It's Raining Grand Masters.

[Xue Sheng]

Which of course, Supreme Omnipotent Ruler {genuflects and looks away}, would be treachery of the highest order.

Speaking of Orders, I've decided to create one called the Way of the Supreme Ultimate Fist, so of course I'll have to be the Grand Master of that style (as can everyone else who sends me $5 for a genn-you-yne black&white injeted certif-e-kate) :ninja:.

HA.. I'll do it for $4.50 and throw in a length of black rope with wide masking tape stripes on it to show your rank

 

[Mantismaster]

Hello to all:

I can see the frustration that everyone has about these titles and from what I see most of you are just making this much bigger then what it is. First of all I have to correct something XS said, that in China a person who calls himself a GM would be laughed at by his peers. Well, sorry XS but that is not true, the only way your peers would laugh at you, would be if you really didn't have it.

There is much fraud in China as in the USA (for crying out loud China is the capitol of the world when it comes to FRAUD). First of all the title GM is bestowed upon the individual who happens to be the head of his family (it's not like you take an exam for it). Now take me for instance been in the CMA for 38 years and still training and have my own students. I was chosen among 14 other training brothers to become a closed-door disciple and successor to my teacher.

What does that mean, well my teacher is the GM to our system and lineage (he is the Kung Fu Grandfather to all of his students students.) So when a student say to my Sifu (teacher) Sigung (Grandmaster) it's more like calling him granpa. It's just a rank of respect and lets the smart individual understand that he has been around a long time and it's the head of the family.

You can only be the GM of your organization and nothing else, i mean how many times do we see in the paper so and so doctors arrested for mal practice yet their offices were wall to wall with credentials. Is there to much ego here in the US absolutely yes, but it's also world wide. Most americans now a days travel to China to train or any other part of the world to get the knowledge that they are seeking, and when you get there you find out that TOKYO JOE or SHANGHAI JOE who is teaching in the USA or what ever part of the world some of you come from, is a fake and never completed their training in that particular style.

This is why it is important to be able and trace your traditional martial arts lineage, because this is a true record submitted by your instructor into the records of your particular art. It's like saying you graduated from a particular University and your employer wants to verify that you did graduate from that particular school and he/she will contact that university to get verification, and if you graduated "walla" your name will appear.

Now the thing about the name Professor isn't that a person who professes knowledge to others? it's just a name who cares, what's important is the knowledge that he/she is sharing. Just because one particular teachers prefers to be call "Sir" vs "Sifu, Sensei or what ever" it's doesn't mean that he/she is egotistic, they workd hard for the title and should be addressed as so. If I graduated with a PH.D you better believe that I would want to be called DR. for all the hard work I have put in my profession, same thing goes for the martial arts. Just remember that no other field of philosophy does an individual study more (years) then in the martial arts. All these statements refer to Traditional MA and their decendants.

So who cares if Joe down the street wants to call himself this and that, because "the prove is in the pudding" and thats when everyone becomes enlighten.

Peace
Mantismaster

 

[morph4me]

If someone’s style has a Grandmaster and it is legitimate then great but it is the incredibly large numbers of grand masters that appear to be popping up out of nowhere that I find a bit odd...that is unless of course now the rules have changed and I was not invited to the meeting

It's all part of the In Flight service on some airlines, you get on the plane in Japan as a yellow belt and you land in the US a grandmaster, or I study my art for a year, add another 6 months of your art, and another couple of months of somene else's art for good measure, and then combine my vast knowledge and start my own system and become Soke. It's all in the minutes

 

[IcemanSK]

Iceman I am going to recommend that you become the Grand Master of all GrandMaster for the above statement

Please send $5000.00 US dollars

so we can send you back the certificate signed by everybody you do not know this will be something to have and to chearish forever.

PS Yes Georeg W Bush needs his name on his Jacket he get so mix up these days

$5K?! That's it?! Excellent!

It's not even that W. has his name on his jacket that gets me: but that it says, "President" George W. Bush on it. Like HE's the one who needs the reminder.

 

[terryl965]

$5K?! That's it?! Excellent!

It's not even that W. has his name on his jacket that gets me: but that it says, "President" George W. Bush on it. Like HE's the one who needs the reminder.

He does and since we are like family I will reduce the price to a meer $2500.00, I got mine for a steal only $3500.00 ten years ago, I am the grand wizard of Post whoring you know.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Speaking of Orders, I've decided to create one called the Way of the Supreme Ultimate Fist, so of course I'll have to be the Grand Master of that style (as can everyone else who sends me $5 for a genn-you-yne black&white injeted certif-e-kate):ninja: .

You do realise that in China this might be called Taiji Quan Tao, don't you? Could be some serious school wars in your future.

You can only be the GM of your organization and nothing else, i mean how many times do we see in the paper so and so doctors arrested for mal practice yet their offices were wall to wall with credentials.

If it were only the case that we saw only a single GM for an organisation it would make more sense. But I think the reason we are seeing this proliferation of GMs is because the concept has lost any possible meaning it once had and it has just become a rank description. It may be that organisations have taken TKD as an example, with its multiple kwans it has multiple GMs (but I suspect even TKD has many more GMs than kwans these days) and assumed that when a person reaches a heady height they get called Grand Master.

Marketing is the only real reason I can see for people to claim GM positions with multiple organisations. A ploy to bring in the rubes - "Your teacher is a Grand Master? Well mine is Grand Master in six martial arts." It's a bit sad really. It not only corrupts the legitimacy of those people who we all consider real GMs, it completely devalues and renders meaningless the entirety of the title, bringing nothing but scepticism, scorn, and ridicule.

Now the thing about the name Professor isn't that a person who professes knowledge to others? it's just a name who cares, what's important is the knowledge that he/she is sharing.

The title professor comes from the latin professor - one who is professed to be an expert in an art or science. That certainly does not render it incompatible with the martial arts, and for Europe it might be wholly appropriate. The problem with the title stems from a strange glich in FMA history. As Arnisador pointed out Remy Presas just happened to be both an expert in MAs and a professor. He was called professor and so others came to the belief that it was. like Grand Master, just the name for a high rank. There are many experts who use the title nowadays. It may seem appropriate, but it was not bestowed as a professorship should be.

I think it comes down to this: just because I can take and use the title Grand Master or Professor doesn't mean I should. These titles are given not taken.

 

[Sukerkin]

You do realise that in China this might be called Taiji Quan Tao, don't you?

{scribbles down furiously for use on certificates} .

Could be some serious school wars in your future.

Ha! I laugh in the face of fear ... then I run away and hide until the Police arrive :shudders:.

I think it comes down to this: just because I can take and use the title Grand Master or Professor doesn't mean I should. These titles are given not taken.

On a serious note, as well as the words I did not include in the quote for brevity, this is a very important point that ST makes.

 

[grydth]

This paraphrases one of the best lessons my father ever taught me. He noted that I was very fast with both fists and verbal cuts as a teenager..... and one day he told me," Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it." Thanks for reminding me, once again, of the wisdom this man handed down.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hello to all:

First of all I have to correct something XS said, that in China a person who calls himself a GM would be laughed at by his peers. Well, sorry XS but that is not true, the only way your peers would laugh at you, would be if you really didn't have it.

There is much fraud in China as in the USA (for crying out loud China is the capitol of the world when it comes to FRAUD). First of all the title GM is bestowed upon the individual who happens to be the head of his family (it's not like you take an exam for it). Now take me for instance been in the CMA for 38 years and still training and have my own students. I was chosen among 14 other training brothers to become a closed-door disciple and successor to my teacher.

What does that mean, well my teacher is the GM to our system and lineage (he is the Kung Fu Grandfather to all of his students students.) So when a student say to my Sifu (teacher) Sigung (Grandmaster) it's more like calling him granpa. It's just a rank of respect and lets the smart individual understand that he has been around a long time and it's the head of the family.

