons I find myself more in agreement with @Paul_D

My two cents for what it's worth.

Take Care and Good Luck On Your Martial Arts Journey,
OSU!

Not so much. Some things are certainly opinions but if I'm telling you what techniques we train that's a fact and there's a lot of that here. If I say we do roundhouse kicks, front kicks and side kicks that's certainly not an opinion. If I say they are the best techniques in the world then that's an opinion. You can't take everything with a grain of salt, it's tantamount to calling people liars when they describe what they do, how they feel etc.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Not so much. Some things are certainly opinions but if I'm telling you what techniques we train that's a fact and there's a lot of that here. If I say we do roundhouse kicks, front kicks and side kicks that's certainly not an opinion. If I say they are the best techniques in the world then that's an opinion. You can't take everything with a grain of salt, it's tantamount to calling people liars when they describe what they do, how they feel etc.

This is a senseless and somewhat childish post that would've been best left unsaid. Common sense lets us all know that I was not referring to what techniques are practiced in a combat system. Everyone in this thread is posting THEIR OPINIONS on consensual sparring being good or bad for self defense.

If my tone seems a little too forthright it is because I feel that you made that post just to have something (irrelevant) to say without contributing to the actual subject of the discussion.

Take Care.

 

[Tez3]

This is a senseless and somewhat childish post that would've been best left unsaid. Common sense lets us all know that I was not referring to what techniques are practiced in a combat system. Everyone in this thread is posting THEIR OPINIONS on consensual sparring being good or bad for self defense.

If my tone seems a little too forthright it is because I feel that you made that post just to have something (irrelevant) to say without contributing to the actual subject of the discussion.



Take Care.

Oh what bollocks, if you don't like being disagreed with, ignore the post. You advised that all posts on here are opinions, patent nonsense. Everyone isn't posting their opinions on sparring, I put entirely factual posts and questions, you don't know my opinion on sparring. You are coming across like a short tempered school headmaster who's had sugar in his coffee, hasn't had a cigarette yet and is dealing with stroppy teenagers. Stop pontificating about opinions and patronising us because you think you better than we do about what is opinions and what is not. The Op can make their own mind up, they don't need you to tell them opinions are different. Don't like my posts? put me on ignore and save your blood pressure from rising any more.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Oh what bollocks, if you don't like being disagreed with, ignore the post.

Another senseless and childish post. I see now that you're one those people that have some serious immaturity issues and it appears that some intellectual deficiencies accompany those issues. I NEVER said that I don't like people disagreeing with me or having a difference of opinion than I do. You can never point where I ever said that. If I had a problem with being disagreed with I wouldn't bother posting on a forum where people are going to disagree with me.

You advised that all posts on here are opinions, patent nonsense.

And you're the only person who seem to not decipher that I was strictly referring to the posts made in this thread and the subject matter of this thread. NO ONE in this thread brought up the techniques that are practiced in a given combat system until YOU brought it up in your senseless childish post (which I want to reiterate did not contribute to the subject matter of the thread). COMMON SENSE (which seem to not be so common after all based on your last two posts here) should tell you that I was referring to the OPINIONS expressed in this thread; the OPINIONS of whether sparring is necessary/good or unnecessary/bad for self defense. I'm sure everyone else got that but you can only see the word "opinions" in my post and have decided to misconstrue and misinterpret that word just so you can have something (senseless, childish and irrelevant) to say. What are you like 13 or something? How about you grow up?

Everyone isn't posting their opinions on sparring, I put entirely factual posts and questions, you don't know my opinion on sparring.

First of all YOU'RE WRONG! EVERYONE in this thread who have a position on sparring being good or bad for self defense is posting his OPINION on the matter (including myself). Expressing one's position is no different from expressing a mindset or understanding or belief or OPINION. Same thing. Second of all, I don't need to know your opinion on sparring nor do I care about your opinion on sparring. I just know that any and every person who takes up one of the two positions on this subject has an opinion on the matter. Plain and Simple.

You are coming across like a short tempered school headmaster who's had sugar in his coffee, hasn't had a cigarette yet and is dealing with stroppy teenagers.

I rarely drink coffee and when I do I always drink it black as I DO NOT use white sugar AT ALL in my diet (that crap is poison IN MY OPINION) and I don't smoke cigarettes and never have. Care to post anymore not so clever punch lines to continue demonstrating how childish, immature and unintellectual you are?

Stop pontificating about opinions and patronising us because you think you better than we do about what is opinions and what is not. The Op can make their own mind up, they don't need you to tell them opinions are different.

Further proof of the childishness and immaturity. I already said this in the very post you decided to point out and start this silly argument of yours. Why start an argument with me only to repeat what I said to the OP in the first place? I guess this goes back to the intellectual deficiency I noticed about you.

Don't like my posts? put me on ignore and save your blood pressure from rising any more.

BRAVO! This is the only sensible thing you said in your last two posts. You deserve one of those little star shaped gold stickers on your forehead for that one. And I will GLADLY heed your advice and simply ignore you and your posts from here on ( I always thought it best to just ignore idiots lest they drag me down to their level and beat me with experience). For the record my blood pressure is just fine, sorry to disappoint you. I can tell you are one of those miserable people who don't have a lot going on in life and do whatever you can tell to make others upset or miserable just like you. A lame attempt at control or power over others since you have no control or power in your own life otherwise.

