Fresh Air.

[Genin Andrew]

Irony... gotta love it...

Jeff

LMAO love your work Jeff...

Don, you asked for my impressions of Sojobow...

No i didnt really go into this thread with an open mind because i have read alot of Sojobows material before...and...well...i tried not to be to biased...

Sojobow i dont know you or anything about you or what you do,all i have to judge you on is your posts. I dont want to look down on you and judge you but as Enson Sujested its probably time for some "fresh air" and a little intermission to see where we're both coming from...

You have said very little on martialtalk and other forums that i agree with,almost nothing. Not only because it challenges my own knowledge but because you have not once 'elaborated' on your comments or the "history" that you have told me. I have on many occasions asked you questions respectfully wanting to know sources and further information referring to the claims you make,i have repeated some of those questions many times because you "strategically" (in your mind) have neglected them. I then became a little more aggressive with my approach to getting answers from you and still yet...

You have NOT ONCE given me any answers to any of my questions nor have you elaborated on your comments (which i also asked for). To me this is quite disrespectful as you blatantly ignore me and then act as though you have nothing against me and respect me and my knowledge.

That mentality may work and get you places in Dux-Ryu but it doesnt work for me,on any level. Some of the things you say Sojobow would be offensive to higher Ninjutsu practitioners and historians they are that far off the mark, if i didnt have such a good sense of humour i too would be offended at some point.Lucky for me and others, I am not the person to let such little vibrations in the web disturb me...

I do hope out of respect for yourself and the credibility of your position as a MAist that you are able to atleast attempt to answer my questions. And again for your own sake you could maybe bring yourself up a level and quit frollocking around in the fairytales you seem to be indulging in so freely...

Then maybe myself and others,will take more notice of your take on Ninja history and what you have to offer us here on martialtalk...thankyou.

much respect
-andrew

 

[DuckofDeath]

My kids just fall out laughing at me.

Is one of your kids a little Paul Warren, Jr. by any chance?

**Url Edited due to Content linking to material inappropriate for Martial Talk's family G Rating**

 

[sojobow]

You have said very little on martialtalk and other forums that i agree with,almost nothing. Not only because it challenges my own knowledge but because you have not once 'elaborated' on your comments or the "history" that you have told me. I have on many occasions asked you questions respectfully wanting to know sources and further information referring to the claims you make,i have repeated some of those questions many times because you "strategically" (in your mind) have neglected them. I then became a little more aggressive with my approach to getting answers from you and still yet...
much respect -andrew

Ask again your question. I will then (1) answer the question once again (2) show you where I previously answered your question and (3) again give you the reference (if available). Then, I am hopefull that you will post your own take on this history. You and others constantly complain and point out that I am wrong but you never show me what in particular is incorrect and why it is incorrect. I also see many times that you first agree with me but then say that I am incorrect which is very confusing. You say that you never agree with me but you seemed to agree with my very first post.

No effort on my part is made with the idea of changing anyone's mind or teaching anyone anything. I make a proposed statement and hope that those reading will help me to correctly form the lines. I get no help, only complaints with no correcting suggestions. I will admit that sometimes I will make mistakes such as saying Philipines when I really meant to say Okinawa or, your favorite, eastern russia versus the region now called eastern russia.

Why spend all this effort in doing your best to find even the most minute part of a sentence incorrect versus understanding the overally structure is also something that confuses me.

Again, ask your question and I will re-answer it for you. Then I hope to read a take on history from you. I don't mind if you just cut&paste a history taken from some other website. I just want to read other's ideas. I can glean what I think is usefull to me from what is posted. References are unnecessary as the object is to reveal ideas.

(Note: You do understand that you have asked for certain information and documents that you know don't exist. Strange request is it not?)

Now that I think on it, if I get the time, I'll go over each and every one of your posts and prove to you that I've answered your questions. I'll definately look forward to your response to that.

 

[Kreth]

On another forum (or maybe this one, I'm getting old), sojobow was given the nickname Snowjob to reflect his constant dodging of questions amid claims that he's answered all of them. Maybe this thread should have been titled "Hot Air".

Jeff

 

[KenpoTess]

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[Enson]

My mistake. Won't happen again. 36 sleepless hours are killing me.

========================================================

i will accept that as an apology. the only problem with your article is that it comes from the net. now anyone can write an article on the net. i.e. i can write an article on "koga" throw a few dates out there and act like i know it all. but in reality it could be all crap and people might believe me. you can get the same kinda crap from books too. only this time you are the fool for paying for such a book.

i would prefer to think of ninjutsu as a concept. a concept where anyone loyal and dedicated can follow. i.e. jkd concept. (this will probably get twisted and taken out of context ((it will be fun to see how)) i respect the epak guys. most don't claim to be taken in as a baby and taught epak from a japanese grandmaster. they honor and respect an american man for taking a japanese concept and making better for him and generations to come. i respect all other styles. i don't respect false claims. if your instructor was "joe blow" then honor him and what he taught you. if it works for you... use it!

 

[sojobow]

i will accept that as an apology. the only problem with your article is that it comes from the net.

