Oh dear. I'll try once more....
A couple of points - The video is not about showing how to defend against a knife only to show how the author of the video thinks a real knife attack occurs. The defender in the video shows nothing but how to get stabbed. Like a typical RBSD video they show how 'traditional martial arts do not work' but offer not suggestions whatsoever of how they think it should be done.
Well, you're right in what the video is claiming to show (for the record, it's not entirely correct.... most knife assaults are ambushes, rather than rushes, but the frenetic energy and speed is accurate). The real point of the clip, though (according to the uploader) is that, unless you're training to handle that type of sudden, explosive attack, there's a very good chance that your knife defence is deeply, some might say fatally, flawed. And, honestly, from reading through your take on such things, I'd suggest that that might be the case here...
-Timing and decimal point errors aside it takes less time to take one step to the side than it took the guy to close that distance.
I don't think you really get the effect that reaction timing has on things here.... are you familiar with the OODA loop? Oh, and no, by the way. Taking a step back, or even to the side, takes longer than a step forward. That's mainly due to the way we, as human beings, are designed. We're angled in one direction (forwards), and optimised for that direction when it comes to fast, explosive movement. Our hip flexors, our knees, our ankles, are all designed to support a sudden spring forward, not back, or sideways. So.... no. Wrong.
-This video does not give any credit to the defender at all.
The video isn't about the defender. It's about the attack.
-It takes a hell of a lot more time to wrap a jacket around your arm than it does to throw it away. The jacket is a distraction, nothing more, if it gets in his face and covers his eyes then it is all the distraction you need.
Uh, actually, no. Wrapping the jacket around your forearm/wrist is a gross motor, single action, basically done by holding in one hand, and rapidly rotating your wrist/hand once. Throwing (to get the result you're after) requires holding in two hands, opening the jacket (to get the proper "spread"), bringing it back towards your body, extending both arms towards the attacker, releasing the jacket, and hoping that the simple wind resistance (heightened by the opening of the jacket) doesn't slow the throw down too much once the jacket is released, ending in a low-impact (ineffective impact) contact. And, let's not forget, once you've thrown the jacket, you've just thrown away the only real asset you had for protection... for very little return, if anything. Oh, and no, that's really not all the distraction you need, as, in the heat of a real assault, it's really not enough of a distraction to be truly effective. Sorry.
-Just because you can't side step quick enough doesn't mean no one else can.
Here's the reality. We, as people, are hard-wired to move along what is referred to as the "Primal Line". That line is straight forward (to advance), and straight back (to retreat). A typical "fright" responce is to start to move back along this primal line.... which is exactly what is seen in the clip. It takes a hell of a lot of training to be able to move in any other direction as an initial action, as it is going directly against your hard-wired survival instincts, honed through thousands of generations. So while side-stepping is very useful, as an initial action, it's just not going to be there (in a real, sudden, violent, high-adrenaline assault). It would be a second, or third action, at best... which means you need to have survived long enough to be able to employ it in the first place. Oh, and I don't think you really get the reality of reactionary time, or human mechanics here, let alone the realities of such assaults.
- If he moves his foot backwards and plants it on the ground that qualifies as a step backwards.
Yeah... not really sure what this is in relation to... are you talking about the defender or the attacker here? Just not really seeing the relevance, other than trying a semantic argument to bolster your opinions...
- He can't grab your arm as he did in the video if your arm is not there.
You know, I just paused the clip with the time-code stating 0:01 (and the first stab had already landed, by the way...), and I gotta say, there is no grab to an arm.... the attacker has gotten hold of the defender (well, victim, really) by wrapping his right arm behind and around the neck (hmm, the knifeman is left handed... interesting... could just be a reversed video...). Besides, no-one mentioned anyone grabbing an arm....
- A thicker jacket is a softer jacket only if it is made of softer material (not leather for example) Not really relevant.
Hmm. I'm really not sure of the point being made here (on either side).
- As for the time it took to get within stabbing distance, my admittedly crude use of a stopwatch puts it at about 1.5 seconds, more than enough time to side step and kick/trip.
Yeah.... you'd be stabbed. Lots.
- The defense I suggested is simple and effective if timed correctly with even moderate reflexes. The side step to the non-knife wielding hand pouts you as far away from the knife as you can get in that small amount of time. The guy would be tripped over before he gets a chance to turn around or change position (even a 10 year old in a playground could trip someone over running at them) or stab/slash across himself, the stabber has too much forward momentum to do that.
Tell you what, let's ignore the lack of reality to this tactic, and look at the low possibility that you actually managed to "trip" the knifeman coming in towards you... what do you think their responce would be? I'll give you a clue... if someone's attacking with that amount of velocity (and aggression), they're not going to be stopped by being tripped... and they'll be fairly committed to injuring/killing you. That means you're dealing with someone acting with a survival mentality (unconsciously)... so an obstacle, causing them to start to fall, will have them immediately try to retain balance.... which will commonly be achieved by reaching out with the spare hand, and grabbing hold of something (in the situation you describe, most likely you) to steady themselves... which will have them quite simply falling, uncontrolled towards you with a knife. Bad, bad, bad plan. They will not fall on their own knife, they will not slash or stab themselves (more likely the knife hand will reach out [away from themselves] in an attempt to keep balance, for the record), so again, there is a large disconnect with reality in your plan.
