Fixing the training model

[Gerry Seymour]

The same techniques may be rubbish. Depends on the training model which is precisely the point of discussion in this thread.

I'd say it differently, but it's a good point.

 

[Hanzou]

I think her point is about dismissing everything else someone does because of no-touch. I've learned a few interesting tweaks from folks whose overall technique was pretty much crap. I found what I could to learn from. I even know one group that teaches a no-touch disruption (it's a mind trick, playing on the desire to avoid running into things) that actually works in the dojo (I experienced it without knowing what was coming). I wouldn't trust it in the street, though it was intellectually interesting to muck with. But that didn't affect - positively or negatively - the reliability of their other techniques. It was a hint to me to be a bit more skeptical than usual, so it's not as if I ignored the issue.

I hold the same view when I talk to a young-Earther about business. I have some extra skepticism because they seem to have a problem with following evidence, but I don't automatically discard everything they think they've learned.

A creationist may be a great businessman, but he'd be an idiotic scientist. In the realm of martial arts, a no touch exponent teaching martial arts is the equivalent of a flat earther teaching astrophysics.

 

[now disabled]

A creationist may be a great businessman, but he'd be an idiotic scientist. In the realm of martial arts, a no touch exponent teaching martial arts is the equivalent of a flat earther teaching astrophysics.

That is total bollocks lol....the no touchers as you put it umm that is not what they teach in everything sondon't be going there ....even that vid you posted umm it was not all no touch

and I will tell you again that Shihan has fallen from grace due to his Ki ideas (that be no touch to you btw) and that is not the same vid you posted the last time as that vid was not taken at the Aikikai hombu (the one you just posted is and it was taken in the large hall just for your info ...but I'm sure like all else that will be biased or wrong to lol) Oh and yes Watanbe is sill an Aikikai Shihan but if you look at the schedules he ain't teaching there but again I'm sure you will say that wrong to

 

[Hanzou]

That is total bollocks lol....the no touchers as you put it umm that is not what they teach in everything sondon't be going there ....even that vid you posted umm it was not all no touch

Yet its in there, which means that he views the no-touch stuff as viable as standard technique.

and I will tell you again that Shihan has fallen from grace due to his Ki ideas (that be no touch to you btw) and that is not the same vid you posted the last time as that vid was not taken at the Aikikai hombu (the one you just posted is and it was taken in the large hall just for your info ...but I'm sure like all else that will be biased or wrong to lol) Oh and yes Watanbe is sill an Aikikai Shihan but if you look at the schedules he ain't teaching there but again I'm sure you will say that wrong to

Please provide a source specifying where he fell from grace. From all accounts he was still doing demonstrations up until recently. He probably isn't teaching now because he's pushing 90.

Also here's a poll from a Aikido forum about who believes in no-touch throws:

AikiWeb Aikido Information: Polls: Current Poll Results

The results (sadly) aren't surprising.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A creationist may be a great businessman, but he'd be an idiotic scientist. In the realm of martial arts, a no touch exponent teaching martial arts is the equivalent of a flat earther teaching astrophysics.

Could be. Or they might have one area where they play with stuff that's less practical, like that group I was talking about. It really depends how they approach it.

 

[now disabled]

Yet its in there, which means that he views the no-touch stuff as viable as standard technique.



Please provide a source specifying where he fell from grace. From all accounts he was still doing demonstrations up until recently. He probably isn't teaching now because he's pushing 90.

Google him and I never said he was not teaching I SAID HE WAS NOT TEACHING AT THE AIKIKAI HOMBU. That is an old vid btw and not the same one you posted before (yes he is listed as a Aikikai Shihan and why would he not be as his Aikido used to be very strong and hard , do you cherry pick everything just to suit what you say or think ? and all you did when I asked about wrist locks etc was post vids ....you didn't answer the question ....but that not unusual is it !!!!!

Look Bro you basically were saying that anyone one that teaches the KI stuff should not teach MA or are you gonna twist outta that too

 

[Hanzou]

Google him and I never said he was not teaching I SAID HE WAS NOT TEACHING AT THE AIKIKAI HOMBU. That is an old vid btw and not the same one you posted before (yes he is listed as a Aikikai Shihan and why would he not be as his Aikido used to be very strong and hard ,

Here's a demo from him in 1987:

Where's the "strong and hard" Aikido?

do you cherry pick everything just to suit what you say or think ? and all you did when I asked about wrist locks etc was post vids ....you didn't answer the question ....but that not unusual is it !!!!!

Look Bro you basically were saying that anyone one that teaches the KI stuff should not teach MA or are you gonna twist outta that too

You asked if Bjj had wrist locks. I linked you to a vid showing wrist locks in Bjj. What's the problem?

And yes, IMO if you're teaching no-touch silliness you shouldn't be teaching MA. Again, what's the problem? Clearly you have no problem learning nonsense, but that doesn't mean that other people do.

 

[now disabled]

Here's a demo from him in 1987:

Where's the "strong and hard" Aikido?



You asked if Bjj had wrist locks. I linked you to a vid showing wrist locks in Bjj. What's the problem?

