Has olympic Taekwondo ruined the reputation of the art?

[Bob Hubbard]

][/B]seriously, Did you BUY that moderators tag?

You'll have to ask Bob about that...

For the record here, DD is posting as a member. All members, including myself are subject to the sites TOS.
If there's a violation, report it and it will be reviewed and dealt with if need be.

As to "buying" a mod position here, no. It's been tried. They failed. It's been suggested. They were wrong. Mods and supporting members have been infracted, suspended and even banned. My instructor was suspended. So was I. I've also banned paying clients from here who were paying me a lot more than $22/yr.

So take the personal shots private or drop em all ready.

 

[jks9199]

Just in case Bob's post was unclear:

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

jks9199
Asst. Administrator


A word to the wise beyond that... I'm tired. My back hurts, and I've got a long day yet to go. This time tomorrow, I'm willing to bet my response to personal shots in this thread will involve points...

 

[Gorilla]

Great Thread!

Getting allot of views!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Interesting. I've never seen such a place myself. How big are they? Do they claim to be teaching a martial art, or are they up front about what they're teaching?

I really dont know as Ive never been into one, although they generally have "taekwondo" written on their signage. I do believe there is a market for them, and not just for elite fighters either. Occasionally we will get a new student where all they want to do is compete, as often as they can, once a week if they can find enough touranaments, and yet they are new to the art. We cant accomodate such students and advise them of schools where they can compete, but a "sport only" school would suit exactly what they are looking for in my opinion. As far as whether they are up front about what they are teaching, I suppose from a student's perspective they will get a kkw cert whether they train there or a non sport kkw club, so they probably figure same cert = same thing. I would imagine, however, that students interested only in competing would find these clubs through word of mouth etc, I doubt little johhnys mum just wanders in thinking its the "whole" art, but Im only guessing.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

puuni said it multiple times. So did Dan Cole...both high ranked TKD people. Not my fault you didnt see it

me=right
you=wrong

AGAIN

puuini and mastercole said it repeatedly, over and over and over again......

 

[ATC]

OKAY!!!! Again with the WTF style vs. blah blah blah... There is no WTF style. There is WTF rules sparring and that is it. There is KKW and ITF. WTF is an org that sets the rules of Olympic sparring. That is it. The WTF does not create any forms, nor do they tell you how to kick, punch, grab, knee, or any other technique. They do set a set of rules for competition sparring and poomsae. They do nothing more than that. Not sure how much clearer it can be stated.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

OKAY!!!! Again with the WTF style vs. blah blah blah... There is no WTF style. There is WTF rules sparring and that is it. There is KKW and ITF. WTF is an org that sets the rules of Olympic sparring. That is it. The WTF does not create any forms, nor do they tell you how to kick, punch, grab, knee, or any other technique. They do set a set of rules for competition sparring and poomsae. They do nothing more than that. Not sure how much clearer it can be stated.

I think everyone knows this. People have a habit of saying wtf when they mean kukkiwon. When someone says "blah, blah blah at a wtf club" they just mean a kkw club, we all know what they mean. Its like when people call rugby league "nrl" or basketball "nbl", we all know what they mean, its just the way some people say it. If I had a dollar for every question on the internet that says "is wtf or itf tkd better?", Id be a millionaire Its highly unlikely that a kkw club would spar using ITF rules, or wear itf doboks, so Im not confused when someone says kkw but means wtf or vice versa. Actually a friend of mine is a third degree kkw black belt and refers to what he does as "wtf tkd", so even kkw people use the terminology.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I suggest that we just resurrect one of many old/dead threads if we want to argue sport vs art for the hundred millionth times

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I suggest that we just resurrect one of many old/dead threads if we want to argue sport vs art for the hundred millionth times

I think the fact the subject gets done over and over means two things, firstly people are very interested in the topic otherwise the thread would die out , not go on for 17 pages. Secondly, people are passionate about the subject. For those not interesred, simply ignore the threads regarding sport vs art. Easy

 

[Jaeimseu]

I think the fact the subject gets done over and over means two things, firstly people are very interested in the topic otherwise the thread would die out , not go on for 17 pages. Secondly, people are passionate about the subject. For those not interesred, simply ignore the threads regarding sport vs art. Easy

I agree that there is always lots of interest. We should just pick one of those threads and keep it all in one place.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Maybe a better question for this thread would be....

Which has had the most harmful effect on taekwondo's reputation, Olympic Taekwondo or anti-Olympic Taekwondo ramblings on the Internet?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Maybe a better question for this thread would be....

Which has had the most harmful effect on taekwondo's reputation, Olympic Taekwondo or anti-Olympic Taekwondo ramblings on the Internet?

...or, what has brought about all the anti-olympic tkd ramblings on the internet

 

[Jaeimseu]

...or, what has brought about all the anti-olympic tkd ramblings on the internet

That might be an interesting topic...if we could avoid the "because WTF sucks" comments. Of course, then someone like me will respond that I think it's largely ignorance that has brought it about. Then someone will get annoyed because they've been called ignorant and call me an apologist or a WTF fanboy.