Not sure what article you're referencing. Regardless, I don't see how an article taken from the enternet presents a problem simply because it was placed on the net.

i would prefer to think of ninjutsu as a concept. a concept where anyone loyal and dedicated can follow. i.e. ......

Byjove, I think he's got it. A concept is exactly what I've been saying for the entire time on the net in these discussions. Don't think 'loyalty" is a pre-requisit. However, IMOHO, at one time, we were asked to present a battleplan/battle strategy. The battleplan was implimented and if the plan didn't work and our army lost, you were beheaded. Needless to say, those well-paid successfull strategist were constantly researching for better strategies, researching proven strategies and, if possible, practicing our strategies and as a result of this process of developmental strategic concepts, Ninjitsu (as a profession) was born.

Most of use look at Ninjitsu as a "Martial Art" and concentrate more of our effort in practicing the physical aspect like taijutsu, weapons trainings etc. Things we can easily see. But, Ninjitsu is much, much more than physical fighting (IMOHO). A concept of developing why things work. A profession.

 

[Genin Andrew]

Now that I think on it, if I get the time, I'll go over each and every one of your posts and prove to you that I've answered your questions. I'll definately look forward to your response to that.[/QUOTE]
I will wait in patience for this post...

"But, Ninjitsu is much, much more than physical fighting (IMOHO). A concept of developing why things work. A profession."

Sojobow,i think you will find that almost all Ninjutsu/Ninjukai/Tew Ryu practitioners agree with you on that level and we are all very aware that the art of the Ninja is far more than Taijutsu. Now you stated that Ninjutsu ( i refuse to use the phrase ninjitsuism...) was not a martial art more a "concept" I dont think Enson ment that at all,I'm sure he still sees it as an ART.

Lets look at the phrase, "martial" most commonly referring to "combat" and now "art" so we have combat art. Art is a very general term, and i will agree many MA organisations do neglect the spiritual/"artistic/other side to there art and only focus on taijutsu and strength etc. But after a little research etc you will come to understand that Ninjutsu is not one of these arts and is indeed a Martial Art.

much respect
-andrew

 

[Enson]

Now you stated that Ninjutsu ( i refuse to use the phrase ninjitsuism...) was not a martial art more a "concept" I dont think Enson ment that at all,I'm sure he still sees it as an ART.

much respect
-andrew

thank you genin... i still consider ninjutsu as an art/science, but in that you will find the ninjutsu concept (i hope that makes sense). i will once again use epak or jkd... they are still martial arts but even in the different titles/styles/names of their schools they still have a concept they believe/trust/follow. whether it be rtms, ninjukai, xkan, etc. there should be a certain "concept" that is followed but should always be ninjutsu arts!

peace

 

[Kreth]

Now that I think on it, if I get the time, I'll go over each and every one of your posts and prove to you that I've answered your questions. I'll definately look forward to your response to that.

I will wait in patience for this post...

Don't hold your breath...

Jeff

 

[Genin Andrew]

oh dont worry Jeff,i wont.I'm going to bed
Maybe the morning will awake Sojobow and bring some answers...maybe not.

 

[sojobow]

You have NOT ONCE given me any answers to any of my questions nor have you elaborated on your comments (which i also asked for). To me this is quite disrespectful as you blatantly ignore me and then act as though you have nothing against me and respect me and my knowledge.

That mentality may work and get you places in Dux-Ryu but it doesnt work for me,on any level.much respect
-andrew

Thought you might have retracted that post by now. But, I understand.
Pardon the delay. There was a problem with my username/password/email address/response from the webmaster.

Your post #2 had a number of questions (3 or 4). I answered them in my post #4.
Your post #6 contained questions (regarding children) which were somewhat unclear. You answered your own questions thereafter. I replied in the very next post. I also answered the reference question in post #8 then added more in my post #12.
(Note: thus far, you have agreed with me on quite a few points in both of your posts.)
Your Post #19, meant to correct me on the title Five Rings was noted. This post was answered, in detail, in my post #23.
Your post #27 was simply another misreading of my post directed to Mr. Roley. We all do this, so no big deal.
#48. Nothing of any importance other than you agreeing with me once again. Actually, "martial" has another definition in Webster's. But, when the complete phrase "martial art" is used, the term "martial" itself take on another completely different definition drawn to "purpose" eg., we define the complete term "Martial Art" by defining it purpose versus defining each word individually.
Now, back to your post #41.
You said: "You have said very little on martialtalk and other forums that i agree with,almost nothing."
Response: You've agreed with me in just about every post by your own words.
You said: "you have not once 'elaborated' on your comments or the "history"
Response: I am the ONLY person to elaborate on "history." Asked for yours too. Not forthcomming as of yet.
You said: "You have NOT ONCE given me any answers to any of my questions nor have you elaborated on your comments (which i also asked for)."
Response: Nowithstanding yourself and a couple of other's, seems I have not once MISSED answering your questions as proven in this post and enumerated above.
You said: "repeated some of those questions many times because you "strategically" (in your mind) have neglected them."
Response: Other than your "russian ninja" or philapino ninja (which was corrected to Okinawan versus Philip's, haven't read any repeats
that were not repeatedly answered as shown above.
The remainder of your post #41 contained just simple insults which require no response. Actually, the entire post was an attemped insult as none of it's contents are true inclusive of your usual "much respect." Could be someone posted for you and then you came in without reading what they said on your behalf, or you are simple not being honest as I have answered your every pertinent questions; I have elaborated, and am the only person in this thread to do so; you have agreed with me in more of your post than not so, realistically, it hard for me to understand why you made up Post #41 other than expressed above or you are trying to be recruited.
Either way, at least you posted something. And, as afforementioned, I'm not your enemy. Why you've taken this antagonist attitude, I think, really has to do with your training and devotion to traditionalism. Historians have written extensively on the subject of Traditionalism and most came to the opinion, that traditionalism breeds tyranny.
This is why the owners of this forum split the Ninjutsu into subsections. If I posted in the Kan section, the same problems would exist. If you concentrated you communications in that section, we wouldn't be having this conversation and you'd be a lot happier.

