The numbers are/were on the KKW website. They may still be there but I can't find it. Last year in the TKD thread there were links to it as well as the table posted with the break down for each Dan level inside and outside of Korea. I did a net search which brought up:
http://www.bctaekwondo.org/history.htm
This stated as of 2003 that inside Korea there were over 5 million poom/Dan holders, outside of Korea a little over 300K. Over 4th Dan in Korea were over 62K while outside Korea only 9K.
Appreciated.
The TKD thread was more current (maybe 2007 or more recent) which had it up over 7 million. I don't remember the numbers off hand but the % was about the same. I want to say that (rounding numbers) if there were 7 million poom/Dan in the KKW that about 6 million + were in Korea. This goes with what has been stated here in this thread i.e. everyone walking around is a BB. Why? Because they got it as a child (which is pretty standard) with a watered down curriculum which in turn inflates the numbers to impress the those that are easily impressed.
Unless you know the actual KKW curriculum and the curriculum that is being taught in Korea to the majority of students, you really cannot know if it is watered down. You
can reason that the black/pum belt is little more than a merit badge for learning what is considered the basics of the art. I have the textbook. There honestly isn't so much material in the geub levels that you would have to truncate the course to get someone through it in a year, and if they're training five days a week consistenty, it is quite possible. None of the Taegeuk pumsae are overly complex and there is very little the geub grades that goes beyond strikes and blocks.
As the saying goes, horses for courses. I see tons of adults start a martial art and then drop out. The fact that they aren't kids doesn't make it any better, but they do swell the numbers for the schools they attend. I don't pay all that much attention to the pum/dan numbers or even the overall numbers to determine the quality of the art. Even the drop out rate isn't all that important, given that based on conversations with people in many arts, the dropout rate doesn't vary all that much.
I have a friend who teaches jazz guitar and worked for several years in the music industry. You see similar take up and drop off rates in music instruction as well. A lot of the reason is that people take lessons because they want to learn to play guitar. Once they can play guitar, they generally stop taking lessons. Usually, you can only count on keeping an adult student for 1 - 4 years. Kids will stay consistently until they graduate high school.
Martial arts isn't all that different. Adults sign up to meet a goal. Lose weight, learn to fight, get a black belt, try something new. Once they achieve their goal, they move on. Generally, you're looking at one to four years. Kids are in the martial arts in the US as an after school activity. Once they graduate, they go to college.
Regardless of the art, only a very small percentage of people actually stick with the art much past shodan, and even a smaller number continue past second or third. Then you have that tiny group that will be involved in the martial arts for as long as they're physically able, and even they dont' always stay in the same art.
As far as kids learning the art and getting their black belt, kids learn lots of things. For many years, in certain segments of western culture, kids were expected to take piano lessons or violin lessons. They generally stop after high school. They can competently play piano. But they aren't concert pianists, they don't compose their own pieces, they can't play in a band or orchestra setting, they cannot take on the role of a church pianist and they may or may not be able to improvise. But they can open up a song book and play piano.
Whether or not a million Korean children with black belts is a good thing or not is irrelevant to a certain extent; that is the environment. It works there, but it may not be the best fit in other places. Again, it comes down to what the belt represents, which isn't consistent from art to art, place to place, or even school to school.
I don't mean to be mean with that statement, but it is what it is. Proponents of the KKW often tout/shout the number of BBs in the KKW but often neglect to mention they were mostly children in Korea that fall away in droves as adulthood is reached. Too me...this doesn't speak very highly of KKW TKD in Korea or elsewhere. Not pooing the KKW (though it may seem this way) but I'm just being straight up. If someone likes the KKW and what they have to offer, that's fantastically wonderful and great. Just don't blow smoke by standing on numbers as an indicator of how great the organization seems to be. It is a paper tiger in regards to retention, standards and meaningful numbers.
The subject of KKW pum/dans came up in relation to a question of which federation had the greatest presence. The KKW doesn't track non pum/dan enrolment, so that was the only number available.
I agree that the number is fairly meaningless in terms of measuring the success or quality of the art. And as most of us will agree, quantity doesn't reflect quality of the art, though it may reflect quality of the ability to market the art.
Unfortunately it appears that Hapkido is/has followed suit. :uhohh:
In Korea, it has apparently been following suit for at least a couple of decades, which indicates that the black belt is simply not viewed in Korea as it is here. Personally, I cannot see a children's program that can comprehensively and responsibly teach the entirety of the basics for reasons that I have already elaborated (safety mainly). Given that hapkido doesn't translate as well into a sport as TKD and that it isn't the national sport of Korea, I cannot see any practical benefit to pushing tons of kids through the geub grades.
