Hapkido Curriculum

[Kumbajah]

Again - I don't think GM P is going to turn off the spigot. I can only dissuade people from pursuing it and similar programs.

You only have to watch him to see he's a paper tiger. He advertises his lack of skill. Look at his video and compare to any THKD master. The difference is evident. I don't have to prove anything -it's there in full Technicolor.

It's not a fell swoop that will bring him down- it's the principle of Yu.

Good Luck with your videos.

 

[terrylamar]

Again - I don't think GM P is going to turn off the spigot. I can only dissuade people from pursuing it and similar programs.

You only have to watch him to see he's a paper tiger. He advertises his lack of skill. Look at his video and compare to any THKD master. The difference is evident. I don't have to prove anything -it's there in full Technicolor.

It's not a fell swoop that will bring him down- it's the principle of Yu.

Good Luck with your videos.

Thank you for your kind wishes, they mean so much to me. Oh, and by the way they are DVD's, we upgraded, that is why our technique is so much better now.

I do believe it will be the Won and Hwa Principles that will bring you arround.

Bye, bye.

 

[Kumbajah]

lol -That was actually pretty funny. I can't wait for HD.

When you watch him stutter step through his techniques, I hope you realize what you been sold. You can stop the cycle.

Don't do it man. Don't do it.

Peace.

 

[Drac]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Drac
MT Moderator

 

[matt.m]

Well in Pelligrini's defense he was a student of Kwang Sik Myung. He had attained a black belt in TKD before training under Myung. I don't know his exact rank of attainment under Myung, however from what I have seen of ICHF stuff on youtube it isn't bad.

However, a black belt will understand body mechanics better than a white belt. Who's to say. I mean the Gracies have their books and dvd's. He-Young Kimm has his books and DVD's. That is just to name a few. However, no one bitches about a book. It is almost laughable to learn from a book if you are a beginner.

Sadly everyone bashes a dvd but a book is worse, just my opinion.

 

[Drac]

Sadly everyone bashes a dvd but a book is worse, just my opinion.

I must agree...

 

[Kumbajah]

I mean the Gracies have their books and dvd's. He-Young Kimm has his books and DVD's. That is just to name a few. However, no one bitches about a book. It is almost laughable to learn from a book if you are a beginner.

Sadly everyone bashes a dvd but a book is worse, just my opinion.

The difference is they aren't offering rank in conjunction. They aren't part of a distance learning program.

Seminars, DVDs, and Books are all just supplements not the meal.

 

[Kumbajah]

Well in Pelligrini's defense he was a student of Kwang Sik Myung. He had attained a black belt in TKD before training under Myung. I don't know his exact rank of attainment under Myung, however from what I have seen of ICHF stuff on youtube it isn't bad.

http://www.hapkidoforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=194

Pellegrini made his 1st dan from the late Michael Wollmerhauser (AHA) while living in Florida and teaching Taekwondo. This was during an AHA event at Chester Holubeckis' Isshinryu Karate school in Orange City, Florida. No particular year was given but the range was '88, '89 or '90.

Approximately a year later Pellegrini was awareded an "honorary" 2nd Dan from Master Wollmerhauser.

Later, in 1991, GM Pellegrini is seen in a World Hapkido Federation event photograph and in 1993 was awarded a 4th dan by KJN Myung just a bit before being asked to leave the organization. 1993 was also the year that the International Combat Hapkido (ICHF) produced its first set of tapes.

April 18th, 2004, GM Pellegrini was promoted to 9th dan under GM In Sun Seo. This took place in Pusan, South Korea. GM Rudy Timmerman and GM Doo Hyung Cho were also promoted to 9th dan. Also present were Robert Gray, 3rd Dan (currently 4th Dan; ICHF) and GM Serge Baubil (currently head International Hoshinkido Hapkido Federation (http://www.hoshinkidohapkido.com/).

The offical kwan name for the ICHF organization is Jeon Too Kwan (전투&#44288 , or "Chon Tu Kwan" as spelled by the ICHF. Recognition was given by GM In Sun Seo (World Kido Association) on March 27th, 1999.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

BTW It seems that TKD is fundamentally flawed in that the instructors don't think it's enough to teach it alone and seek to bolster it with Hapkido. I don't see HKD people seeking add on TKD. I yet to see a TKD studio that didn't mention HKD in the marketing material.

Greatly depends on the organization and instructors, so I would disagree with this, at least as a blanket statement.

