Fraud, or Just don't know better...
- Thread starter iron_ox
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OP
iron_ox
Black Belt
The Kai said:
Hello Todd,
TaeKwonDo Times has a "pay and play" policy - if you get an ad in the back, you get so many little "blurb" stories per year, if you pay $5000, you own the cover, 7 pages inside and 300 copies of that issue, do you really think they interview most of these goofs?
OP
OP
iron_ox
Black Belt
The Kai said:
Hello Todd,
Frankly, I'm firing off an email today to the editor in chief of TKDT. We may not all get along here always on the board, but at least we seem to have a somewhat consistant idea of what Hapkido is. A clown like Schumacher just screws up the works for a lot of us that really care about how this art is perceived as an art...
W
whalen
Guest
iron_ox said:
If enough people contact them and tell them they may stop purchasing the Magazine in protest maybe they will listen ?
It might be worth a shot.
Hal Whalen
W
whalen
Guest
iron_ox said:
"Remember united we stand devided we fall"
Hal
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Just an aside.....
I understand that people are a bit annoyed at things, but you also may want to include in your e-mails what it is that you want to see, and what you, yourself, would be willing to do to contribute to the magazine if they follow your original suggestion. There is a rewason that they print crap..... when crap is all they get, right?
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I understand that people are a bit annoyed at things, but you also may want to include in your e-mails what it is that you want to see, and what you, yourself, would be willing to do to contribute to the magazine if they follow your original suggestion. There is a rewason that they print crap..... when crap is all they get, right?
Best Wishes,
Bruce
OP
OP
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
Here is some contact info for TaeKwonDo Times:
Greg Ryman Editor in Chief
gregryman@taekwondotimes.com
EDITORIALS AND READERS FORUMS
We welcome comments and suggestions regarding the content of TKDT, or opinions and comments about the martial art community. We reserve the right to edit all editorials and letters. Letters must include your name and address. Direct Editorial or Readers Forum departments.
Here is some of the summission requirements:
Students, instructors and masters from Korean, Japanese, Chinese Filipino or any legitimate system are invited to submit articles, news releases, tournament results, etc. to TKDT.
any legitimate system...I think this might be a good area to start rippin...
Here is some contact info for TaeKwonDo Times:
Greg Ryman Editor in Chief
gregryman@taekwondotimes.com
EDITORIALS AND READERS FORUMS
We welcome comments and suggestions regarding the content of TKDT, or opinions and comments about the martial art community. We reserve the right to edit all editorials and letters. Letters must include your name and address. Direct Editorial or Readers Forum departments.
Here is some of the summission requirements:
Students, instructors and masters from Korean, Japanese, Chinese Filipino or any legitimate system are invited to submit articles, news releases, tournament results, etc. to TKDT.
any legitimate system...I think this might be a good area to start rippin...
OP
OP
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
I want to swing this in another direction for a second. Looking at another forum, the conversation came up about distance learning courses. Love them or hate them, not really the issue yet.
Someone said they were looking at one offered by the following group:
www.worldhapkido.com
They have a program done by a guy named Choe. Now, another poster mentioned that this guy was in jail for a 2001 manslaughter conviction, here is a link to that:
http://tkdtutor.com/04Students/Goals/BlackBelt.htm
QUOTE:
6/7/2001, by Noel S. Brady, reporter for Eastside Journal in Washington State
A martial arts master yesterday struck a plea bargain with prosecutors and admitted to wielding a samurai sword that caused the death of a Bellevue business man.
Hui Son Choe, 40, pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter for the death of 37-year-old Ki Gol Lee, which occurred after an argument between the two men turned violent.
King County Prosecutor's spokesman Dan Donohoe said the state will recommend a judge sentence Lee to 9½ years in prison. A sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 29.
At the time of the April 2000 melee, Choe lived in Spanaway and ran a martial arts school in Federal Way. A seventh-degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, Choe also was well respected as a master and innovator of Hap Ki Do, a lesser-known martial art about which he's written a book.
A Korean immigrant who helped other Koreans secure home and business loans, Lee showed up at Choe's dojo and confronted him in a parking lot there, prosecutors say. Witnesses told police the two began arguing, but a fight broke out after Choe rushed Lee with a drawn samurai sword.
The fight ended after Lee sustained a 2½-foot-long gash to his inner right thigh, severing his femoral artery. He died early the next morning at Harborview Medical Center.
Detectives followed a trail of blood into Choe's school. Inside, they found a bloody samurai sword and blood-spattered clothing that matched witness' descriptions of the sword fighter.
They later arrested Choe at his Spanaway home.
Donohoe said it's still unclear what the two men where arguing about. Prosecutors originally charged Choe with second-degree murder, but that charge was reduced for lack of evidence, he said.
``We felt there were some proof problems to get murder-two,'' he said.
A little more checking and yep, this guy is in jail for 9.5 years - yet this sleazy organization still sells his course, and says that Choe' "personal agenda" no longer allows him to assist with online courses - right because he's locked up!
