Gun or Knife?

[Les]

Originally posted by molson

Knife.. most people can be effective with a gun even with out alot of practice. Not everyone with a knife knows how to use it with effectiveness. I been to some knife seminars and realized that using a knife can be skilled.

Molson,

You're dead right when you say that using a knife can require skill, but personally I don't wan't to be injured by anyone, be they are skilled or not.

An unskilled opponent is more likely to act/react in an unpredictable way, which could catch even a skilled practitioner out.

Les

 

[Les]

Originally posted by True2Kenpo


If I was able to create reasonable distance between myself and my attacker, I think I would rather have them weild a knife. An attacker holding a gun at a good distance can really not be defended.
Respectfully In Kenpo,
Joshua Ryer

Joshua,

What would you consider to be a safe distance from an opponent with a knife?

Tests have shown that the average person can cover the following distances;

6ft in less than 0.5 second
12ft in less than 1 second
21ft in less than 1.5 seconds
40ft in less than 2.5 seconds

(Source; National Federation for Personal Safety)


Les

 

[Les]

Originally posted by Sigung86

My first thought on this question is that ... facing either one, I would have an overwhelming need to run! Run hard, run fast, and run serpentine. For the "most part", both weapons are ineffective in the hands of the average person with distances greater than 12 feet.

Dan

Dan,

Your reply was very interesting, your experience 'at the sharp end' gives credence to your opinions. It also goes to show that even in controlled situations the script can change without warning.

On the subject of distance, heres a thought.

Tests have shown that the average person can cover the following distances;

6ft in less than 0.5 second
12ft in less than 1 second
21ft in less than 1.5 seconds
40ft in less than 2.5 seconds

(Source; National Federation for Personal Safety)

Les

P.S.
Dan, you didn't actually answer the question.

 

[Les]

Originally posted by Cthulhu

Still the knife, because it requires little-to-no skill to use a gun. Hell, a DA-only revolver only needs to be pointed in your direction and fired...don't have to worry about pulling the hammer back, the semi-auto action of chambering a round, or even a safety. As long as the gun is loaded with the correct ammunition, just 'point and click'.

Sure, it doesn't really require much skill to slash or stab with a knife, but that bullet will be moving much faster than the knife.

Cthulhu

Cthulhu,

While I agree that the bullet will travel faster than the knife, once it has left the barrel of the gun it cannot change its direction, whereas the knife can.

Les

 

[Les]

I've enjoyed your replies to this thread, but unlike most of you, I feel that I'd prefer to take my chances with the gun than the knife.

In the hands of an 'expert' there is little chance of overcoming either weapon, but it most cases we won't be facing an expert.

When I say a knife, I'm not talking Crocodile Dundee.
A blade 3cm (1.4 inches) long will penetrate the ribcage.
A blade 4cm (1.6 inches) long will penetrate the heart.

In the UK, stabbing attacks account for the greatest rise in murders. (Source; Office for National Statistics)

Also in the UK, over three times as people are killed with a knife than with a gun. (Source; Office for National Statistics)

When someone pulls a gun on you, will you notice this? Probably! When someone pulls a knife? Maybe not.

In most attacks involving an edged weapon, the victim is already committed to the physical encounter before being aware that a weapon is involved.

Most victims who are knifed perceive the thrust or slice to be a punch at the time it is delivered.
(Those of you who said you would run have to see the knife coming first. Would you run from what appeared to be a punch?)

Here's some knife facts I use in my work as a Personal Safety training consultant. They come from specialist courses I have taken with the National Federation for Personal Safety.

Within it's range;

It has better stopping capabilities than a gun
It is psychologically intimidating
It is easy to conceal
It doesn't run out of ammunition
It doesn't jam
It doesn't misfire
The knife is the most accurate weapon for its range

FINAL WORDS

As Mr Parker told us, 'Distance is your best friend'

If you cannot create distance, be prepared to get hurt, but don't stop defending yourself when you do.

Try to remove the threat by:
Stopping the attacker
Stopping the delivery system
Controlling the delivery system

Empty Hand Skills are not an equal match for an armed attacker.

The aim of any defence is to
Survive the encounter
Create an opportunity to escape.

Sorry to be so long winded with this post.

Les

 

[Brother John]

WOW Les...
I really like what you have to say.
Mind if I cut and paste to word and save it in my personal files to teach my students?
Do you get royalties?

Your Brother
John

 

[Les]

Originally posted by Brother John

WOW Les...
I really like what you have to say.
Mind if I cut and paste to word and save it in my personal files to teach my students?
Do you get royalties?

Your Brother
John

John,

You are welcome to take whatever you feel will be useful to you.
So is any other member of this forum.
Royalties usually come in a bottle. Can you get Calvados in the States???

But please do remember that the statistics quoted are perhaps more relevant to the United Kingdom than the USA.

Your local government office or your local police authority should be able to point you to figures for your state or city. (Or the net)

Les

 

[ETorbin]

In my experience with knife and gun attacks the one major difference that hasn't been noted yet is who is acting/reacting. With kenpo knife attacks, we are reacting to a thrust, slice or stab and we must defend against a dangerous moving weapon.

Against a gun (we'll assume that it is pointed at your chest), your opponent is going to be waiting for you to do something like give your money to him, otherwise you would already be shot. This gives the defender the action vs. reaction advantage. Our opponent is no longer acting, he is waiting. By seizing the initiative at this point, the opponent must go through the entire OODA (observe, orient, decide, and act) loop which gives at least a .25 second reaction time advantage.

Neither prospect sounds fun to me, but given the choice between defending against a moving knife or a stationary gun, I might just take the gun.

ETorbin

 

[pineapple head]

At first i was adamant i would rather be atacked by the knife , but after Les's post which i read a few times , i think the gun would be the more favorable weapon. (to be attacked with).
As soon as you here knife you think 'easy i'll just run' , not as simple as that in reality.
I was walking down a school corridor when i was 15 years old and in passing a group of youths one lunged at me with a punch to the neck , it hurt but i just walked on , as i walked i was getting a little dizzy , i placed my hand on my neck to "rub it better" when i removed my hand it was covered in blood.
He had actually a corkscrew between his fist when he hit me.
I did not see the weapon so i could not run , this example just highlights how dangerous the knife actually is.

:asian: