At What Point To Start Training Other Arts?

[Gerry Seymour]

It depends on what it is you are trying to mix, and what you are trying to accomplish by doing so. "Fixing" one system by mixing in fundamental principles from another system is not likely to work well. That is the impression I got from the OP, in what he is thinking of.

Agreed. Fixing a system with incomplete understanding of a second one is unlikely to be useful. If he's just thinking of combining (in himself) two disparate arts to get the strengths of both, that's a different matter.

 

[Psilent Knight]

there is often much that can be incorporated within the context of another system quite readily. It doesn't even require real depth of understanding of the donor art, just a bit of understanding of a principle or two that work well with (and can be adapted to) the primary system.

Although I realize that I am no expert in the Martial Arts, based on the knowledge that I do have I must say that I find myself in agreement with this explanation. In fact, I'm sure this practice has much to do with the birthing of new styles in the Martial Arts.

Osu!

 

[Psilent Knight]

"Fixing" one system by mixing in fundamental principles from another system is not likely to work well. That is the impression I got from the OP, in what he is thinking of.

But I said no such thing nor have I alluded to any such thing. If everyone involved in our discussion were to go back and re-read all of my posts I specifically said that I am curious about the named arts' principles of movement, footwork, generating power and using an opponent's own momentum and force against himself. There are many, many arts that specialize in these things and I would like to explore certain ones to see if it's possible to learn their respective principles and determine whether or not I can incorporate them into my own personal Martial Arts practice. At no point have I ever stated that I think Kyokushin has wholes that need to be patched up and cross training is the way to "fix" it.

For the record I should probably state here and now for all to read that I personally do not believe in a superior martial art or inferior martial art. I do, however, believe in a superior fighter and an inferior fighter and I think part of what makes a particular fighter superior compared to another is his willingness to examine his own individual fighting prowess, what his personal fighting style is like, what he wishes to accomplish when engaged in combat, to figure out what his weak points are and how to correct those weak points even if it means cross training in other arts to benefit what they have to offer him as a fighter.

Such a person who does this is not attempting to fix his art, he's attempting to fix his own individual fighting abilities. I think this is something everyone should do who is concerned about becoming the best fighter or martial artist that he can be.

Take Care Everyone,
Osu!

 

[Psilent Knight]

Agreed. Fixing a system with incomplete understanding of a second one is unlikely to be useful.

Agreed completely.

If he's just thinking of combining (in himself) two disparate arts to get the strengths of both, that's a different matter.

This. Thank You for your input.

Take Care,
Osu!

 

[Psilent Knight]

I've trained a few Styles of MA, most CMA, and one of those was Bagauzhang and admittedly it may just be me, but of all the styles I tried or trained Bagua is an animal all its own. I truly enjoyed the style, but for me to do it justice I would have had to stop Taiji and Xingyi and at my age I was not sure it was worth it. However with that said, I still dabble in Bagua.

But as flying crane said, finding a teacher that truly knows the style is not all that easy. There are a lot the teach bagua, but not all know bagua

I know exactly what you mean. But to be honest I am not looking to master any of these styles except either Kyokushin or (if I am fortunate enough to be able to train it) Ashihara Karate. The other arts are mainly just a quest for knowledge, intellectual pursuit, the pure enjoyment of learning and contributing to keeping my mind and body fit and healthy. I'm too old to be getting into any "street fights" and competing is completely out of the question. I just want to enjoy learning while picking up something useful in the process. Self defense and fighting are at the very bottom of my list of reasons for training.

Take Care,
Osu!