Internet forum fun!!! In between the stupid stuff we'll probably have a good discussion^^

 

[ralphmcpherson]

That might be an interesting topic...if we could avoid the "because WTF sucks" comments. Of course, then someone like me will respond that I think it's largely ignorance that has brought it about. Then someone will get annoyed because they've been called ignorant and call me an apologist or a WTF fanboy.

Internet forum fun!!! In between the stupid stuff we'll probably have a good discussion^^

In all fairness, if you go back and read the whole thread there has been very little "wtf sucks" comments. I am probably one of the more vocal here when it comes to this subject, but I will always give credit to the wtf fighters, their skill, fitness, speed etc. I am definetely no fan of wtf sparring, far from it, but you will not see me using deragatory terms, and the same can be said for 99.9% of posters.

 

[Jaeimseu]

THATS THE PROBLEM

plus they wear BB's, so the public sees that, thinks it means what it is SUPPOSED to mean

THATS THE PROBLEM

I would be a full supporter of the WTF style of sparring, if, in thier tourny's they didnt call it TKD and didnt wear BB's

People here in this forum, who presumably have some kind of knowledge, don't usually concur on what "black belt" means. It's highly subjective and differs from school to school.

You seem to be approaching this from the very narrow perspective that black belt is SUPPOSED to mean what you think it means, and that if someone doesn't see it that way then THATS THE PROBLEM. Isn't it possible that the problem could be in the way you are viewing the topic.

Why should they not use the name Taekwondo? Because it's not the same as YOUR Taekwondo? Americans have football and the rest of the world has football. They aren't the same. But I (as an American) wouldn't suggest that the rest of the world not use the name "football."

 

[Jaeimseu]

In all fairness, if you go back and read the whole thread there has been very little "wtf sucks" comments. I am probably one of the more vocal here when it comes to this subject, but I will always give credit to the wtf fighters, their skill, fitness, speed etc. I am definetely no fan of wtf sparring, far from it, but you will not see me using deragatory terms, and the same can be said for 99.9% of posters.

I think that you're right, at least as far as outright bashing. Most commonly it's more subtle, for example posing a question like this thread's title could be seen as offering a negative view of Olympic TKD. Phrasing the question in a different way, "what kind of influence has Olympic TKD had on tkd's reputation?" for example, would read a little more objectively, IMHO.

Please note that I don't take any issue with thoughtful criticism, which many posters do indeed produce.

 

[Metal]

The question could also be "How has ITF and other smaller association's style sparring affected Taekwondo's reputation?"


Well, some people may see it is Kickboxing in uniforms, some people may see it as a copy of Karate and some other may complain that they're wearing hand and food safeties. Plus it's
strange when there's world-, continental- or national champions in every town. ;-)


Talking about Kukkiwon and WTF, while Kukkiwon is issuing the certificates and setting the technique standards, WTF is the driving force behind the worldwide growth of Taekwondo.


So what did WTF Taekwondo competition do for Taekwondo?


It made it possible for Taekwondo to spread all over the world and be practiaed in more that 200 countries.


At this year's Poomsae world championship it was great to see former Kyorugi players having went on to Poomsae.


It's not like Sport Taekwondo keeps you from looking further into the art once your competition days are over.

 

[andyjeffries]

Sport only schools do exist in the UK, and in my view that's no bad thing. They feed the tounament circuit and the elite athlete training programmes.

Out of interest, assuming they are not ashamed of being sport only, could you name a few examples?

I'm in the UK and don't know of any pure sport schools. I know some that focus heavily on it, but I don't know any that are exclusive (GB National Academy aside).

 

[andyjeffries]

I think everyone knows this. People have a habit of saying wtf when they mean kukkiwon. When someone says "blah, blah blah at a wtf club" they just mean a kkw club, we all know what they mean. Its like when people call rugby league "nrl" or basketball "nbl", we all know what they mean, its just the way some people say it.

Just to be clear, when you say "we all know" I assume you're talking about all the members of this board. Bearing in mind that this is an international forum, if you'd have just said "NRL" I'd have no idea what it refers to and I'm English (so Rugby League is a very normal sport to be talked about). To be honest, when I wrote the initials when typing this reply I confused it for a moment with the NRA (which is not an organisation that many Brits would be aware of or certainly have it spring to mind just from the initials without context).

That happens quite a bit, people assume that everyone on this forum is American, but it's really not the case ;-)

 

[Gnarlie]

Out of interest, assuming they are not ashamed of being sport only, could you name a few examples?

I'm in the UK and don't know of any pure sport schools. I know some that focus heavily on it, but I don't know any that are exclusive (GB National Academy aside).

I'm as careful with other people's identities online as I am with my own. If you want to find a few, ask the gold winners at local level tournaments in and around Doncaster, Manchester and Kendal where they train. A sport only club is sensible if you want to win tournaments. There are quite a few I can think of where poomsae and other elements of tge KKW syllabus are given only the most cursory of glances.

Gnarlie