Grandmasters

[funnytiger]

Geesh. I wonder if you think Terry's a fool for accepting a master's ranking.

I assume that by saying Terry "accepted" the master's ranking that he didn't just pencil it in on his business cards. I think that is the point of this whole conversation. Accepting a title and crowning yourself the grandmaster of golden cochroach shaolin kung fu are two totally different things.

In CMA its like a plague of people claiming to be masters, gradmasters and sifus.

 

[Marginal]

I assume that by saying Terry "accepted" the master's ranking that he didn't just pencil it in on his business cards. I think that is the point of this whole conversation.

That's just spinning what's been said. It's been largely negative against anyone who uses the GM title. Which is silly since GM is an earned rank in many systems. (Some are actually granted legitimately.)

 

[evenflow1121]

If you've earned the title grandmaster or master I dont see why you should not wear it proud such as a phd is referred to as a doctor. I mean if you ve spent 40+ years in a system, you have dedicated your life to a philosophy, whats the big deal? It s when you have the arrogant con artist that it becomes a problem, but a legitimate individual who earned that title through blood sweat and tears, I see nothing wrong with him or her wanting to be addressed as such.

 

[scottcatchot]

I think it becomes a matter of the indicidual more than the title. A person who is a true "grandmaster" will show throught the way they conduct themselves, perform in their art, basically have an overall air about them that shows they have a deep understanding of their art, philosophy, etc. Those who grandstand usually (from my experience) seem as though they have to prove something.
ANd of course their is always the question just what does it mean to be a "master"........

 

[terryl965]

I assume that by saying Terry "accepted" the master's ranking that he didn't just pencil it in on his business cards. I think that is the point of this whole conversation. Accepting a title and crowning yourself the grandmaster of golden cochroach shaolin kung fu are two totally different things.

In CMA its like a plague of people claiming to be masters, gradmasters and sifus.

First off since I'm the center of attention over the word Master than everybody here knows that I personally went 21 year between testing from 3rd to 4th and the only reason I did finally test is so I caould get my own son's KUKKIWON CERTIFIED WITHOUT THE POLITICS. I have never ask anybody to call me Maser and in my school the say SIR OR Mr. Stoker.
I have been actvily in MA MORE THAN 40 YEARS AND IN AL THAT TIME I HAE ONLY MEET A Handful of peple that BELIEVE TO BE A Gand Master and even less that could be called a Master. master needs to have atleast 20-25 years under there belt and a grandmaster needs to he atleast 40 plus and I'm no where close to being a grandmaster and hopefully I never will be!!
Terry

 

[terryl965]

Oh after sleeping last night and waking up over this thread about a dozen times, I would also like to add, me and the family will be at the meet and greet and then everybody will see for thereself that I"m a servent of my Art and with what little knowledge I have over forty years and the long road ahead for me to ever be a Grand Master. I strive everydayto be a little better that the day before, I loose some movement and gain some wisdom. But when the good lord look down upon and ask have you been humble and caring in your life, I can honestly look at him and say I sure have tried and when he say have you given back to those in need, I can say YES I have and hopefully it was enough for you Sir..

The main reason I wrote this above is sometimes, well for the most oart is sign Terry I:E on occasions I sign it Master Stoker and when I do it is to put that there so the person uderstand I'm not a newbie withen my Art, not trying to add confusen here.

My last tidbit is this to all the fine men and Ladys on MT and involved in this thread we are just bone and flesh that can be broken and healed over time the body is a mass machine, but the mind is a tiny engine and without positive re-enforcement will be just like a car engine without oil it will break and coolaspe without being able to be whole again it will run but it is never the same!!


I hope my little insight is to the better meant of this thread and I hope people sometimes can see what a word really is just a word.

Terry

 

[funnytiger]

Originally Posted by funnytiger
I assume that by saying Terry "accepted" the master's ranking that he didn't just pencil it in on his business cards. I think that is the point of this whole conversation. Accepting a title and crowning yourself the grandmaster of golden cochroach shaolin kung fu are two totally different things.

In CMA its like a plague of people claiming to be masters, gradmasters and sifus.

First off since I'm the center of attention over the word Master than everybody here knows that I personally went 21 year between testing from 3rd to 4th and the only reason I did finally test is so I caould get my own son's KUKKIWON CERTIFIED WITHOUT THE POLITICS. I have never ask anybody to call me Maser and in my school the say SIR OR Mr. Stoker.
I have been actvily in MA MORE THAN 40 YEARS AND IN AL THAT TIME I HAE ONLY MEET A Handful of peple that BELIEVE TO BE A Gand Master and even less that could be called a Master. master needs to have atleast 20-25 years under there belt and a grandmaster needs to he atleast 40 plus and I'm no where close to being a grandmaster and hopefully I never will be!!
Terry

It sounds a lot like you are trying to defend yourself against my comment which in actuality was saying that you are NOT like the ones who slap the title grandmaster onto their business cards. I feel like you jumped the gun there to defend yourself.

If I am misunderstanding YOUR post than I apologize.

With all respect.

 

[funnytiger]

That's just spinning what's been said. It's been largely negative against anyone who uses the GM title. Which is silly since GM is an earned rank in many systems. (Some are actually granted legitimately.)

I'm not saying that grandmaster is not a legitimate title. our system has a LEGITIMATE grandmaster as well. I am talking about people who have NOT earned the title and decide to place it on their resume anyways.

Geez...

 

[terryl965]

Originally Posted by funnytiger
I assume that by saying Terry "accepted" the master's ranking that he didn't just pencil it in on his business cards. I think that is the point of this whole conversation. Accepting a title and crowning yourself the grandmaster of golden cochroach shaolin kung fu are two totally different things.

In CMA its like a plague of people claiming to be masters, gradmasters and sifus.



It sounds a lot like you are trying to defend yourself against my comment which in actuality was saying that you are NOT like the ones who slap the title grandmaster onto their business cards. I feel like you jumped the gun there to defend yourself.

If I am misunderstanding YOUR post than I apologize.

With all respect.

Not defending myself but the thread itself, it is not about me at all it is how the thread is taking a turn in the wrong direction and I used myself as a sacifice to the thread to get itg back on topic.
terry

 

[Flying Crane]

Oh after sleeping last night and waking up over this thread about a dozen times, I would also like to add, me and the family will be at the meet and greet and then everybody will see for thereself that I"m a servent of my Art and with what little knowledge I have over forty years and the long road ahead for me to ever be a Grand Master. I strive everydayto be a little better that the day before, I loose some movement and gain some wisdom. But when the good lord look down upon and ask have you been humble and caring in your life, I can honestly look at him and say I sure have tried and when he say have you given back to those in need, I can say YES I have and hopefully it was enough for you Sir..

The main reason I wrote this above is sometimes, well for the most oart is sign Terry I:E on occasions I sign it Master Stoker and when I do it is to put that there so the person uderstand I'm not a newbie withen my Art, not trying to add confusen here.

My last tidbit is this to all the fine men and Ladys on MT and involved in this thread we are just bone and flesh that can be broken and healed over time the body is a mass machine, but the mind is a tiny engine and without positive re-enforcement will be just like a car engine without oil it will break and coolaspe without being able to be whole again it will run but it is never the same!!


I hope my little insight is to the better meant of this thread and I hope people sometimes can see what a word really is just a word.

Terry

Terry, don't loose sleep over this. I don't think anyone is targeting or attacking you. I think the community here is familiar with your history in the Arts and don't question your experience or motives. I think many people have a problem with many of the self-promoted Grandmasters who are driven by ego or profit but from my experience here on Martialtalk, I don't think you fall into that category and I think others here would agree with me. Sounds like maybe some wires got crossed and some things were misunderstood.

 

[Marginal]

I'm not saying that grandmaster is not a legitimate title. our system has a LEGITIMATE grandmaster as well. I am talking about people who have NOT earned the title and decide to place it on their resume anyways.

Geez...

Ah yes. How could I have misinterpreted,

Anyone who insists on being called grandmaster is probably not who he claims.

That is not saying what your'e saying now.

 

[funnytiger]

Ah yes. How could I have misinterpreted,



That is not saying what your'e saying now.

That is exactly what I am saying. Key word in the previous post was "insist". I am not disagreeing with you. I hope that clears some things up for you.

 

[Rich Parsons]

If you've earned the title grandmaster or master I dont see why you should not wear it proud such as a phd is referred to as a doctor. I mean if you ve spent 40+ years in a system, you have dedicated your life to a philosophy, whats the big deal? It s when you have the arrogant con artist that it becomes a problem, but a legitimate individual who earned that title through blood sweat and tears, I see nothing wrong with him or her wanting to be addressed as such.

Some truth here, yet, ...

Yet, the PhD who insists the guy he meets at the bar call him doctor is just like the martial artist who insists that the person he meets at teh grocery store calls him Grand Master

 

[Marginal]

Some truth here, yet, ...