You can only be the GM of your organization and nothing else, i mean how many times do we see in the paper so and so doctors arrested for mal practice yet their offices were wall to wall with credentials. Is there to much ego here in the US absolutely yes, but it's also world wide. Most americans now a days travel to China to train or any other part of the world to get the knowledge that they are seeking, and when you get there you find out that TOKYO JOE or SHANGHAI JOE who is teaching in the USA or what ever part of the world some of you come from, is a fake and never completed their training in that particular style.

This is why it is important to be able and trace your traditional martial arts lineage, because this is a true record submitted by your instructor into the records of your particular art. It's like saying you graduated from a particular University and your employer wants to verify that you did graduate from that particular school and he/she will contact that university to get verification, and if you graduated "walla" your name will appear.

Now the thing about the name Professor isn't that a person who professes knowledge to others? it's just a name who cares, what's important is the knowledge that he/she is sharing. Just because one particular teachers prefers to be call "Sir" vs "Sifu, Sensei or what ever" it's doesn't mean that he/she is egotistic, they workd hard for the title and should be addressed as so. If I graduated with a PH.D you better believe that I would want to be called DR. for all the hard work I have put in my profession, same thing goes for the martial arts. Just remember that no other field of philosophy does an individual study more (years) then in the martial arts. All these statements refer to Traditional MA and their decendants.

So who cares if Joe down the street wants to call himself this and that, because "the prove is in the pudding" and thats when everyone becomes enlighten.

Peace
Mantismaster

If you are talking a Chinese MA guy telling a Westerner he is a Grandmaster then yup it happens all the time. This is why there are Chinese MA guys with websites in Chinese that do not mention grand master and the english website does. I did mention that already in my first post in this thread

Family heads of systems, as far as I know are not called grandmaster while living it tends to be after they pass away but since I do not train or know every single CMA family or every single system it could be some are. However again if you are taking westerner then I would not doubt it was said to them at all.

Fraud in China, yup again it is there in the MA but again it tends to be aimed at westerners. I belevie there is a post somewhere on MT of mine taking about training in China that pretty much says it is buyer beware.

And laugh at was not the best example, lets say not taken seriously would have been better. But if you are a Chinese MA guy in China and you are going around telling ANYONE in China you are form a specific lineage or a higher level Student of a certain sifu or the lineage holder and you are and the real students, lineage holders or higher level students find out you will be in for a bit of trouble. Happened with Yiquan in Beijing actually.

Again fraud in China aimed at Westerners yup, sure is there. Fraud in China aimed at Chinese, yup that to exists too but a CMA guy in North China (I just realized I really do not know what goes on in the South today with this I only know about the CMA world of the South pre-1960) going around calling himself Grandmaster in Chinese is not taken seriously.

And does Sigung actually translate directly to Grandmaster?

I have not idea what your experience is with this nor do I wish to argue about it I can only post based on my experience and research.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just remember, I'm the Grand Darth of Kungate. Even have a nice Soke certificate and everything.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just remember, I'm the Grand Darth of Kungate. Even have a nice Soke certificate and everything.

:bow:

 

[newGuy12]

Soke certificate and everything.

I have to admit. That is a good looking cert there!

 

[theletch1]

I have to admit. That is a good looking cert there!

I particularly like the "salute".

 

[The Master]

I see that many here understood my message. Bravo.

I mention his age, and assorted ranks and title, and add that his training started quite young. He does in fact have approximately 30 years of martial art training. Some of the arts he trained in he came up from a white belt, tested, and studied. however many of the other arts are simply cross-ranked into, a few he has had no training in at all, but holds high rank. He markets his system as many do. "Real Techniques for the Street", and as a modern art stripped of the "useless techniques" of the past.

While he is an excellent mat technician, and a champion at forms which he executes crisply and with a snap, he has not had an actual fight since his late high school days, has never seen service in any nations military, and has not even been "fortunate" to walk out of his office to his automobile and find so much as a beggar much less a few street smart thugs waiting.

The point and question is, is he a Master, or does that require more than paper and practice?