Taekwondo, in the big picture at least, has gone the direction of tournament fighting. Nothing wrong with that; MMA really goes that direction for the most part too. But because of this, things like sweeps and takedowns, and a lot of SD focus has all but vanished from many schools. Instructors who seek to put it back in and can't find a TKD school that still contains these elements will generally go to the local hapkido school to get them.

Daniel

 

[jks9199]

Sadly everyone bashes a dvd but a book is worse, just my opinion.

Slightly off-topic... but I disagree.

A video, even with multiple angles of each technique, still can't see some of the elements of a technique. In writing, I can describe a weight shift that's not really visible from the camera. I can tell you where you should feel something, or how it should feel to receive a technique. Sure, you can talk about that in video -- but it's just words, and people don't pay attention. If they're bothering to read a book, they're going to read it.

Note that NEITHER books, nor videos, are sufficient for a beginner alone. As an experienced student, I can probably learn some (but not all) techniques from a book or video -- especially if it's carefully put together. But it's still not optimal; there's still no substitute for an experienced instructor guiding you through the learning process.

 

[Brad Dunne]

The following information was taken from the link that Kumbajah offered.

"In 1992 he founded the International Combat Hapkido Federation (ICHF)
Dedicated to being of service to the martial arts community, Grandmaster Pellegrini also founded several other organizations he felt were needed by the martial arts community: The Independent TaeKwonDo Association (ITA), International Police Defensive Tactics Institute (IPDTI), Self Defense America (SDA), and the World Martial Arts Alliance (WMAA)."

Perhaps one should ask themself, is fronting at least 5 organizations real dedication to the arts in general or just banking 101?

 

[terrylamar]

The following information was taken from the link that Kumbajah offered.

"In 1992 he founded the International Combat Hapkido Federation (ICHF)
Dedicated to being of service to the martial arts community, Grandmaster Pellegrini also founded several other organizations he felt were needed by the martial arts community: The Independent TaeKwonDo Association (ITA), International Police Defensive Tactics Institute (IPDTI), Self Defense America (SDA), and the World Martial Arts Alliance (WMAA)."

Perhaps one should ask themself, is fronting at least 5 organizations real dedication to the arts in general or just banking 101?

I did ask myself that very question. Since each organization covers a different and unique area my conclusion is that his primary motivation seems to be serving the Martial Arts community. Is he making money by doing so, surely. Who among us, that have our own schools, aren't.

Grand Master Pellegrini has received bad press from day one. Yet, he has been promoted by people who seem to be above question. Why not question them if you have doubts about GM P.?

 

[terrylamar]

Slightly off-topic... but I disagree.

A video, even with multiple angles of each technique, still can't see some of the elements of a technique. In writing, I can describe a weight shift that's not really visible from the camera. I can tell you where you should feel something, or how it should feel to receive a technique. Sure, you can talk about that in video -- but it's just words, and people don't pay attention. If they're bothering to read a book, they're going to read it.

Note that NEITHER books, nor videos, are sufficient for a beginner alone. As an experienced student, I can probably learn some (but not all) techniques from a book or video -- especially if it's carefully put together. But it's still not optimal; there's still no substitute for an experienced instructor guiding you through the learning process.

And I disagree with parts of your post.

I do find a DVD far superior to a book. After all there is a saying,
A picture is worth a 1,000 words. I will add, a DVD is worth a 1,000 pictures.

Better yet, would be a book and a DVD together. For those who would take the time to study both.

I do agree it is better to learn from a real live person teaching the techniques personally. There are limitations to this method of learning, also.

What teacher has the time to devote to one student all his time so that one student learns the techniques perfectly?

What student has the resources to pay the teacher for his devoted time?

At most you get his attention for one hour per day. Maybe three times per week.

Divided by 30 students.

Less days off, holidays, sick time, lazy time.

This isn't a perfect formula, but I'm sure you get the picture.

My books and DVD's, on the other hand are there whenever I need them. 100% of their time, devoted to me.

Now the only question that remains is how much of my time can I or will I devote to them. Since they are available to at all times, I can watch or read at 0200 in the morning, on vacation, while I'm sick in bed, really, any time I choose.

Therefore I don't dismiss them as inferior methods of learning. While I agree, they do have some limitations, they, also, have some advantages.

Yes, I would prefer to learn from a real live person standing in front of me, ideally, I would combine all three for a superior learning experience, combined with a lot of willing training partners and realistic situations.

Until you have to use it in a real situation, you don't know if you have been trained properly or not, regardless of your training method.

Anyway, I have yet to see one of you offer any proof or cite any study indicating learning from a DVD is an inferior method of learning.

All this discussion has turned into, is what an evil, greedy person GM P. must be.

