KHF information

[glad2bhere]

Dear Hal:


BTW: Re: The post you cited on the KHF

I take it you are absolutely 100% sure that I wrote that post? I mean, since I haven't been on the KHF website since sometime last week. No wonder you are in such good shape--- I mean, as much time as you spend "jumping" to conclusions.


Fine. Its a big world. Your opinion and welcome to it.

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Kodanjaclay]

Gents,

Let's move along to something a bit more productive? There are issues that are deep running here, but this venue will not solve any of them. If anything, airing them here, will only make matters worse.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Frank:

On the surface there are some superficial differences in attitude and perception and I think you are right when the discussion rolls over these issues. However, underneath the superficial differences are one or two very basic differences which are going to need to be faced down and these are the only reason I can see having anything to do with such an exchange. Since what I am about to say deals with cultural underpinnings I will try to keep this brief and simple but I think we both know how complex the problem is even before I start.

Since the KMA are products of the Korean culture it is impossible not to have influences of Confucianism and Buddhism intermingled with the philosophy that holds these arts together. Both Buddhism and Confucianism raise respect for the community and authority well above the individual. So far well and good.

In both Buddhism and Confucianism organizational authority descends from above. For the sake of efficiency and effectiveness members agree to submitt to the authority of the individual designated as the head of the community. Rarely, if ever is the authority of the leader questioned as this is considered an affront to the "Hwa" or harmony of the community (not necessarily the just the designated leader). Again, so far well and good.

Where the system breaks down both in the East AND in the West is the point at which the leader is expected to care after the welfare of the individuals given into his charge. I have written on and discussed this very important point many times and it STILL is not acknowledged. The role of Buddhist and Confucian underpinnings in the KMA is a "balancing act" between the deference one shows a person in authority and the manner in which an authority figure cares after the people placed in his charge. THIS is where the problem comes in. Within the context of the culture this issue does not arise as the existence of both behaviors--- the deference of the juniors and the care of the seniors are opposite sides of the same coin. However, in a Western society where authority is often seen as more dictatorial the care of the junior is often represented as more optional while the deference of the junior is STILL required. Soooooo--- what happens?

A.) A person with a Western acculturation decides to join a Korean MA.

B.) He sees that seniority is respected and apparently it is "disrespectful" to question or challenge or otherwise hold that authority accountable.

C.) He SEES that this retiscence to hold authorities accountable is not unlike the similar position with authority here in the West and CONCLUDES that and the community is managed by a leader whose judgement and decisions are above reproach.

D.) The result is that when challenged modern leadership invoke the Confucian Model and posit that they cannot be challenged or questioned. This is simply and PATENTLY NOT TRUE. The problem is NOT that the Confucian model does work but rather that modern KMA leadership have taken a wrong turn in its practice. If you examine the authority models in Korean history you will find that individuals who find themselves in positions of authority arrive in those places through the recognition of the community, NOT because someone bestowed a rank or gave a certification. Even Kings and Emperors were required to have what the Chinese called "the mandate of Heaven" in order to reign.

If you reexamine our exchanges, Frank, underneath the yelling you will see a very basic conflict. Hal, as my senior has every right to chastise me for bad deportment. That is not only his right under KMA practice but is actually his responsibility. Without my teacher immediately present at the event Hal is a kind of "loco parentis" (lit: "local parent") to the event and would be expected to take me in hand if I misbehave. Where the conflict comes in is that I am likewise invoking my position as a junior and wanting to know why he did not take care of my needs in return for my deference to him. Reading his statements he believes that he did take care of my needs and I said that he didn't and that is where things stand. However, I believe that we are talking about something that is extremely important not just because of the differences between Hal and I but because the Confucian model is invoked--- then abused or misused--- at even the organizational level such as what we saw in Florida and now with the KHF. We realy need to discuss this even if we must perhaps step back from the issue between Hal and I for the moment. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

This looks like a good time and place for some Yogi-isms.................

"You can observe a lot by watching".............................

"If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be"........................

"The future ain't what it used to be"..............................

And finnally,..........."When you come to a fork in the road.........Take it"

:uhyeah: :boing2:

 

[dosandojang]

Bruce, that was a very well written, and thought out post. Bravo...

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Dosan:

Thank you for the kudo-s. Unfortunately, as you can note by the silence that followed its publication (and as many times before over the years) noone is interested in dealing with this issue. As much as certain cultural institutions are invoked, sadly it is done only for the benefit of an elite few and not for the greater good of the arts. I could have predicted this silence as it has occurred on the Dojang Digest, E-Budo, Sabaki and Budo-Seek to name a few whenever I start asking people to actually discuss the value systems they say they abide by.

