It's Raining Grand Masters.

[Brandon Fisher]

I have seen to many people over the years with ego's the size of the state of texas that really had no reason to have that ego. I have people try to call me master a lot and I hate it. My response is I am not a master of anything. Though I have a 6th dan and a renshi title from Okinawa I will always consider myself a student first and foremost. If I ever stop doing that I probably have lost my mind and need to quit teaching or just lay down and die. My gi has my school kanji embroidered on the chest and my association patch on my left arm just as it is outlined in the bylaws of the UMAA. My belt shows no rank just my school kanji and my first and last name. To me this is the way it should be.

Those that feel the need to show ego and brag more power to them. I won't stand up and say anything because I know that others know what I know.

 

[terryl965]

Well since it is raining Master can I have one medium rare with no onions.:lol:

 

[Tames D]

This has always been my thought, too. The only GM I know/have trained with looks like a little old man (which he is--70+), with a perm (which he has), and is one of the last guys on the planet I'd want mad at me. When you see him move, it's absolutely shocking. Oh, and he insists everyone call him by his first name.

So, everytime I get ready to move up, I think to myself, how would ______ see this? Would he think I'd earned it? (I can't train with him anymore). It's been a helpful plumbline for me.

OH, and after I posted I see the X-S beat me too it--again. :lol:

And Arni, too! :erg: There must be some mold these guys come out of.

LOL. I know who your talking about KW and damn if I have the balls to comment on his perm in public.

 

[kidswarrior]

LOL. I know who your talking about KW and damn if I have the balls to comment on his perm in public.

Well, let's just keep this between ourselves, then, OK? Don't want to get me killed, do ya?

 

[Sukerkin]

I couldn't disgaree with anything that has been written above.

My sensei is also in his 70's and I too wouldn't like to have to engage him, especially not with a sword (tho' he's actually higher rank in Karate by a grade than he is in MJER). He has no airs and graces - we call him "Sensei" because we chose to and that is what he is, not because he demands it of us.

Because I like to teach (also known as "having a big gob" ), I have had new people call me "Sensei". Now that makes me blush and I have to say something along the lines of "That's kind of you but I'm only Nidan - that's Sensei over there. I'm just showing you what he's taught me".

 

[tshadowchaser]

The few people I know today that may deserve the title of Grand Master would never, ever use the term to describe themselves. They may on occasion allow someone else to address them with such a title but rarely.
Now I did say those I feel deserve the title, for heaven knows there are enough people running around with strips all over their belts and patches on their uniforms say Grandmaster, but those folks usually bought their rank somewhere. Hell the same goes for those that introduce themselves as master, IMHO, if they need to introduce themselves that way they most likely do not deserve the title

 

[wade]

Geeze, y'all really have a problem with authority don't ya? There are some very legitimate high ranking MA's, not me so don't even go there, on this forum. So, y'all spend half your time lamenting why they don't post so that you can tap into their knowledge and then spend the rest of the time putting them down and making fun of their rank. They just can't win, can they? It's just sad, ya know?

 

[terryl965]

Geeze, y'all really have a problem with authority don't ya? There are some very legitimate high ranking MA's, not me so don't even go there, on this forum. So, y'all spend half your time lamenting why they don't post so that you can tap into their knowledge and then spend the rest of the time putting them down and making fun of their rank. They just can't win, can they? It's just sad, ya know?

Come on Wade you know how it is, for every legitiment one there is another twenty that is not. This is just they way it is.

 

[Nolerama]

I've noticed that the GM title itself can act as a marketing tool. Yes, that's good for (sorry about the stereotype) soccer moms who want some sort of credentials for their kids' instruction, as well as the GM who's taking in revenue... So I see soccer moms moving towards these GMs, regardless of their level of performance. They also attract people who, dare I say, make it a goal in life to be a GM as well. That sounds great, I guess, if that's what you want.

Personally, if I see a bunch of titles for an instructor, of an instructor I'm meeting for the first time introduces himself as such, then I'm a little wary. The bottom line is that I'm a customer, looking for a quality product. And if I can get that exact same product (technique) from a no-brands perspective, then show me the deal! I refuse to pay for packaging when it comes to MA.

I attempted CMAs for one week (I wish I could have it back), with the "Grand Master" instructor showing some Wing Chun movements and a few drills, but chided me every time I didn't call him "sifu" or "master" even when I called him "sir". WTF is up with that? I'm not paying for that!

A GM tag on someone turns me off as a student. That's like one of my professors stating prior to class that he's the "smartest guy alive". Show it, pal.