Now, try sticking to the subject and not trying to spar with me personally.

 

[Kreth]

I also answered the reference question in post #8 then added more in my post #12.

*SNORT* You answered the reference question how? Not by posting the contents of your library. Someone who had really done the research would have been able to footnote each fact, specifying a title, author, and page number. You were just throwing up a smokescreen and hoping everyone bought it. Nice try, thanks for playing.

Jeff

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Pardon the delay. There was a problem with my username/password/email address/response from the webmaster.

huh?

 

[Genin Andrew]

huh?

Thats what i seem to say after reading all of Sojobows posts, but Sojobow if you feel you have answered my questions then that is fine, I wasnt too serious about getting answers from you as they are obviously beyond your research.I am not your enemy either,just dont like reading rubbish.

p.s. I am a very happy man.

much respect
-andrew

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Looks like either his or my email was slow to deliver today, but there was an issue, it was resolved. At least I understand 1 thing here now.

 

[sojobow]

Microsoft decided to change the route to certain folders without my knowing. Decided to put things where they thought they should be versus where I set the folders' filters. Took me a few days to figure it out. Found that your replies were timely. Thanks webmaster.

 

[sojobow]

*SNORT* You answered the reference question how? Not by posting the contents of your library. Someone who had really done the research would have been able to footnote each fact, specifying a title, author, and page number. You were just throwing up a smokescreen and hoping everyone bought it. Nice try, thanks for playing.

Jeff

I consider giving someone a name or a title as a good reference. Guess thats because that is usually all I need to know. I'll do the rest. I also know that Andrew really wouldn't have looked them up anyway so why bother. If he was interested enough to look them up, there is enough information posted to do so. Search Engines work quite well. Most of the references are also quite ordinary in that anyone in Ninjitsu/Ninjutsu would have long ago studied these references and would know exactly where the references can be found. Appreciate your interest but I would like to get back to historical summaries versus these personal hits by someone having nothing to do with the subject at hand. You're dismissed.

 

[sojobow]

Thats what i seem to say after reading all of Sojobows posts, but Sojobow if you feel you have answered my questions then that is fine, I wasnt too serious about getting answers from you as they are obviously beyond your research.I am not your enemy either,just dont like reading rubbish.

p.s. I am a very happy man.

much respect
-andrew

You might want to simply stop reading my post. I already knew that you were not serious when you posted #41 (it speaks for itself) and most of the rest of your post. However, I did give my word that I would go back through my post and answer your post, which I did. I even found another "source" and posted the entire page to enhance even further discussions . Where are yours? Where are Kreth's? Add Something!

 

[sojobow]

Nice try, thanks for playing.
Jeff

Soke Kreth,
I noticed one of your prior post to Enson of Tew Ryu Ninjitsu. Here is what you said:
"Misguided Minds.....
Reply to Enson
"The Ninjutsu forum is a subforum under the Japanese Martial Arts forum. Therefore, if your ninjutsu/ninjitsu [sic] lineage has no ties to Japan, you should not be posting here. Jeff Velten."
Now, notwithstanding your ownership of this forum which gives you the right to be so narcistic, I beg you to read and comprehend the link to this section.
The link to this sections says basically: "this forum is for the discussion of Modern or "Neo" Ninjutsu and those not recognized as fitting the definition of "Traditional". This would include the more modern adaptations and developments such as Tew Ryu, Toshindo and other mordern variations."
Since your Bujinkan formated answer to Enson was so eloquent, why then does your ownership of this forum not apply to this subsection? Inquiring minds want to know. Maybe Mr. Kaith Rustaz can assist us with this new Limited Partnership you've developed. Go as you please, come as you please, but I do think you should take note your own hypocracy and start adding to the discussions versus teaching us non-"traditionalist" as we don't pay dues. Feel free to correct my english grammar, spelling, diction and phonics. Always willing to learn.
My intent was to edit my prior post to you however, took me too long to write these big words.