Over the years I have raised issues akin to this and have been challenged for my negativity, "poor martial spirit", immaturity, asocial and anti-social behavior just to name a few. I have been identified as "disrespectful", spiteful, ungrateful, mean-spirited, closed-minded and excessively ridgid. I have noticed through all of this name-calling that folks who might speak to the issues I raise never quite get around to talking about the issues. Its a classic case of shooting the messenger for the message. The only good thing I can say about any of this is that I am not required to continue to stick my head in this fan. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[greendragon]

Wow, I must have really missed some stuff on here. I haven't been here for about a month... let the games begin!!! First of all let me say that I have known Master Whalen for quite a few years... have we argued? yes,, have we gotten mad at each other in the past? yes... have we aired our dirty laundry on a message board? uh no... I consider Master Whalen like a member of my family.. I can have disagreements with him BUT we are still family. That being said, I don't talk about my family members with non family.

Master Whalen has always been in my corner and I have been a recipient of his and Master McCarty's generosity in Boston and Hartford. Master Whalen will go over and beyond what is considered Master's ettiquete and servitude. He has done this numerous times with me in the past and very recently too. I am not a member of the KHF but that didn't stop him from helping me out... Without getting into the middle of this squabble just let me say that I have never known Master Whalen or ANY of his students to be anything but generous and fun loving.. When they get on the mat THEY GO HARD!! When they are off the mat they are just fun loving people that are cool to be around. IF you have had a problem with them then maybe the problem just might lay inside of yourself....

Bruce... I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon here but just let me say bro that let's see... you had a problem with Master Whalen, you had a problem with Doju Nim Ji Han Jae...etc...etc.. and it seems that in both cases you packed up your tent and left early... yes? Well hmmmm... I'll leave it at that...maybe a little more downstairs and a lot less upstairs might serve your Hapkido training better...just a thought...

I WILL be in Ocala to train with Fabian, Master Holcombe Thomas, and my friend Master Whalen.. This training is not about the KHF or any other org. in my opinion, it's about getting on the mat with a few of the top notch Hapkido Masters in the United States and LEARNING!!! In my opinion there is nothing better in the world to do than that...come on down and judge for yourselves...
Michael Tomlinson

 

[whalen]

To all members of Martial Talk and to those in doubt or those that wish to share the mat.......

In light of the recent announcements regarding the cancellation of the June Instructor's Course and Dan Testing, I would like to invite all interested Hapkido-In to Ocala, Florida during the previously scheduled dates (June 24-27) for a Friendship Workout/Seminar.

This seminar will be hosted by Master Fabian Duque and lead by myself, Master Holcombe Thomas and Master Duque. The fee for all 4 days of the seminar (not including hotel or travel expenses) will be $100 (U.S. Dollars).

As the U.S. Director of the KHF, I understand the immense burden that the cancellation of the Masters Seminar and Dan Testing has imposed upon all of you who were planning to attend. I too have found this cancellation to be an incredible inconvenience.

In order to show our support for Hapkido, however, and those who were planning to attend the Ocala event, we will move forward with this training seminar in lieu of the previously scheduled Instructor's Course and Dan Test. It is our hope that these four days will allow each of us to forge new friendships within the American Hapkido community while learning more about the art which we all love and cherish.

In order to prevent any confusion, I must reiterate that this is a Friendship Workout/Seminar. It is open to all Hapkido-In, regardless of organizational affiliation or belt rank. It will NOT offer qualification towards instructor licensing under the KHF and Dan testing will NOT be performed.

Through myself, Master Thomas and Master Duque you will be exposed to the curriculums of three different Hapkido Kwans and learn more about what KHF Hapkido has to offer. So prepare to train hard, sweat and make new friends. Also, feel free to bring your camcorders!

Details regarding the exact schedule will come at a later date. We do ask that those planning to attend notify Master Duque at the previously posted phone number/address as soon as possible, so he may have an idea of how many people will be coming. You may also contact him for other questions regarding hotel and/or transportation.

Sincerely,


Harold L. Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michael:

"....Bruce... I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon here but just let me say bro that let's see... you had a problem with Master Whalen, you had a problem with Doju Nim Ji Han Jae...etc...etc.. and it seems that in both cases you packed up your tent and left early... yes? Well hmmmm... I'll leave it at that...maybe a little more downstairs and a lot less upstairs might serve your Hapkido training better...just a thought......."

