Hapkido Curriculum

[Bob Hubbard]

Admin Notice.

A number of posts in this thread have been brought to my attention. I would like to remind everyone that MartialTalk is not interested in being a Fraud Busting site. There are many sites out there for that, where they also allow you to swear, brag, fling poo, and libel a will. We however aren't one of them.

This thread looks to have started with someone looking for a new direction, and they appear to have found it.

If you would like to politely discuss the art of Hapkido, Combat Hapkido, or such, please by all means do so. If you simple want to discredit someone I strongly suggest rereading our rules. If you have a personal issue with GM Pellegrini take it up with him directly.

I'm not a student of his, however I've had the pleasure of having a couple of his students teach at our annual meet & greet, and I've heard no complaints concerning their quality, and both they and GM Pellegrini are always welcome to teach at our event.

If anyone has a problem with this statement, address it to the Steering Board.

Good evening.

Bob Hubbard
Martial Talk Administrator

 

[terrylamar]

"If it works..."

You just recently started this program to supplement the self defense part of you TKD program. You don't know yet if you are able to convey the information in a usable form and whether the students are able to absorb it, or even if it valuable workable information. I can appreciate you enthusiasm but you lack first hand knowledge that " it works" until you produce a "graduate" of this program that holds up to peer review- no? Yourself included. All you can reasonably say is "I hope that this program will be a benefit my TKD school." It seems a bit of hubris to say "it works"

No, I started this as a seperate program. I have Hapkido students who have never studied TKD. I, also, have some students that are in my TKD classes.

I do not teach any TKD in Hapkido class. I do teach some Hapkido in TKD. Not the entire cirriculum.

I am working my rear end off trying to offer the best Hapkido and TKD that I possibly can.

 

[Drac]

I am working my rear end off trying to offer the best Hapkido and TKD that I possibly can.

The best of luck to you...Keep us posted...

 

[Kumbajah]

I feel somewhat responsible for the direction this thread. I apologize if I have stretched the boundaries of MT policies. I still hold firm to my opinion of distance learning. I think it is possible to discuss the topic with out discussing personalities - although I do not apologize for my opinion of certain personalities, I do realize that this isn't the place to voice them.

 

[zDom]

Not taking any sides here, but I do want to express an opinion:


An important part of hapkido instruction is not only teaching technique, but the student getting feedback from the instructor on their attempts to do the technique.

As an assistant instructor, I find that some things have to be SHOWN to the student by doing the technique TO them. Demonstrating with a third party while they watch is not always effective.

And while some problems with a student's technique can be spotted by watching, assessing a student's grasp of the technique (figuratively and literally ) is often best accomplished by having them do it to ME rather than a third party.


And while I have no issues with GM P, I do wish he would have gone with a different name as I agree with a statement made above that ALL hapkido is (or should be) combat hapkido.

 

[Brad Dunne]

Don't think Kumbajah was the one at fault, I'll take the hit on this. The problem when dealing with a subject like this, is that it will lend itself to spiral into a more focused subject and that's what happened. Perhaps anytime a subject like this is started, mabey it should be referenced by the mods that this is not a favorable subject to be discussed (prior history's) and then just remove the thread/post before it morf's.
My apology for the re-routing.......

 

[Kumbajah]

How about we share. :uhyeah:

The tone was set before your comment.

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Terry, with the understanding that you have several years of Hapkido training, I think that as long as you are very honest with your students and let them know that you have joined a new organization, and this is the teaching direction you are choosing, then they have the option to stay to go based.

I recommend that you confine your teaching to those techniques you are REALLY familiar with, until new material has been checked by whatever authority does so in CH.

Although I do not understand the CH model, at all, I think it is a good idea to limit crossover between the arts you teach. You added you also taught TKD. While it is true (and I am saying this based on experience only with ITF) that the Hoshinsul aspect of TKD is based on Hapkido, there is really very little material from TKD that is useful in Hapkido. And I do say that with all due respect to TKD practitioners, but TKD principles of motion and philosophy of technique are simply not very compatable in the Hapkido environment, this may or may not also be true with combat hapkido.

Last thing, but after many years of shaking my head at CH and its founder, Pelligrini - and a few not so nice sets of correspondence between us - I am far more interested now in the idea that many people are duped by who should be awarding rank in Hapkido, and how, and why Hapkido is so unusual in this regard in comparison to all other martial arts. Just a thought, perhaps for another thread.

 

[Brother John]

However, no one bitches about a book. It is almost laughable to learn from a book if you are a beginner.

Sadly everyone bashes a dvd but a book is worse, just my opinion.

I agree with what you're saying!
Nothing can or ever will compete with the quality of instruction you get from a face to face, teacher/student relationship you get at a school / dojang / dojo...etc.
BUT: IF you are an experienced martial artist, I feel that both books and video can HELP in gaining other insights and distinctions that may help one out!!
Also: I agree that video tends to be better than book. HOWEVER --> I feel that the absolute BEST is to have a combination of the two!! To have text that digs further or gives more explanation....but to have it paralel what is presented, demonstrated and shown in the DVD's.

Your Brother
John

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Incidentally, I just read the January issue of Blackbelt and Master Peligrini is on the cover.

Daniel

 

[JadeDragon3]

Why does combat hapkido appeal to you but the traditional hapkido does not?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Me personally? It doesn't. I am a student of traditional hapkido. I posted about Master Peligrini because it was mentioned in the OP.

If you're responding to the OP, he'll have to answer that.

Daniel

 

[terrylamar]

Why does combat hapkido appeal to you but the traditional hapkido does not?

I'm not sure who you are addressing this question too, but I will answer.