 

[Headhunter]

Everyone seems to talk like there's a set way to do it. Like you should train for this long or do this or that but honestly it doesn't matter do whatever you want and if you enjoy it that's the main thing. Martial arts is a hobby you're not Jason Bourne or James Bond or agent 47 who has to be the best of the best to survive you're doing this because you want to do it. You want to train karate and taekwondo do it, you want to train boxing and Muay Thai do it. It's your choice and if you enjoy it then that's all that matters

 

[Flying Crane]

But I said no such thing nor have I alluded to any such thing. If everyone involved in our discussion were to go back and re-read all of my posts I specifically said that I am curious about the named arts' principles of movement, footwork, generating power and using an opponent's own momentum and force against himself. There are many, many arts that specialize in these things and I would like to explore certain ones to see if it's possible to learn their respective principles and determine whether or not I can incorporate them into my own personal Martial Arts practice. At no point have I ever stated that I think Kyokushin has wholes that need to be patched up and cross training is the way to "fix" it.

For the record I should probably state here and now for all to read that I personally do not believe in a superior martial art or inferior martial art. I do, however, believe in a superior fighter and an inferior fighter and I think part of what makes a particular fighter superior compared to another is his willingness to examine his own individual fighting prowess, what his personal fighting style is like, what he wishes to accomplish when engaged in combat, to figure out what his weak points are and how to correct those weak points even if it means cross training in other arts to benefit what they have to offer him as a fighter.

Such a person who does this is not attempting to fix his art, he's attempting to fix his own individual fighting abilities. I think this is something everyone should do who is concerned about becoming the best fighter or martial artist that he can be.

Take Care Everyone,
Osu!

Well, I think you did say it, and say it again here.

If that isn't what you meant, well ok.

If my advice isn't what you wanted to hear, well ok. But I stand by it.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Everyone seems to talk like there's a set way to do it. Like you should train for this long or do this or that but honestly it doesn't matter do whatever you want and if you enjoy it that's the main thing. Martial arts is a hobby you're not Jason Bourne or James Bond or agent 47 who has to be the best of the best to survive you're doing this because you want to do it. You want to train karate and taekwondo do it, you want to train boxing and Muay Thai do it. It's your choice and if you enjoy it then that's all that matters

Quite a few people have said the same thing and the way you express it here makes it all the more easier to agree with. Good advice Headhunter, especially for a person who is not trying to be a master of all the arts nor Jack of all Trades.

Thank You for your input.

Take Care and Have a Great Day,
Osu!

 

[Psilent Knight]

Just train Kyokushin Karate until you master it then go to the other Martial arts that you want my instructor was 7 or 8 degree in Kenpo before he took FMA he also took juijutsu

Thanks for your advice KenpoMaster805. I do believe that I can begin training other arts even before I master Kyokushin Karate as others have expressed (which I agree with it). But I also completely agree with the advice that I need to have a very solid grounding in Kyokushin before branching out to explore other arts.

Take Care and Have a Great Day,
Osu!

 

[Buka]

Psilent Knight, you should have one goal, and one goal only going forward in your pursuit of another style.

Have a ball, enjoy the heck out of it. Everything else usually falls into place.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Psilent Knight, you should have one goal, and one goal only going forward in your pursuit of another style.

Have a ball, enjoy the heck out of it. Everything else usually falls into place.

Right on Buka! Yours is probably my favorite post in this discussion.

If there was a way I could give your post 100 thumbs up I would do so in a heartbeat.

Take Care and Have A Great Weekend,
Osu!

 

[Flying Crane]

Psilent Knight, you should have one goal, and one goal only going forward in your pursuit of another style.

Have a ball, enjoy the heck out of it. Everything else usually falls into place.

This is absolutely true. Anyone can train whatever they want, for whatever reasons they have, whether those reasons are good or bad or no reason at all. No argument there. And I too hope they get enjoyment or fulfillment from it.

There are some issues that could come into the picture that might disrupt or make the experience less smooth or beneficial than one might be hoping for. Some of us are simply trying to point that out as honest advice, because it seems that many people simply are not aware of that possibility.

So take the advice, or leave it, it's up to the individual to make his own decisions about it. But understand that the advice was given in good faith, as the OP seemed to be asking for advice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Psilent Knight, you should have one goal, and one goal only going forward in your pursuit of another style.

Have a ball, enjoy the heck out of it. Everything else usually falls into place.