Thanks for your thoughts, but to be perfectly candid with you Michael, I think this all comes down to a simple matter of priorities--- pure and simple.

When I lost my job and members of the Hapkido community could have spoken-up on my behalf, I'm afraid that was not a priority for them.

When I attended the seminar in Colorado taught by GM Ji and found his teaching approach lacking, instead of discussing the nature of teaching I was shouted down for not showing proper deference to a Hapkido icon. Again its a matter of priorities-- which was more important to people--- an evaluation of teaching skills or protecting a much loved personality.

When I went to Mass for what I was lead to believe would be a deep examination of KHF material vis materials of particular kwans and individuals relative to the up-coming Masters' Course I was taken to task for offending the attendees and the matter of getting MY needs met never got addressed.

When I attend an event and find that MY needs are not getting met,I leave. However I have noticed that somehow I am criticized for leaving early and not staying the course but the matter of my needs as a teacher AND student NOT getting addressed never gets talked about.

When I raise the issues of "respect vs responsibilities" in the dynamics between senior vs junior, the issue of traditional weapons training versus introducing weapons material from other arts, the issue of investigating documented Korean martial science versus oral traditions of current Hapkido personalities nobody wants to hear about this. (quote Ray Terry- "who cares")

In short, Michael, there are a group of Hapkido practitioners who have a very specific way in which they view the Hapkido arts, Hapkido personalities, Hapkido history and Hapkido politics. They have made it abundantly clear that there is little room for people who do not share their way of experiencing the Hapkido arts. And when someone comes along and experiences the Hapkido arts in a different way, the messenger gets taken to task rather than the issues discussed. And if its is of any consolation I can report that this is not unique to Hapkido arts. Check the "Tang Soo Do and the Chinese Connection" on this same net and you will see in my exchanges with Robert that rather than being appreciative of getting some pretty sophisticated information regarding the subject, Robert was arguably antagonistic and arrogant rather than grateful. I think I can be forgiven if, after a few years of this sort of treatment, some part of me finally starts to realize that people want the KMA a particular way and have little interest in dealing with the facts when the prejudices are so much more interesting.

In closing, I will say only that I hope the up-coming event in Florida is everything you and Hal, Fabian, et al desire it to be. For myself I no longer trust that the use of "friendship", "brotherhood", "unity" or "solidarity" are anything but buzzwords that folkks use to sugar-coat their advertizing. There is no room in your fraternity for disparate views of the same art and I don't think you have to hit me with a stick to get this point home any better than what the experiences of the last two years has. Sorry for the long post. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kodanjaclay]

Bruce,

You have been told ad nauseum, that there is no official KHF syllabus. I know that Master Whalen indicated that, and I know my very good friend Master Duque, with whom I have trained off and on for many years, is more than happy to qualify anytime someone asks.

Either way, when being taken to task, in your words, should it be done in a dojang with people present? Second, Master Whalen is senior to both of us. While I may not agree with something he says or does, as a student, my job is to learn what he trying to show me. Whether I think I know it is irrelevant. Why? Because there has been alot that I thought I knew, and then Master Yoon, for example of Jin Jun Kwan, would tweak it for me. Sometimes the most valuable lesson lies hidden.

Either way, no one is perfect. Not even Masters Whalen and Ji. Once this year is over, I intend on learning as much as I can because many of these Hapkido assets are not getting any younger. I waited too long to go see Hwang Kee, or to attend a General Choi event. Now it is too late.

As far as speaking out when you lost your job, what good would it have done? You apparently used government equipment and was taken to task. For the record, I DID say something to Hackworth, that this little battle of his was getting out of hand, and I recommended he take the high road and not pursue these disagreements as they were worthless. Little did I know that he was the instigator, but life goes on. What happened to both of us is now in the past, and you really have no alternative at this point but to move forward and do the best you can. I believe you have indicated that you are Buddhist... if so, do you remember the Second Noble Truth? Sources of Suffering? Analyze it and move forward. There is nothing more you can do here. As far as training with Masters, remember that they must give us what we need, whether we like it or not. Analyze the bitter, and remember Khum Son, humility.