As a practitioner in MA, I'm happy to see a few places that focus their respect towards individual improvement and performance. Anyone can sew on a patch that says Grand Master. I think there's an aisle for such things at selected Sam's Clubs near you.

 

[wade]

A "GRAND MASTERS PATCH"? Oooooo, I want one of those. Maybe a small for the front then a freaking big one for the back. Do they come in more than one color combo?

Terry, you know I agree but it would have ruined my post if I said that in open forum. Sorry, "no onions" is not an option, you will have it our way!

Arnisador, I agree with you. Same reasoning as my answer to Terry.

 

[arnisador]

I've noticed that the GM title itself can act as a marketing tool. Yes, that's good for (sorry about the stereotype) soccer moms who want some sort of credentials for their kids' instruction, as well as the GM who's taking in revenue... So I see soccer moms moving towards these GMs, regardless of their level of performance.

I think that the general public simply assumes that there's some type of official body that regulates these things, so that a GM has achieved some standard of performance and prominence. After all, a person couldn't simply declare himself a GM, could he?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Aw, you know the answer to that one Arni.
That's why I skipped the GM step an went straight to Gawd hood. :rofl:

 

[Nolerama]

Are there really organizations that "sell" grandmaster titles? On a related note, has anyone noticed "certification" from certain organizations that should raise red flags? If so, in what flavors of MA does that frequently occur?

I mean, you can buy "certification" in organized religion. It would be naive to think that it doesn't exist in the MA world.

The people need to know

 

[terryl965]

Are there really organizations that "sell" grandmaster titles? On a related note, has anyone noticed "certification" from certain organizations that should raise red flags? If so, in what flavors of MA does that frequently occur?

I mean, you can buy "certification" in organized religion. It would be naive to think that it doesn't exist in the MA world.

The people need to know

People buy and sell rank everyday, this is one of the problem people talk about. In my city alone we have instructor that will sell there souls for the right price.

 

[MJS]

Are there really organizations that "sell" grandmaster titles? On a related note, has anyone noticed "certification" from certain organizations that should raise red flags? If so, in what flavors of MA does that frequently occur?

I mean, you can buy "certification" in organized religion. It would be naive to think that it doesn't exist in the MA world.

The people need to know

Yes, with the right amount of cash, people will promote you to anything. Check out ebay. I'm sure you will be surprised as to what you see. I've seen rank certificates, as well as belts designating a certain rank.

This is one of the reasons why its so important to do your homework before joining a school.

 

[YoungMan]

I think in some circles it's not uncommon for "Grandmasters" to "sign" for each other (sign a rank certificate) as a tit for tat, which explains why you get people with 8th Dans in 10 different arts. Not worth the paper it's printed on, but it sure looks good.
Personal peeve of mine: Instructors who use the term "Professor" to describe their role as a martial arts teacher, but having ro relationship with any university.

 

[grydth]

Yes, with the right amount of cash, people will promote you to anything. Check out ebay. I'm sure you will be surprised as to what you see. I've seen rank certificates, as well as belts designating a certain rank.

This is one of the reasons why its so important to do your homework before joining a school.

Sadly, this practice is not limited to the complete frauds. I have seen even reputable places let some losers past to high rank when Mr Green talks.

 

[Twin Fist]

Well, in defense of that the Title, many MA's use that title for differnt ranks. Kaju for example

I think in some circles it's not uncommon for "Grandmasters" to "sign" for each other (sign a rank certificate) as a tit for tat, which explains why you get people with 8th Dans in 10 different arts. Not worth the paper it's printed on, but it sure looks good.
Personal peeve of mine: Instructors who use the term "Professor" to describe their role as a martial arts teacher, but having ro relationship with any university.

 

[kidswarrior]

Well, in defense of that the Title, many MA's use that title for differnt ranks. Kaju for example

Good point. And the one or two I know of from that lineage would be of the *can back it up on the dance floor* variety MAist.

 

[Xue Sheng]

One thing I need to add about Chinese martial artists from China that come here to the US and have the skills and to back it up. Some decide and even demand to be called Grandmaster here in the good ole US of A. They actually can back up their claims but still in China and to other more traditional CMA Sifus here in the west the whole thing is quite silly.

I just wanted to add that so no one goes marching into a CMA school in the US and decides that the Chinese guy in the front of the room is a fake because he insists on being called Grandmaster, this can be a great way to get a free and painful lesson.

In China likely his peers would laugh him out of the room so he would not do this there but in the US we are so hung up on it that it sometimes they fall victim to their students hype.

I China as I said the term Grandmaster is either a respectful one to a dead CMA Sifu or it is a sarcastic one to a living CMA sifu...

or it is used to impress Westerners