Since I am now ignoring you I will not be reading let alone responding to anymore of your senseless childishness. You'll have to find yourself a different sparring mate for that. Have fun acting childish and immature (and unintellectual).

I'm done with you for good now.

 

[Steve]

in the words of the immortal Scotty (well, the new Scotty), "I like this ship! It's exciting!"

 

[Psilent Knight]

And if my last response seemed harsh or over the top it wouldn't bother me one bit if it's reported or results in me being banned from here. It's just an internet forum that has no bearing on any aspect of my life so trust me when I say I won't lose any sleep at all over it.

Take Care Everyone and Enjoy Your Training and Discussions.

OSU!

 

[Tez3]

Well I hope PKnight feels better after getting that off his chest while breaking the rules about attacking posters, I have broad shoulders though. some people need to vent the frustrations of their lives out on somebody, so better me than someone who might take it seriously. You never know what is going on in people's lives that makes them feel the way PKnight does, perhaps life is tough or sad and this is how he deals with it. If he didn't like my first post he could have ignored it but hey that's life, onwards and upwards. I'm sorry life is treating him in such a way he needs to rant at others, I hope things get better for him.

I bet he peeps though at what I say.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I am not saying that SD training is some magical power that will help you if you are attacked in code white (as you describe) . As Geoff Thompson says, if you are attacked in code white only thing that will save you is the ineptitude of your attacker.

I listed four scenarios and only one of them involves the defender being in code white when the assault begins. Any comments on the other three?

In that first scenario, you could argue that the defender only gets the opportunity to fight back if the attacker is inept. Perhaps so, but sometimes the attacker is inept and fails to finish the defender off immediately. Alternately, sometimes the defender may start to come out of code white just in time to perceive the attack coming and partially cover up, avoiding the instant knock out. In either case, the defender is now likely to be hurt, disoriented, and have compromised structure. Knowing how to fight will greatly improve the defender's odds in this situation.

As a side note - one of the training groups I currently work with focuses heavily on the approach you advocate - "attacking pre-emptively with a constant one way stream of violence until the threat is neutralized." I've noticed that when we drill these sort of scenarios, I'm significantly better at performing them than most of the other students, including those who are much more experienced than I am at the art we are practicing. This may be because I'm a more experienced martial artist overall, but I personally think it has a lot to do with my sparring experience. Thanks to my sparring experience, I understand distance, I understand timing, I understand how to keep my balance and structure while moving, I understand how to instinctively adjust my angle relative to my opponent, I understand how to control my opponent's balance, I understand how to pre-emptively shut down my opponent's counters before he can begin them. I'm not saying those attributes can't be developed in other ways than sparring, but for me it has made a huge difference.

(BTW - by sparring I don't mean playing bouncy-bounce tippy-tappy from long range. I agree that particular sort of sparring doesn't help much with developing the ability to pre-emptively launch a barrage of overwhelming violence at close range.)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well personally I don't think it's necessary I competed in boxing, kickboxing, mma and point fighting over a 15 year period and during that time I sparred around 3 times and I won more fights than I lost so its not an absolute nesecisity

There would be no way this would be true for Jow Ga Kung Fu. It takes more than 3 sparring matches just for students to get comfortable with the idea that they are going to get hit.

 

[Buka]

This thread is just nuts.

 

[CB Jones]

EVERYONE in this thread who have a position on sparring being good or bad for self defense is posting his OPINION on the matter

Pretty sure it is accepted worldwide that my opinion is fact......just saying.

 

[Buka]

I don't play chess. So let me tell you all about it.
I am Gumby, damn it, I am supreme!

I think everyone should take a breath. Please?

 

[Steve]

Pretty sure it is accepted worldwide that my opinion is fact......just saying.

its a fact that you have an opinion.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

its a fact that you have an opinion.

Yeah, well. like, that's just your opinion, man.

 

[CB Jones]

its a fact that you have an opinion.

I am an authority on all things and.......

 

[drop bear]

Well I hope PKnight feels better after getting that off his chest while breaking the rules about attacking posters, I have broad shoulders though. some people need to vent the frustrations of their lives out on somebody, so better me than someone who might take it seriously. You never know what is going on in people's lives that makes them feel the way PKnight does, perhaps life is tough or sad and this is how he deals with it. If he didn't like my first post he could have ignored it but hey that's life, onwards and upwards. I'm sorry life is treating him in such a way he needs to rant at others, I hope things get better for him.

I bet he peeps though at what I say.

Conversion is sparring.

 

[drop bear]

There would be no way this would be true for Jow Ga Kung Fu. It takes more than 3 sparring matches just for students to get comfortable with the idea that they are going to get hit.

I wouldnt throw a person I liked into a competition without some sparring before hand.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I wouldnt throw a person I liked into a competition without some sparring before hand.

Same here.

 

[Tez3]

This thread is just nuts.

Just nuts or the mutt's nuts?

 

[BuckerooBonzai]

Yeah, well. like, that's just your opinion, man.