How does your art deal with two armed attackers?

[Loki]

We can learn 20 preset multi man attacks against weapons, but the fact remains, is that scenario is not going to play out in the exact same fashion as it did in preset tech. #1. Instead we need to take the concepts and ideas that we learned as a foundation, and learn to build off from there. We need to react...period!!! Not sit there and think, "Hmmm...ok, which one of the 20 multi man attack techniques am I going to do in this situation?"

OK, let me try to explain myself again. We DO NOT employ preset techniques against two armed attackers. We use preset techniques to teach students how to think when facing two armed attackers. We don't have a technique for when the knife guy slashses and the stick guy goes for your knee.

Like the outer defenses we have, where you lower your front hand in order to block outwards. You'd never actually do that in a fight, you'd maintain your stance. It's a drill meant to teach you what to do if a fight leads to a similar situation. Like you said, this is the concept and foundation.

On a different thread I listed this as my favorite technique precisely because it requires a high degree of ingenuity and improvisation. If you don't do the technique from start to finish like it's supposed to be on a test, you don't lose points. You lose points if you stop in the middle because it botched. You don't stop until you've beaten the other two into a pulp.

 

[MJS]

OK, let me try to explain myself again. We DO NOT employ preset techniques against two armed attackers. We use preset techniques to teach students how to think when facing two armed attackers. We don't have a technique for when the knife guy slashses and the stick guy goes for your knee.

Like the outer defenses we have, where you lower your front hand in order to block outwards. You'd never actually do that in a fight, you'd maintain your stance. It's a drill meant to teach you what to do if a fight leads to a similar situation. Like you said, this is the concept and foundation.

On a different thread I listed this as my favorite technique precisely because it requires a high degree of ingenuity and improvisation. If you don't do the technique from start to finish like it's supposed to be on a test, you don't lose points. You lose points if you stop in the middle because it botched. You don't stop until you've beaten the other two into a pulp.

Looks like this was a classic case of misunderstanding here. I think we all started thinking about preset moves, rather than just reacting. As for the tactics that you mentioned on another post...obviously getting out of the situation by running is first on my list. If thats not an option...I'd do my best to position myself so I could deal with one opponent at a time. Of course, this may not always be possible, but its worth giving it a try. I'm going along the lines here of using one as a shield against the others. Of course, you're not going to stand there all day, but instead try to take him out as quickly as possible and move on to the next. Again, I'll say that at any time I can find an opening to get out of there, I'll take it rather than stay and keep fighting.

Sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding here. :ultracool

Mike

 

[Makalakumu]

For my third dan test, I will have to spar a match empty handed vs multiple attackers with weapons. So far, overall, my main objective is escape. My secondary objective is to find a weapon. My third objective is to attempt to not engage everyone.

I have been visualizing this encounter in order to develop a strategy. As soon as my teacher calls "shijak" I'm going to run for the door. If I make it great, if not, then I'm going to grab something, an empty folding chair, and brandish it to make my attackers hesitate so I can escape. If that doesn't work, then I'm going to use the chair like a sheild and hopefully disable one of my attackers. If that doesn't work, I figure I'm screwed so I'll just go nuts and atttack attack attack.

 

[KyleShort]

In light of recent discussion on this thread I think my point is further validated. It is infeasible to train "differently" for multiple attackers. Train basic and pure.

Loki, when I said training to successfully fight unarmed against 2 or more ARMED assailants was infeasible, I meant exactly that You won't win. So, the only thing that I can concieve of doing is continue to train the way that you do for one opponent...train HARD. Then, on occasion spar multiple armed opponents to get a feel for it.

The only way to train for it is to experience it, and all that experience will do is prove to you that you can't win and any strategy aside from running or talking down the attack will be negated.

For a good test, fight for 1 minute against 2 opponents. One with a 28" stick and one with a 10" training knife. See how many times you get hit before you are able to "win"

 

[BruceCalkins]

Not with Knife and Club But I do Have a farm Animal Defense...

KARATE DEFENSE AGAINST FARM ANIMALS
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Traveling around the world, the average hitchhiker can sometimes find himself in the situation where the following question arises: can normal martial-art techniques be used against other species?

Well, I find that Fusho-Satori-Ryu is versatile enough to be used against many species. For instance, the variety of defenses against bear hugs would come in handy against Grizzlies, Polar, or whatever you run into. And at the upper level we are specifically trained to deal with attacks by common barn animals.



For instance:



Sheep Defense #1:

Against a charging sheep attack. Sidestepping by placing the right food behind the left, you dodge the sheep's charging attack, swinging your right arm up and around to bring a hammer-fist to the back of the sheep's head. Follow with a left front kick to the jaw, and then a right reverse leg sweep to both of the left legs, if possible. Cover out, grab scissors, and shear.



Plunging Cow #1:

Against whatever sort of horn attack a cow can mount. Step forward at a 45 degree angle, stepping left and parrying the cow's right horn with a right chop block. Do NOT strike the head. Cow skulls are hard. Follow with a lunging front kick to the udder (also known as the "milking strike"), and then vault onto the cow's back. Use the cowbell-strap as a sleeper hold. When the cow loses consciousness, roll off the cow to one side, then tip.



Multiple Barnyard Defense:

Against a surrounding attack by a horse, two chickens, and a pig.



Horse



Chicken You Chicken



Pig



You are, of course, facing the horse. As the pig makes its move (it always will), flow towards the chicken on the right, doing a left-handed finger-rake to the horse's nostrils and a simultaneous spinning right hook kick to the pig. With your free right hand scoop up the chicken, keeping your spinning momentum to throw it at the other chicken as a distraction. Rolling across the pig's back, use your free legs and perform a double crescent kick to whatever part of the horse you can reach. Upon landing, bonk the chickens' heads together, grab them, and drive the two beaks into the base of the pig's skull. Throwing both chickens at the horse, do a somersault between the horse's legs, roll out on one side, and leap over the horse, grabbing the mane as you fly across and using it as a takedown.



Well, honestly, that's about all I can think of. If I'm ever

assaulted by my cat, We will begin training again.

LOL Hope everyone found this funny.. ILMAO

 

[Rick Wade]

LOKI

Salute, here is the situation as I see it this is definitely one of those threads that you have to be there one on one to work and actually train. It is hard to picture in your mind when you are just say two armed attackers one club and one knife. A couple of questions:

Are they flanking you?

One behind one in front?
One in front got a knife or club?

What kind of attack a jab or slash (Knife)?
What kind of attack overhead or round house or continuous (club)?


These are just a few of the questions to properly paint a scenario. Then from there you get into the what if’s, like what if the first guy moves and the second guy does this or that.

If you are asking about a specific scenario please paint it out and we can work from there.

V/R

Rick E

 

[Ceicei]

Not with Knife and Club But I do Have a farm Animal Defense...

KARATE DEFENSE AGAINST FARM ANIMALS
​

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Traveling around the world, the average hitchhiker can sometimes find himself in the situation where the following question arises: can normal martial-art techniques be used against other species?

I'd love to see a videoclip of all that!! Thanks for the laugh!

- Ceicei