That, of course, should also be the goal for your primary at @Psilent Knight.

 

[Psilent Knight]

That, of course, should also be the goal for your primary art @Psilent Knight.

Oh Yes, it most certainly is. Thank You Very Much.

Have A Great Weekend Sir,
Osu!

 

[Psilent Knight]

Taijiquan, to really understand it and use it properly, can be hard for many who come from hard styles like Karate and that too takes time.

if you come from a harder style, takes a long time and I am speaking as a long time student and teacher of taijiquan. I have trained with many people coming from harder styles and very few last long. The one that did was there for years and did well, if you are looking long term your biggest problems will be relaxing while doing the form.

@Xue Sheng after pondering on this for the past few days I wanted to ask you for your opinion on the idea of starting to train in Taiji now while I am still learning Karate. One question in particular I would like to ask you (in relation to your posts quoted above) is if you think I would have a better time adjusting to Taiji if I practiced a style of Karate that isn't "as hard" as Kyokushin such as Wado ryu? To be even more specific, my family and I are firming up plans to leave Pittsburgh and head down south. If all goes to plan I hope to be in a situation in which I can actually train in Ashihara Karate. The emphasis in Ashihara Karate (as taught and blueprinted by Master Hideyuki Ashihara) is much more on the soft than it is on the hard.

What are your thoughts on all of this?

Thank You in Advance.

Take Care and Have A Good Day,
Osu!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@Xue Sheng after pondering on this for the past few days I wanted to ask you for your opinion on the idea of starting to train in Taiji now while I am still learning Karate. One question in particular I would like to ask you (in relation to your posts quoted above) is if you think I would have a better time adjusting to Taiji if I practiced a style of Karate that isn't "as hard" as Kyokushin such as Wado ryu? To be even more specific, my family and I are firming up plans to leave Pittsburgh and head down south. If all goes to plan I hope to be in a situation in which I can actually train in Ashihara Karate. The emphasis in Ashihara Karate (as taught and blueprinted by Master Hideyuki Ashihara) is much more on the soft than it is on the hard.

What are your thoughts on all of this?

Thank You in Advance.

Take Care and Have A Good Day,
Osu!

I know little of Taiji, but I know something of soft. Training in a hard style and a soft style at the same time has advantages (more relaxation in the hard style, for one), but can be difficult because of the competing principles. If you have a liking for the Ashihara style, I would think it would be easier to co-train it with Taiji, rather than a harder style with Taiji. There will still be conflicts, but if Ashihara focuses more on flow and relaxation, it will have fewer conflicts with soft styles.

 

[Xue Sheng]

@Xue Sheng after pondering on this for the past few days I wanted to ask you for your opinion on the idea of starting to train in Taiji now while I am still learning Karate. One question in particular I would like to ask you (in relation to your posts quoted above) is if you think I would have a better time adjusting to Taiji if I practiced a style of Karate that isn't "as hard" as Kyokushin such as Wado ryu? To be even more specific, my family and I are firming up plans to leave Pittsburgh and head down south. If all goes to plan I hope to be in a situation in which I can actually train in Ashihara Karate. The emphasis in Ashihara Karate (as taught and blueprinted by Master Hideyuki Ashihara) is much more on the soft than it is on the hard.

What are your thoughts on all of this?

Thank You in Advance.

Take Care and Have A Good Day,
Osu!

I really cannot answer the question, I do not know the differences in Karate styles. I do know the squared stance and use of power can get in the way

 

[Psilent Knight]

If you have a liking for the Ashihara style, I would think it would be easier to co-train it with Taiji, rather than a harder style with Taiji. There will still be conflicts, but if Ashihara focuses more on flow and relaxation, it will have fewer conflicts with soft styles.

This is my thinking (and my hopes) as well. Thanks for your input.

I really cannot answer the question, I do not know the differences in Karate styles. I do know the squared stance and use of power can get in the way

Thanks for your valuable feedback. It's more helpful than you may realize.

Take Care All,
Osu!