Now, why do I call this organization sleazy? Becasue there is no mention anywhere that this money from this program is going to help the family of Mr. Lee - the man who was killed. Love to here from anyone connected with these lowlifes. Get the word out, and maybe this organization can go bye-bye.
Comments?
I want to swing this in another direction for a second. Looking at another forum, the conversation came up about distance learning courses. Love them or hate them, not really the issue yet.
Someone said they were looking at one offered by the following group:
www.worldhapkido.com
They have a program done by a guy named Choe. Now, another poster mentioned that this guy was in jail for a 2001 manslaughter conviction, here is a link to that:
http://tkdtutor.com/04Students/Goals/BlackBelt.htm
QUOTE:
6/7/2001, by Noel S. Brady, reporter for Eastside Journal in Washington State
A martial arts master yesterday struck a plea bargain with prosecutors and admitted to wielding a samurai sword that caused the death of a Bellevue business man.
Hui Son Choe, 40, pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter for the death of 37-year-old Ki Gol Lee, which occurred after an argument between the two men turned violent.
King County Prosecutor's spokesman Dan Donohoe said the state will recommend a judge sentence Lee to 9½ years in prison. A sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 29.
At the time of the April 2000 melee, Choe lived in Spanaway and ran a martial arts school in Federal Way. A seventh-degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, Choe also was well respected as a master and innovator of Hap Ki Do, a lesser-known martial art about which he's written a book.
A Korean immigrant who helped other Koreans secure home and business loans, Lee showed up at Choe's dojo and confronted him in a parking lot there, prosecutors say. Witnesses told police the two began arguing, but a fight broke out after Choe rushed Lee with a drawn samurai sword.
The fight ended after Lee sustained a 2½-foot-long gash to his inner right thigh, severing his femoral artery. He died early the next morning at Harborview Medical Center.
Detectives followed a trail of blood into Choe's school. Inside, they found a bloody samurai sword and blood-spattered clothing that matched witness' descriptions of the sword fighter.
They later arrested Choe at his Spanaway home.
Donohoe said it's still unclear what the two men where arguing about. Prosecutors originally charged Choe with second-degree murder, but that charge was reduced for lack of evidence, he said.
``We felt there were some proof problems to get murder-two,'' he said.
A little more checking and yep, this guy is in jail for 9.5 years - yet this sleazy organization still sells his course, and says that Choe' "personal agenda" no longer allows him to assist with online courses - right because he's locked up!
Now, why do I call this organization sleazy? Becasue there is no mention anywhere that this money from this program is going to help the family of Mr. Lee - the man who was killed. Love to here from anyone connected with these lowlifes. Get the word out, and maybe this organization can go bye-bye.
Comments?
ajs1976 there = doc clean here
Well, I wasted $20. I'm glad I found out before I spent any more money.
Even though the website mentions Choe's books, an email I got after signing up said they were using Master Jung's videos for the courses.
-----
I'm not doing very good in my search for Hapkido training. First there is the information about WHA. Then last night I drove buy a dojang that teaches TKD and Hapkido, only to see for rent signs in the windows.
Well, I wasted $20. I'm glad I found out before I spent any more money.
Even though the website mentions Choe's books, an email I got after signing up said they were using Master Jung's videos for the courses.
-----
I'm not doing very good in my search for Hapkido training. First there is the information about WHA. Then last night I drove buy a dojang that teaches TKD and Hapkido, only to see for rent signs in the windows.
Pittsburgh, PA.
I just started TKD a few months ago, and Hapkido is included as part of the curriculum. It seems that just techniqes are covered. I'm looking for something that will let me take at a little further. I plan on continuing with TKD for a while.
Through google, I have found the following places:
www.kiski-karate.com/ - about an hour from my house. They offer training in Combat Hapkido. I would prefer a more traditional hapkido.
Allied TKD and Hapkido - this is close to my house, but it is also the place with the for rent signs in the windows.
www.judo-hapkido.com - this looks like the most promising, but it is also about an hour away and I would have to drive through the city during rush hour to get to class, so add another half hour.
I just started TKD a few months ago, and Hapkido is included as part of the curriculum. It seems that just techniqes are covered. I'm looking for something that will let me take at a little further. I plan on continuing with TKD for a while.
Through google, I have found the following places:
www.kiski-karate.com/ - about an hour from my house. They offer training in Combat Hapkido. I would prefer a more traditional hapkido.
Allied TKD and Hapkido - this is close to my house, but it is also the place with the for rent signs in the windows.
www.judo-hapkido.com - this looks like the most promising, but it is also about an hour away and I would have to drive through the city during rush hour to get to class, so add another half hour.