A traditional hapkido school does appeal to me. There isn't one within 150 miles. I teach classes 6 days per week and cannot travel that far and make it back, not to mention the cost associated with driving 300 miles round trip.

My classes are a blend of the ICHF cirriculum and the Traditional Hapkido I learned before. This is allowed in the ICHF system.

Combat Hapkido is a condensed version of Hapkido. It removes all the acrobatic type techniques and limits falls. This allows a wider cross section of the population to participate. Namely, older people which I am fast becoming one. I am pass the age where I want to jump over multiple people and do a forward roll. I still can, it just isn't pleasant anymore. Same with falls. I don't want to be slammed into the mat.

I want to be able to attract older or non athletic students who may be otherwise turned off by the more brutal asspects of Traditional Hapkido.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Just an aside, I read the article, and Master Peligrini states pretty much that: no new or specialized moves, but the essential techniques as geared towards a soldier on the battlefield. Here is a direct quote from the article; brackets and all.

"In combat hapkido, we've stripped away a lot of the traditional trappings- such as the classical stances and positions. We've [kept] the core of the art because basically a joint lock is a joint lock; nobody is going to reinvent it. We've stripped it down to emphasize close-quarters comflicts for modern battlefield environments, and we take into acount that when [a soldier] strikes, joint locks, or takes somebody down, he's going to have equipment on."

While I can see where this would appeal to a variety of people, I am not one of them. I'm not a soldier on the battlefield, nor will I be given my age. Part of the appeal of traditional hapkido for me is the traditional. I enjoy the classical stances and positions and the Korean cultural aspects that one finds in a traditional school.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of Combat Hapkido, but it isn't for me personally.

Daniel

 

[Kumbajah]

Why does combat hapkido appeal to you but the traditional hapkido does not?

It's easier and you aren't held accountable.

"In combat hapkido, we've stripped away a lot of the traditional trappings- such as the classical stances and positions. We've [kept] the core of the art because basically a joint lock is a joint lock; nobody is going to reinvent it. We've stripped it down to emphasize close-quarters comflicts for modern battlefield environments, and we take into acount that when [a soldier] strikes, joint locks, or takes somebody down, he's going to have equipment on."

Read - we ignore the basics because we never learned them properly.

Watch any video of GM P and you can see he lacks sound basics.

 

[howard]

"In combat hapkido, we've stripped away a lot of the traditional trappings- such as the classical stances and positions...

More proof, if anybody needed it, that Pelligrini doesn't understand the basics of Choi Yong Sul's art.

Choi never taught "classical stances and positions", and didn't have any "trappings". Look at Jung Ki Kwan techniques, look at Yong Sul Kwan techniques, to see what I mean (both kwans led by direct 9th dan students of founder Choi).

Caveat emptor.

 

[dortiz]

Lol,
they probably mean those silly basic balanced stances that involve those heavy trapping single pivots. Replaced with much more combat ready shuffling of feet all about and leaning way over on basic armbars.

; )


Dave O.

Got to give him credit here
"I want to be able to attract older or non athletic students who may be otherwise turned off by the more brutal aspects of Traditional Hapkido."

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

More proof, if anybody needed it, that Pelligrini doesn't understand the basics of Choi Yong Sul's art.

Choi never taught "classical stances and positions", and didn't have any "trappings". Look at Jung Ki Kwan techniques, look at Yong Sul Kwan techniques, to see what I mean (both kwans led by direct 9th dan students of founder Choi).

Caveat emptor.

In our hapkido class, we practice tanjun breathing exercises from a horse stance, as well as warming up with various blocks and punches from a horse stance. We perform the techniques either from a 'walking stance' or from a natural stance. I don't know if long stances, back stances, or cat stances eventually enter the picture because in hapkido, I am only a 6th gup, testing for 5th next week (I'll be a killing machine once that blue stripe is affixed to my green belt). Certainly, such stances are part of taekwondo. We also learn Korean terminology, which makes sense since it is a Korean art.

I am assuming that such things are what Pelligrini is talking about when he says that they dispense with classical stances, positions and traditional trappings.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Lol,
Got to give him credit here
"I want to be able to attract older or non athletic students who may be otherwise turned off by the more brutal aspects of Traditional Hapkido."

I am surprised to hear traditional hapkido referred to as more brutal than something called Combat hapkido.

To be fair, I think by brutal, Terry means athletic/acrobatic based on the preceeding paragraph.

"It removes all the acrobatic type techniques and limits falls. This allows a wider cross section of the population to participate. Namely, older people which I am fast becoming one. I am pass the age where I want to jump over multiple people and do a forward roll. I still can, it just isn't pleasant anymore. Same with falls. I don't want to be slammed into the mat."

Being one of those older people (41 is older in terms of performing martial gymnastics), I can see Terry's perspectice. On the other hand, I have learned to do rolls and falls that I had never learned in years past and to do them better than most of the teens. Admittedly, I have had some falling and rolling in various taekwondo schools over the years, particularly at my current dojang, but still, it can be done.

If he's talking about teaching beginning senior citizens, then I can see where this might be an issue, as the elderly generally need to work into such things more slowly and generally no longer have the ability to take the punishment of doing jumping rolls or break falls if they've never done them before.

I guess that it all depends on the type of school you want to run: hard core, solid traditional, or a more hobbyist oriented class.

Daniel

 

[crushing]

Lol,
they probably mean those silly basic balanced stances that involve those heavy trapping single pivots. Replaced with much more combat ready shuffling of feet all about and leaning way over on basic armbars.

; )

I doubt they meant that. Efficient footwork and proper posture is every bit as critical to effective techniques in Combat Hapkido as it is to Traditional Hapkido.