-If you can't make a simple technique like that work then there is not much hope for you (not you specifically).
The deeply (fatally) flawed one you're suggesting? I'm thinking if you try it, there's not much hope for you (yeah, you specifically).
Step one: Don't get stabbed. Do a low cover and intercept the attacker's forearm. As you do this, step back explosiovely and hollow out your abdomen away from the attack, kind of like a performing a sprawl, but maintain your balance. Don't think about blocking the knife, remember to concentrate on the forearm when training. If you focus on the knife, you'll put your hands right onto the point. Better than getting it in the gut, but still.
Step two: control the weapon arm. You have him by the forearm. Now, don't let go. Hang on for dear life, because it's on the line.
Step three: defang the snake. There are any number of credible ways to proceed such as twisting for an arm break over the shoulder or "simply" (nothing is ever simple against a knife) grab the blade and twist it against the thumb. You'll get cut but so what.. you're in a knife fight... suck it up and realize you'll likely end up in the hospital no matter what. But better than than the morgue.
The simple reality is there is no knife defence that will succeed against a canny, well-trained attacker. That is the way it is. Any knife defence will be messy, sloppy and bloody in reality.
Nobody "wins" a knife fight. You can only survive one if you haven't lost.
-Mark
Ah, that's much better!
Some notes for RTKDCMB here... the first point Mark makes shows an understanding of the Primal Line, and gives a practical, and effective responce. The second is essential (if possible, I recommend two hands in a high/low grip (with one hand controlling the forearm, the other the upper arm, and marrying the arm to your body for the most control possible). The third is really the only one up for debate, and that might be primarily a matter of terminology. For instance, we don't focus on the idea of disarming (which is what "defang the snake" commonly refers to), but do focus on ending the encounter without giving the attacker the ability to use the weapon.
In essence, our defence is very much what Mark describes. The first step is to both avoid the knife, and to put a barrier inbetween the knife and your body, whether a forearm, their arm, an improvised item, a car, whatever. So long as there is something between your body and the knife, you aren't being stabbed (to the body). Next is control, which needs to be very tight and secure (we train against the knifeman trying to regain control of it constantly), and then we get to the "finishing" actions, which might be a barrage of strikes, a take-down (using the momentum of the attacker trying to regain their knifearm), or a couple of other method we have, ending commonly with a disarm once the attack has been stopped (so it can't be resumed).
Mark's last two sentences are absolutely true.
I was referring to timing of the clock in the video not the timing of the defender.
Huh?
This can work if you can stop his forward momentum and don't forget to move the knife to one side, I'd grab the wrist with both hands for maximum control and kick him before attempting to break his arm. I have seen students forget to move the knife to one side, perform the kick and actually pull the knife into themselves.
Right. Uh, no, really. Stopping the forward momentum isn't actually necessary... and grabbing the wrist with both arms is actually not getting a lot of control, as you're allowing free movement of the elbow and shoulder (no control). That can lead to the arm whipping around a fair bit, and you getting your arm cut up as the knife is retrieved pretty easily. As far as your students pulling the knife onto themselves, well, "forgetting to move the knife to one side" isn't the issue (as, again, that's really not a hugely realistic ideal). I'm not putting a lot of stock in your knife defence teaching, honestly, as most of it seems to be ignorant of the realities of such encounters.
Defanging the snake refers to a strategy of cutting the attacking arm with a knife of your own by slashing or withdrawing the knife in a certain way when it is blocked (can be negated somewhat by proper blocking technique), if I remember correctly.
No, that's one expression/application of the principle, if you have a blade yourself as well, it's not the definition of "defanging".
I always tell students that if you are to defend against a knife then expect to get cut so be absolutely sure it is necessary.
Especially if following the methods you're suggesting....
Rather than continue to make points about knife defense I recommend trying this.
Take a marker, give a friend this marker. Tell your friend to attack you randomly and aggressively with said marker. Try different defenses out against said marker as though it were a knife.
Watch how quickly you are covered in lines and dots where you are "stabbed and cut"
I learned very quickly that knife defense is great to know, but taking out an aggressive attacker wielding a knife is not as easy as it looks. Even when well trained it doesn't mean you can do it easily because one mistake can mean serious injury or death.
Also the awesome flashy stuff seen in movies... Yeah I don't recommend it. And last time I saw a kick used against a n with a "knife" ( in this case a red sharpie ) the guy just quickly stabbed the leg. Which would have been a stab to the femoral artery.
I agree with Chris, the jacket would serve you better if wrapped around your arm to minimize damage from slashing or thrusts while you attempt to gain control of that weapon. Either way, train like stated above. Simple techniques and reactions, when trained, are usually the most effective. But by no means are they guaranteed.
That would be like getting attacked by Mr Squiggle.
I think you have completely missed the point that Drasken was making... as well as showing (again) that you don't have much of a realistic idea of what knife defence is all about.