I sincerely hope that this has helped in some minor way.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Frank:

Thank you. I want to most sincerely thank you. Your timing and phrasing could not have been a more poignant counter-point to what I wrote. Your response is EXACTLY the sort of response I have come to expect ANYTIME I raise the very points that I did in my post to Michael. IF YOU REREAD my post you will see that I offered myself as only ONE of a series of perhaps EIGHT examples of situations which are chronically avoided or ignored or derided. And remember, Frank, this is NOT done by folks other than those who represent themselves as studying arts intended to build courage, dedication, fraternity and character. Had I understood the depth of the hypocrisy such martial artisits are capable of maybe I could have foregone such an avocation where the promise of mutual aid and respect never quite fits the reality. On a happier note, while I do not see myself fitting into such a group of elites, YOU on the other hand show true promise. Given a few years, your past transgressions and misrepresentations will be forgotten and you will undoubtedly be taking your place among the recognized and accepted few to show your collective distain for anyone who thinks differently from yourselves.

BTW: You MAY want to get your facts straight before you speak up on a subject for which you were only part of "rumor control". I was in the middle of that storm and have a sense I know just a BIT more about what was said and done than do you. For all their character assasination "unofficially", the principles never QUITE made it to court, choosing to settle rather than have to defend their case. Trust me, you are grossly misinformed.

Regards,

Bruce

 

[greendragon]

Bruce,
My interpretation is this.... you go to different events with some of the highest ranking Hapkidoin on the planet.. it seems that you have an impossible time of just emptying your cup so that more knowledge can enter. When it comes to Doju Nim Ji.. I have trained with him many times and the FIRST thing you must do is turn off your ego and prior training biases and just absorb what he is doing and saying.. for some this is impossible. With Master Whalen I think the same thing must be done.

Whatever happened to going in and expecting nothing but a learning experience? It seems to me that you are quick to judge teaching protocal, curriculum, etc... but you are very slow in judging yourself. The reason I mentioned that you always leave early is to point out that while you have an overabundance of critical analysis you never seem to even last thru an entire event, do you see a pattern? No offense but I think you would be a nightmare to have in class.. the perpetual cerebral know it all that is always comparing what is being taught to some prior knowledge that you learned or to some curriculum model you learned... with these previous attachments you would literally be impossible to teach. This kind of mindset is literally as far away from the concept of Buddhism and Mushin as a person could ever be.
Again, I don't mean this to be a flame at you just an observation over the years... I truly don't think you need anymore Hapkido training, I think you need training in ego control and more spiritual training. For the record, I did warn you about the goings on with your problem about the Ocoee idiot and his gang. Remember the private email I sent you about "those" guys. But for some reason you found it necessary to keep in contact thru message boards and emails with the exact people who had affected your life so miserably. When someone wrongs you you keep in contact with them and when people try to help you such as Master Whalen and Doju Nim Ji you rant and rave about how inadequate they are.. Again, no Hapkido training can help you... just my humble observation. Again I am a long way from perfect myself so take this with a grain of salt but maybe you should research yourself and your actions and mannerisms more deeply before looking for Hapkido training. If you are a Buddhist you need to reevaluate your training and mindset because it is not based on anything that remotely adheres to Buddhist precepts. I am also a Buddhist and IF we were in a temple studying you would be getting beat across the shoulders for thinking too much. Take care of yourself and please think about what I've posted.
Michael Tomlinson

 

[Kodanjaclay]

Bruce,

You misunderstood my intent entirely. It is about moving on, not getting into some "elite" group. I myself have no desire to be in any elite group. I want to ensure that I have certain training oppotunities before they are gone forever. As far as MY transgressions, I have been taken to task and blamed for things which I could have had no knowledge of, and yet that fact never seems to rise. I even got some venom from you, and I didn't even know about your situation until it had passed.

Bruce, I know it is easy to blame Connolly and Hackworth, but at some point you have to stop and say, ok, I DID contribute to this. Just as I know I will face some venom and comments for some time, because I did not WANT to listen to others. I met Hackworth, and believed that he was right, and that he was the victim. That was my mistake. I have freely admitted my mistakes, publicly and privately and frm that point moved forward. Anyone else's issues are their own. I have done what I can. To whit, contact Mr. Burresse, Master Whalen, Master McClarty, Master Segarra, or any of the others that I contacted. It is a sad state of affairs that there are those who believe that my admission, which basically left egg on my face, was somehow engineered to help me. If it had not been for Masters Whalen, Timmerman, Pak and Lim, I would have retired from Mudo in its entirety. Masters Whalen and Timmerman offered guidance and Pak and Lim offered training. Some very hard training to be truthful. It seems everytime I turn around, Master Pak has found a new way to work me even harder... but it is good for my soul. Eventually I may decide to actively teach again, and I need this training to be able to help others, but first I must help myself.