And yes, IMO if you're teaching no-touch silliness you shouldn't be teaching MA. Again, what's the problem? Clearly you have no problem learning nonsense, but that doesn't mean that other people do.

First where in that vid was there pure ki Aikido ? second it was strong and clean

Third if you are going to say that I am a KI Aikido follower you are seriously way of the mark and I mean way off the mark


Oh boy when I next get stateside you and I are going to have some mat time lol and I will promise you that lol


No that is not what I asked at all but like all else it pointless asking you anything as you never answer.

 

[Hanzou]

First where in that vid was there pure ki Aikido ? second it was strong and clean

Third if you are going to say that I am a KI Aikido follower you are seriously way of the mark and I mean way off the mark

There was nothing strong about any of that. I will agree that it was "clean", but so is performance dance.

I never said that YOU were an Ki Aikido follower, I'm saying that clearly you believe that nonsense is possible.

Oh boy when I next get stateside you and I are going to have some mat time lol and I will promise you that lol


No that is not what I asked at all but like all else it pointless asking you anything as you never answer.

Uh huh (on both counts).

 

[now disabled]

There was nothing strong about any of that. I will agree that it was "clean", but so is performance dance.

I never said that YOU were an Ki Aikido follower, I'm saying that clearly you believe that nonsense is possible.




Uh huh (on both counts).

Where did I say it was possible ? where did I say it was impossible? what I said was you are lacking in understanding as to why how etc .....

and what do you term as being strong ? .......Btw demos are not the best advert for much but hey again you will jump on that ,,,,,,,,,,and you stated that no person that teaches KI side should teach MA ......now you are saying a vid you posted was clean etc and it had no pure KI takedowns or knock downs so are you not contradicting yourself?

Are you sure your not a secret politician as boy do you duck weave and spout lines like one lol

 

[Hanzou]

Where did I say it was possible ? where did I say it was impossible? what I said was you are lacking in understanding as to why how etc .....

So which is it? Impossible or possible?

and what do you term as being strong ? .......Btw demos are not the best advert for much but hey again you will jump on that ,,,,,,,,,,and you stated that no person that teaches KI side should teach MA ......now you are saying a vid you posted was clean etc and it had no pure KI takedowns or knock downs so are you not contradicting yourself?

A Judo throw is strong because its actually real. Flipping someone while barely touching them isn't.

 

[now disabled]

So which is it? Impossible or possible?



A Judo throw is strong because its actually real. Flipping someone while barely touching them isn't.

It is whatever the person or people that do it think ....


And where did Judo come into this? or are you again leading to another crock of crap like you said about Kano Jigoro had a vested interest in Ueshiba Morihei carrying on and teaching?

 

[Hanzou]

It is whatever the person or people that do it think ....

Thanks for proving my point.

And where did Judo come into this? or are you again leading to another crock of crap like you said about Kano Jigoro had a vested interest in Ueshiba Morihei carrying on and teaching?

I could have sworn you asked me what I would consider strong. Did you forget already?

 

[now disabled]

Thanks for proving my point.



I could have sworn you asked me what I would consider strong. Did you forget already?

I have not proved your point at all ...........


And I will rephrase and say as we were taking about Watanabe Shihan so I think it would have been clear that it was Aikido ...but is that yourway of saying you have no real clue what hard or soft ...actually do you honestly have a clue regarding Aikido .... is ? or is it just the case you like having a go at Ueshiba Morihei ?

 

[Tez3]

The 'no touch' KO I saw was being demo'd by a BJJ guy. Odd isn't it. runs a gym in the Midlands.

 

[Hanzou]

I have not proved your point at all ...........

You dont even realize it.....

How sad.

And I will rephrase and say as we were taking about Watanabe Shihan so I think it would have been clear that it was Aikido ...but is that yourway of saying you have no real clue what hard or soft ...actually do you honestly have a clue regarding Aikido .... is ? or is it just the case you like having a go at Ueshiba Morihei ?

 

[pdg]

The 'no touch' KO I saw was being demo'd by a BJJ guy. Odd isn't it. runs a gym in the Midlands.

Sorry Tez, but that can't be right, because:

The very fact that they're doing no-touch KO BS (and they're willing to show it off as if its something to be proud of) invalidates everything else that they're doing.

It must be a PBJJ (pseudo bjj) gym or something, because all his "bjj" is invalidated.

 

[Hanzou]

The 'no touch' KO I saw was being demo'd by a BJJ guy. Odd isn't it. runs a gym in the Midlands.

If what you're saying is true (somehow I doubt it), then everything I said applies to him as well.

 

[now disabled]

Hey hanzou you be ok now as the other Aikido hater is in tha house lol

 

[Tez3]

If what you're saying is true (somehow I doubt it), then everything I said applies to him as well.

Are you calling me a liar?

It's actually true which is why I brought the subject up it in the first place, I just thought I'd let you rant on before I told you. So his BJJ is also useless and rubbish...… interesting as it was very good.

Ah well, he had his foible of the 'no touch' KO and you have yours of hating karate. C'est la vie.