I'm teaching white belts right now....first basic kicking, punching techniques are learned, alot of strength, cardiovascular training, form, two self defense techniques. Actually I did do sparring combinations with my class to get them started although white belts are not tested in sparring. Way too early... be patient, part of the process. First learn techniques, get strong...TKD with Hapkido is a great combination. Hang in there... TW
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Tigerwoman:
While there is a part of me that understands how you can make the sort of statement in your post that I read, please know that not All of we Hapkido practitioners view the marriage of TKD with a few HKD techniques as being anywhere near optimal. I have no fault with your practice of a martial sport and heartily encourage those who are interested in a fine activity with sound principle and challenging demands to avail themselves of your teaching. Beyond that I would take this opprtunity to advise you that for my part the Hapkido arts are a martial art and a martial tradition. To train in Hapkido arts is to demand of yourself the acceptance of significant performance and commitment. Whatever else you may think the Hapkido arts to be I can testify that to pursue these arts is to require of your students commitment and dilligence not asked in other Korean MA activities. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
While there is a part of me that understands how you can make the sort of statement in your post that I read, please know that not All of we Hapkido practitioners view the marriage of TKD with a few HKD techniques as being anywhere near optimal. I have no fault with your practice of a martial sport and heartily encourage those who are interested in a fine activity with sound principle and challenging demands to avail themselves of your teaching. Beyond that I would take this opprtunity to advise you that for my part the Hapkido arts are a martial art and a martial tradition. To train in Hapkido arts is to demand of yourself the acceptance of significant performance and commitment. Whatever else you may think the Hapkido arts to be I can testify that to pursue these arts is to require of your students commitment and dilligence not asked in other Korean MA activities. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I understand your position. I would expect no less from a TKD practioner.
But we do elements of Hapkido to supplement as well as you, I notice, do elements of TKD high kicking. I would throw myself into one art, until I could no longer grow (as in bad knees) than perhaps another art would complement it and I could continue to grow. I am mixed as to one art being the end all, but I do respect you and Hapkido as an art that can take a lifetime to understand fully. TW
But we do elements of Hapkido to supplement as well as you, I notice, do elements of TKD high kicking. I would throw myself into one art, until I could no longer grow (as in bad knees) than perhaps another art would complement it and I could continue to grow. I am mixed as to one art being the end all, but I do respect you and Hapkido as an art that can take a lifetime to understand fully. TW
hi tigerwoman,TigerWoman said:
i pretty much agree with you... for people who are interested in the sporting / competition / sparring side of the arts, tkd is great. and hapkido can compliment tkd nicely in the area of self defense, if you're interested in that aspect of the arts.
OP
OP
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
As long as the student is clearly told, and understands that the Hapkido they may be taught in a TaeKwonDo class is just an add on, and not the whole art, that seems fine. Where I object is the multitude of TaeKwonDo dojangs that teach a few Hapkido techniques and then advertise TaeKwonDo and Hapkido to their students. I get lots of perspective students that say they have done Hapkido and TaeKwonDo together - which means they know 10 bad Hapkido techniques from a WTF Dojang.
As long as the two arts are described as "add-ons" when taught like this, I think for them it is fine.
For what it is worth, I think in 25 years I have rarely seen anyone kick in a Hapkido Dojang like the snappy, competition stlye kicks found in most TaeKwonDo Dojang.
As long as the student is clearly told, and understands that the Hapkido they may be taught in a TaeKwonDo class is just an add on, and not the whole art, that seems fine. Where I object is the multitude of TaeKwonDo dojangs that teach a few Hapkido techniques and then advertise TaeKwonDo and Hapkido to their students. I get lots of perspective students that say they have done Hapkido and TaeKwonDo together - which means they know 10 bad Hapkido techniques from a WTF Dojang.
As long as the two arts are described as "add-ons" when taught like this, I think for them it is fine.
For what it is worth, I think in 25 years I have rarely seen anyone kick in a Hapkido Dojang like the snappy, competition stlye kicks found in most TaeKwonDo Dojang.
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Kevin:
Doesn't your thinking fly in the face of the "something-fer-nothing" approach that is so popular? After all its not like people really WANT to learn two arts, or that they are, in fact, learning two arts. Rather what I think is being marketed here are the bragging rights to saying "I know two Korean martial arts" without having to account for just how deeply one knows those arts, yes? As always its the image that is being sold and not the opportunity to train hard. For myself I have had TKD students who have come to my classes and relate that they already know Hapkido and want to start above the basics. Without exception they have little or no falling skills, poor insight into how to execute a technique, and little in either depth or breadth of technique. Somehow I think that what is being discussed here is not really "learning" Hapkido but the "idea" that one is learning Hapkido. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Doesn't your thinking fly in the face of the "something-fer-nothing" approach that is so popular? After all its not like people really WANT to learn two arts, or that they are, in fact, learning two arts. Rather what I think is being marketed here are the bragging rights to saying "I know two Korean martial arts" without having to account for just how deeply one knows those arts, yes? As always its the image that is being sold and not the opportunity to train hard. For myself I have had TKD students who have come to my classes and relate that they already know Hapkido and want to start above the basics. Without exception they have little or no falling skills, poor insight into how to execute a technique, and little in either depth or breadth of technique. Somehow I think that what is being discussed here is not really "learning" Hapkido but the "idea" that one is learning Hapkido. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
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