Those are my tasks.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michael and Frank:

I want to sincerely thank both of you for taking the time and energy to respond as you did. No sarcasm, here. I genuinely "thank you" for your thoughts and want you to know that it IS important for me to think about what it is that I "brought to the party". Some part of what happened most certainly IS my responsibility and I cannot for a minute believe otherwise.

If I can borrow your comment, Frank, the bottom line (n my regard) IS
ENTIRELY about "moving on". I mention the issues that I did to point up how I view treatment in the past. I can't think of anything that will ever repair that damage. In YOUR case, Frank, you have made a decision not to teach. In my case I have made a decision to wean away from dialogues and contributions such as the one which we are having here. To be perfectly candid I no longer have faith in the best interests, motives or agendas of the various people on these Nets nor those in the KMA in general. I am glad that you both have been able to maintain your balance and I envy that to some point. For myself, I need very much to take care of myself. I think Michael is right about going into teaching situations with an open mind and I strongly recommend it to folks anywhere. For myself, I can no longer look at names such as Oh See Lim, Joo Bang Lee, In Hyuk Suh, Han Jae Ji and many others and not see one more dog-&-pony show, a carnie barker, a till and a souvenir shop. Now before you start tuning up the violins, this isn't meant as a "poor me" kind of post. I'm just stating matter-of-fact-ly that I simply am no longer willing to extend myself and risk
just one more act of faith wherein, just maybe, some well-touted personality might actually turn-out to be everything he said he was. Just too many disappointments.

Now I don't pretend disapointment will go away. If you ever saw me do a jump-spin-kick, my technique defines the word "disappointment". However, its no longer necessary to make my work, goals and asperations a matter of public entertainment or fodder for whoever is looking to take anonymous pot-shots. I think I probably deserve better than that, and maybe we need to consider this my last word on the subject, 'Kay?

Again, thanks for your time and attention in these matters.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[kwanjang]

Hello all. I just posted a reply on another thread about 'judging' others. It seems that the folks posting on these forums waste a lot of time with negative things. Yes, we do need to be warned about possible problems just to have a "heads up"; however, why is it we spend so much time in beating some of these issues to death. It is like floggin a dead horse. With all the talented people on line, why don't we give an honest effort to discussing technique or other worthwhile things some of the junior ranks could learn from. Instead, we teach them all about deceit, anger, and all of those other negative things. We joined martial arts to get away from all of this didn't we.

 

[greendragon]

Guys I just like to train,, everyday if possible with the best and most knowledgeable people I can find. I hadn't been to this site in over a month.. didn't mean to make a bunch of waves but I will ALWAYS state what I thingk about Master Whalen because I know him... he is a good guy that will help out anyone..... so I had to spout off, that's all... I'm out again... see you all in Ocala if you come... Hap Ki!!!
Michael Tomlinson

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Ok, let's see, Bruce is a "know it all" and (paraphrase) a "nightmare to have in class" - well, let's all pass a little judgement shall we...

Bruce comes down to my dojang about once a week, about an hour and a half haul for him. We train, then we talk, we agree and we disagree, but I have never found Bruce to be a man who does not listen. Listen and contribute, might be a better phrase.

Next, I read a lot here about tenet's of training - where did they come from? I know that General Choi built them into TaeKwonDo, but I have never heard of such a thing in Choi, Yong Sul's Hapkido. Now, maybe, other instructors have thrown them in, but when a tenet makes teaching and training ineffective, then it is uneeded in a martial arts school. Anyone that walks into my school with other experience is encouraged to share, in fact, if they walk in with knowledge and play "dumb" I will be insulted. When someone comes to me to train in Hapkido, and they have done Hapkido before, the stuff better look the same - no cup emptying needed. If one of us feels that the stuff we know is not the same, something there ain't hapkido.

I, like Bruce, did infact understand that pre-testing type training was to know what would be expected during a test for an organization. So, hey, glad I stayed home, cause Bruce and I would have been expecting the same thing. An organization with 70+ different branches that tests under a unified flag has to be able to produce a group of common techniques from which to pull - those are what I understand Bruce was looking for - and not to get those and expect to test blind is strange practice indeed. Funny, but the KHA never seemed to have these issues, what a mess now for this organization and its members, sad really.

Last thing for now, Bruce and I really do see Hapkido in two different ways, but that has never meant that we cannot train and learn together. Funny, but if Bruce's posts are actually read I doubt all this confusion would ensue. I know that Bruce (sorry to put words in your mouth buddy) wants to cut to the chase of the training, to get around the personalities involved and get to the heart of the matter. At times, I think Bruce is 100% on track - in particular when I see people come to the defense of BS propogated by a "well known" instructor - not because they are right, but because they are well known.