Yet, the PhD who insists the guy he meets at the bar call him doctor is just like the martial artist who insists that the person he meets at teh grocery store calls him Grand Master

At the grocery store? I'd hope someone that self-important would have a cadre surrounding him at all times loudly barking the guy's title.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

The main reason I wrote this above is sometimes, well for the most oart is sign Terry I:E on occasions I sign it Master Stoker and when I do it is to put that there so the person uderstand I'm not a newbie withen my Art, not trying to add confusen here.

My last tidbit is this to all the fine men and Ladys on MT and involved in this thread we are just bone and flesh that can be broken and healed over time the body is a mass machine, but the mind is a tiny engine and without positive re-enforcement will be just like a car engine without oil it will break and coolaspe without being able to be whole again it will run but it is never the same!!
Terry

I was glad to see the times when you signed your posts as Master Stoker. The Kukkiwon certification that gave you the rank to sign that means that you are a legitimate expert in your martial art. Personally, I give greater weight to your posts on TKD and MA because of this.

The Martial Arts is NOT the only field that uses the rank master - master denoting a "master" craftsman or expert in their field. In painting in the traditional realist style, the term master is often used. For instance, my painting instructor Frank Covino is generally reffered to and acknowledged as a master painter and master artist. Many portrait and realistic painting organizations have a "master" member level that, while not used as a title before the name, is an acknowledgement of the individual's dedication and skill. I was heavily involved in the West Coast Society of Portrait Artists (which has since merged with another larger group) and we had members, signature artists, senior signature artists, and masters. Signature Artist would be roughly equivalent to a first or second dan and this is what, after over four years of active membership, and doing well at juried competitions, I achieved. The American Society of Classical Realism has it's own Guild composed of master painters. Whenever a workshop was held that members were considering attending, it would often be remarked that the artist giving the workshop was a "master" or near "master". The Renaissance art studios used such an expression as well.

It is only the self-promotion of many to that title and the false connotation the term for many in the West has of a messiah figure with adoring and obedient disciples that is the problem. The concept itself is sound.

Don't worry, no informed member of Martial Talk would quarrel with your designation, IMO, and I really don't think anyone was reffering to you personally. If so, disregard. Your post level, Moderator Status and Reputation level certainly mark you as a long-term positive contributor to Martial Talk and your knowledge of and dedication to the MA is undisputed.

 

[Drac]

We have no problems addressing someone who spent 7 years in medical as Doctor..Yet some have a problem addressing an individual who has invested 40 plus years teaching and refining the martial arts as Grandmaster???

 

[Rich Parsons]

At the grocery store? I'd hope someone that self-important would have a cadre surrounding him at all times loudly barking the guy's title.

One can wear a jacket for your club, but in this case the guy should be wearing a jacket with his title on the back in neon colors

 

[Adept]

We have no problems addressing someone who spent 7 years in medical as Doctor..Yet some have a problem addressing an individual who has invested 40 plus years teaching and refining the martial arts as Grandmaster???

I guess what my original post was getting at is this:

What exactly is the role of a grandmaster? What do they do, after becoming a grandmaster, that they couldn't do before?

If a grandmaster is a vital part of something like the martial arts, why don't we have them in football and tennis? Or to be more relevant, boxing or fencing?

We have people in these activities we might call masters, and we have halls of fame, etc, to reward people for dedication and excellence. But is that all a grandmaster title is? A reward?

I just don't see the need for grandmasters, as an official title.

 

[D.Cobb]

My TKD instructor recently went to Korea to test for his 7th Dan, which would give him the title of "GrandMaster". One thing that truly impresses me is that he does not wear a belt with stripes onnit, he wears his original BB that he was given from his instructor when he was 15/16 years old. He does not demand to be called Master or Grandmaster.

To me this is someone who truly knows what it means to be a Master/GrandMaster.

I knew that most styles have Master as a level you can grade to, but I didn't know that there were those that graded you to Grandmster. I guess if it's a legitimate rank, then why not use it.

But what about the guy who gets a blackbelt in one style, say Tang Soo Do (just an example), then goes and spends 3 months, if that, with an instructor in another style, say a highly marketed karate system. Then the second instructor gives him his Master certificate and promotes him to 6 or 7 Dan? Then a couple of years later, he promotes himself as Grandmaster...

--Dave

 

[D.Cobb]

If you've earned the title grandmaster or master I dont see why you should not wear it proud such as a phd is referred to as a doctor. I mean if you ve spent 40+ years in a system, you have dedicated your life to a philosophy, whats the big deal? It s when you have the arrogant con artist that it becomes a problem, but a legitimate individual who earned that title through blood sweat and tears, I see nothing wrong with him or her wanting to be addressed as such.

If like you say, he has spent 40+ years in a system, and dedicated his life to a philosophy, then I too see no problem with that.

--Dave