 

[Brad Dunne]

Grand Master Pellegrini has received bad press from day one. Yet, he has been promoted by people who seem to be above question.

From past reviews on several other forums, those parties that Mr. P. received his promotions from have been questioned and then some. Anytime there are/is questionable references to one's background (ie; he was asked to leave the organization) and quick jumping of grade levels, people will naturally ask questions and look with a juandice eye at the offered responses.

Now as to fronting several organizations, he's serving the MA's community at large? Your opinion is your opinion and your naturally somewhat biased because you now belong, but looking from an outsiders position, other organizations under the same banner have been in place long before his offerings, so one can only position their opinion as to it is nothing more than reaching out for the almighty dollar. I have no personal heartburn with capitalism pre se, but I do have reservations when it's labeled as "for the good" of something, as in this case the MA's.

 

[Kumbajah]

Until you have to use it in a real situation, you don't know if you have been trained properly or not, regardless of your training method.

Anyway, I have yet to see one of you offer any proof or cite any study indicating learning from a DVD is an inferior method of learning.

There have been many studies that cite the pros and cons of distance learning. Most focus on academic subjects. see

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...lient=safari&rls=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart

I think if you insert another activity (rather than an academic subject) into the equation as to distance it from martial arts you might see it more clearly. Would you go to a golf instructor that learned from a correspondence course? Fly with a correspondence pilot? Etc.

Since we've done this dance - I'll give way to other posters.

 

[terrylamar]

There have been many studies that cite the pros and cons of distance learning. Most focus on academic subjects. see

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...lient=safari&rls=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart

I think if you insert another activity (rather than an academic subject) into the equation as to distance it from martial arts you might see it more clearly. Would you go to a golf instructor that learned from a correspondence course? Fly with a correspondence pilot? Etc.

Since we've done this dance - I'll give way to other posters.

I never said studies hadn't been done, only that none were being cited. There are problems with it, yes, there are, also, advantages. Proof is in the pudding, if it works for you, use it, if it doesn't work for you, bash it.

If a person can talk the talk, and walk the walk, sure, I have no problem learning from him. Who cares where or who he learned from? Can he teach you is the only question.

 

[terrylamar]

Now as to fronting several organizations, he's serving the MA's community at large? Your opinion is your opinion and your naturally somewhat biased because you now belong, but looking from an outsiders position, other organizations under the same banner have been in place long before his offerings, so one can only position their opinion as to it is nothing more than reaching out for the almighty dollar. I have no personal heartburn with capitalism pre se, but I do have reservations when it's labeled as "for the good" of something, as in this case the MA's.

Indeed, it is my own opinion and I am not stating it as otherwise. Naturally, you will agree, you are talking about your opinion as an outsider, with prejudice against GM P. and, therefore, his organizations.

Businesses come and go. Someone always thinks they can build a better mouse trap. Sometimes they can, other times they can't, they are still free to try. I do see value in the ICHF, ITA and IPDTI. The fact that you do not does not bother me. I just don't make it a point to come on someone elses thread and bash their organizations. I have better things to do with my time, like watch my DVD's and practice.

 

[Kumbajah]

"If it works..."

You just recently started this program to supplement the self defense part of you TKD program. You don't know yet if you are able to convey the information in a usable form and whether the students are able to absorb it, or even if it valuable workable information. I can appreciate you enthusiasm but you lack first hand knowledge that " it works" until you produce a "graduate" of this program that holds up to peer review- no? Yourself included. All you can reasonably say is "I hope that this program will be a benefit my TKD school." It seems a bit of hubris to say "it works"

 

[Brad Dunne]

I just don't make it a point to come on someone elses thread and bash their organizations.

Ah!, but here in lies the root of the problem. You offered up the initial information when you started this thread and then took offense when folks offered opposing views. Your happy with your choice of organizations, so it's really no big deal. :asian:

 

[Traditionalist]

lol -That was actually pretty funny. I can't wait for HD.

When you watch him stutter step through his techniques, I hope you realize what you been sold. You can stop the cycle.

Don't do it man. Don't do it.

Peace.

I do not know who this guy is but I did watch some of the combat hapkido videos on youtube and I agree his foot work was horrible. There as several times he chose to twist the guy here and there and he could have thrown the guy or did a take down to end the situation. Plus I wasn't too fond of his using the tips of his fingers as a strike on the neck. I can only comment on what I saw, but I thought all Hapkido is combat hapkido. I was always told that is why there really isn't any hapkido tournaments out there because hapkido is a killing martial art not a sport. (I know there are hapkido tournament but give me a break).