The dojang in which Choi, Yong Sul taught for the last twelve years of his life had a dominant saying at the front of the class, it translated to "truth" or "virtue" - funny how so many that trained with him ingored that...

Rock on Bruce!

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

One other thing that struck me is that many of you seem to think there is somethng wrong with a person expecting that if they attend a seminar that thier needs will be met - well what exactly is the problem there?

A teacher, or instructor, by definintion is one that teachs others, a good instructor teachs others to learn better by instructing to each student where they need to be taught. Where is this inconsistant with martial arts instruction? As I see it, a teacher must teach to the needs of the student, or he is not a teacher.

It amazes me that some actually see this as a problem, then I look at who is being referenced as the "teacher" and I wonder if the teacher actually believes that they have more importance than the material - when this happens, martial arts die - because a teacher that cannot meet the needs of his students to learn will be alone.

Expect more and learn more. Lots of stripes on a belt should mean that a student should be able to expect more of a teacher, more detail and more depth and breadth of knowledge and a good way of transmitting it. Stripes should mean that every student is taught to their potential and beyond.

Bruce is right to expect that his "superiors" will attend to his needs - if they don't they are little use as teachers. And for those of you that really believe that you should just take what is given from a superior, not ask more or expect more, I have some bareknuckle puches into a chainsaw for you - duh.

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor

 

[kwanjang]

Hello all,

One other thing that struck me is that many of you seem to think there is somethng wrong with a person expecting that if they attend a seminar that thier needs will be met - well what exactly is the problem there?

A teacher, or instructor, by definintion is one that teachs others, a good instructor teachs others to learn better by instructing to each student where they need to be taught. Where is this inconsistant with martial arts instruction? As I see it, a teacher must teach to the needs of the student, or he is not a teacher.

It amazes me that some actually see this as a problem, then I look at who is being referenced as the "teacher" and I wonder if the teacher actually believes that they have more importance than the material - when this happens, martial arts die - because a teacher that cannot meet the needs of his students to learn will be alone.

Expect more and learn more. Lots of stripes on a belt should mean that a student should be able to expect more of a teacher, more detail and more depth and breadth of knowledge and a good way of transmitting it. Stripes should mean that every student is taught to their potential and beyond.

Bruce is right to expect that his "superiors" will attend to his needs - if they don't they are little use as teachers. And for those of you that really believe that you should just take what is given from a superior, not ask more or expect more, I have some bareknuckle puches into a chainsaw for you - duh.

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor

I agree with some of the above statements, but I also think that it is not quite so cut and dried. As a teacher I DO have to be concerned about the welfare of the student; however, I don't lose sight of the fact that some students need to LEARN what it is they need. Many beginners don't have a clue as to what it is they look for, and that is why I give them one month of free training. This is NOT for the student's benefit alone. I too want to see what they are all about, and if I don't like what I see I will not sign them up. Some folks simply come to the wrong place.

Others change along the way. For example, I have had to ask one of my best (lets make that most capable) young students to leave, because HIS road veered way off of what it is that I wanted to do in my dojang. He became obsessed with the tournament fluff that I simply do not want in my school. After teaching him for about ten years (most of that time his training came along great), I just felt I was no longer meeting his needs as an Instructor and HE was not meeting MY needs as a student. Regardless of what others might think, I don't feel any less of a teacher just because I failed to meet one lad's dreams of becoming the next Bruce Lee.

Similarly, when I give a seminar, I have to be concerned for the welfare of ALL participants. If someone came expecting something that is way out of line with the content of my planned presentation, the best I can do is offer a refund. I will NOT change the seminar content the rest of the participants came for. Again, I won't feel any less of a teacher for doing that

 

[iron_ox]

Hi kwanjang,

Your points are well taken. I was more referring to the fact that what I see here is a guy that is being chided because he left two seminars early because for whatever reason they did not meet his expectations. I could not agree more with this - when, as a younger student, I attended seminars that were clearly not what I expected, I always left, and when I felt that I was ripped off, I made no small point of making sure the instructor knew.

Its fine to be nice and respectful if the thing is simply not your cup of tea, but I would never feel it was warranted when I paid good money, and put in time, for something that was less than expected or less than it should have been.

I have always believed that hapkido was right for everyone, and have never tried to exclude anyone - my students and I have the same expectations of each other - they are simple - work harder, and all will get better.

Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor