Fixing the training model

Steve said:
Okay. Hold on. There are a couple of problems with your position.

First, you really seem to be suggesting that @Hanzou is wrong because he disagrees with you.
Second, yes, you are being unreasonable (not sure about 'no understanding').
Third, you are making this very personal, which isn't a great way to get your point across. Not only are you personally attacking a poster, you are also taking this very personally, which isn't a good idea.

Finally, the standard for who is allowed to hold an opinion around here is hard to nail down. I think the details are fluid, but it boils down to agreement. If you agree with the poster, his/her opinion is valid. Otherwise, it is not. I can think of examples where a poster's opinion is dismissed because he never trained in that particular art, and times when it's been just fine. Now, even training in the art isn't enough. You must have "made it work" (whatever that means) in order to be credible. I don't buy it.
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I did write a longer reply, but it's just not worth it.
 
now disabled said:
he is somewhat of a person that picks things he wants and ignores other things and even when presented with things that are recorded and verifiable it still not good enough as it does not fit what he wants
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When did that ever happen??
 
Hanzou said:
LoL! Okie dokie.
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Lets see your fighting style, that you have learned and are so quick to push on others, as if it so superior than all the rest then by dint of said so you should be to so let us see ...
 
now disabled said:
Bro it is hard not to get pissed off with Hanzou as well he is somewhat of a person that picks things he wants and ignores other things and even when presented with things that are recorded and verifiable it still not good enough as it does not fit what he wants. Sorry but I will side with Pdg on his view
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I'm with you two. I know you won't realise this unless you look back on much earlier posts but this is standard Hanzou fare, we've had the same arguments for a few years now. The basic argument is that having trained karate he deems it pointless and kata useless, the proof of this is his karate training which as I have already quoted was at a McDojo ( not my words, his). BJJ is always the best, nothing else works. To be fair I've seen many martial artists of all ilks state their style is the best, it's nothing new. The 'video' proof is always demanded, like the joke, if it's not on video it didn't happen. The flaw of course is that the video is only proof of the individual's ability not proof of the style. I can post up videos of BJJ being practised in such a way you'd think it truly appalling.
I could post that CMA styles don't work because they don't work for me, I find them hard on my knees and after a lifetime of karate I find it very difficult to transition to their way of doing things, however I will not say they don't work because I know several very good practitioners who make it work a dream.

What is never accepted is that a style may suit and work very well for many people, it may well not work for you, that's fine, practice your style and not worry about other people's. 'Ah then' says Hanzou and his kind, 'We have to point out the inadequacies of other's styles otherwise you are being defrauded.... because we know best'. And that's the problem, if someone's work like Iain Abernethy's actually is effective ( and no he doesn't do the 'secret' technique stuff but has interesting articles which show how he thinks about things in depth The problems with "street fighting" | Iain Abernethy ) for those who study with him and others like him, why does it offend those who don't do kata? You don't like it, don't do it. It makes no difference to you whether others do it and find it useful in it's many incarnations.

Still, arguing that ones' style is best is akin to arguing that one's religion is best or that having no faith is best ( one reason for not having religious arguments as well as political ones on here), we've seen where they lead. I like BJJ, I enjoy it, is it the best ever , no, what is? I have no idea but I do know that blowing other people's candles out doesn't make yours shine brighter. BJJ doesn't shine brighter because you think other styles are all pants.
 
gpseymour said:
I'm not sure I'd even consider that a wizzer. My understanding of a wizzer (pretty much third-hand, and relating it back to what I know that's similar) is that it's a takedown from the shoulder/upper arm. He's using the wizzer (sort of) to restrain the shoulder forward, but the takedown is a leg sweep, with little input from the shoulder.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is an arm bar either. But the movement is hard and requires good footwork and balance.

So the trade off is are you training for good footwork or bad technique.
 
Tez3 said:
I'm with you two. I know you won't realise this unless you look back on much earlier posts but this is standard Hanzou fare, we've had the same arguments for a few years now. The basic argument is that having trained karate he deems it pointless and kata useless, the proof of this is his karate training which as I have already quoted was at a McDojo ( not my words, his). BJJ is always the best, nothing else works. To be fair I've seen many martial artists of all ilks state their style is the best, it's nothing new. The 'video' proof is always demanded, like the joke, if it's not on video it didn't happen. The flaw of course is that the video is only proof of the individual's ability not proof of the style. I can post up videos of BJJ being practised in such a way you'd think it truly appalling.
I could post that CMA styles don't work because they don't work for me, I find them hard on my knees and after a lifetime of karate I find it very difficult to transition to their way of doing things, however I will not say they don't work because I know several very good practitioners who make it work a dream.

What is never accepted is that a style may suit and work very well for many people, it may well not work for you, that's fine, practice your style and not worry about other people's. 'Ah then' says Hanzou and his kind, 'We have to point out the inadequacies of other's styles otherwise you are being defrauded.... because we know best'. And that's the problem, if someone's work like Iain Abernethy's actually is effective ( and no he doesn't do the 'secret' technique stuff but has interesting articles which show how he thinks about things in depth The problems with "street fighting" | Iain Abernethy ) for those who study with him and others like him, why does it offend those who don't do kata? You don't like it, don't do it. It makes no difference to you whether others do it and find it useful in it's many incarnations.

Still, arguing that ones' style is best is akin to arguing that one's religion is best or that having no faith is best ( one reason for not having religious arguments as well as political ones on here), we've seen where they lead. I like BJJ, I enjoy it, is it the best ever , no, what is? I have no idea but I do know that blowing other people's candles out doesn't make yours shine brighter. BJJ doesn't shine brighter because you think other styles are all pants.
Click to expand...

Yeah but that is because when it comes to self defense results don't matter.

Which is also why we don't recommend reiki when someone is having a heart attack. Even though I could make all the same arguments to why we should.

I could even suggest an EMT who isn't trained in reiki shouldn't be discouraging it. But then I would be silly.
 
gpseymour said:
Can't we be doing both?
Click to expand...

Not really. Because when you are training structure you are not looking for efficiency. You are looking to make it harder than it needs to be.

I would train with a weight vest. But I wouldn't run a race with one
 
now disabled said:
Lets see your fighting style, that you have learned and are so quick to push on others, as if it so superior than all the rest then by dint of said so you should be to so let us see ...
Click to expand...

What does my personal fighting style have to do with BJJ stylists doing exceptionally well in multiple major MMA promotions?
 
So this is from a few pages back, but decided to read the thread fully. A couple of the posters were suggesting that if they met with Hanzou they would have no issues beating him in a fight. I don't understand that point of view, because
A: unless we face each other in person, we have no way of knowing if that's true or not. I can assume all day long that steve can kick my ***, and also assume that I could beat gerry easily, but until I fight them or train with them in some capacity, I have nothing to back up either of those beliefs (not saying either are my assumptions, just chose two random people).
B: Let's say I'm arguing with Steve, and I'm convinced that Kata are helpful, and he's convinced they're not. Now I meet up with him, fight him, and win. Does that mean I can now say "I'm better than you, so obviously I was right? I beat you because of kata?" If he wins, does that mean he can say "I'm better than you, so obviously I was right? You lost because you spent too much time doing kata?"
C: To continue with me and Steve...let's say we fight multiple times. Now let's say *Gasp* he wins sometimes, and I win sometimes!!! What does that mean? Does kata change between meaningful and meaningless?? Should I have done more kata in my fight prep when I lost? Did I not understand my kata well enough? Did me winning the next time mean I magically understood it in that 3 months time?
A post on a forum isn't an indicator of fighting ability, fighting ability can change, and fighting ability doesn't mean everything you say is wrong/right.
 
kempodisciple said:
So this is from a few pages back, but decided to read the thread fully. A couple of the posters were suggesting that if they met with Hanzou they would have no issues beating him in a fight. I don't understand that point of view, because
A: unless we face each other in person, we have no way of knowing if that's true or not. I can assume all day long that steve can kick my ***, and also assume that I could beat gerry easily, but until I fight them or train with them in some capacity, I have nothing to back up either of those beliefs (not saying either are my assumptions, just chose two random people).
B: Let's say I'm arguing with Steve, and I'm convinced that Kata are helpful, and he's convinced they're not. Now I meet up with him, fight him, and win. Does that mean I can now say "I'm better than you, so obviously I was right? I beat you because of kata?" If he wins, does that mean he can say "I'm better than you, so obviously I was right? You lost because you spent too much time doing kata?"
C: To continue with me and Steve...let's say we fight multiple times. Now let's say *Gasp* he wins sometimes, and I win sometimes!!! What does that mean? Does kata change between meaningful and meaningless?? Should I have done more kata in my fight prep when I lost? Did I not understand my kata well enough? Did me winning the next time mean I magically understood it in that 3 months time?
A post on a forum isn't an indicator of fighting ability, fighting ability can change, and fighting ability doesn't mean everything you say is wrong/right.
Click to expand...
hey man . Great post except why are you calling me out? ;)
 
Tez3 said:
I'm with you two. I know you won't realise this unless you look back on much earlier posts but this is standard Hanzou fare, we've had the same arguments for a few years now. The basic argument is that having trained karate he deems it pointless and kata useless, the proof of this is his karate training which as I have already quoted was at a McDojo ( not my words, his). BJJ is always the best, nothing else works. To be fair I've seen many martial artists of all ilks state their style is the best, it's nothing new. The 'video' proof is always demanded, like the joke, if it's not on video it didn't happen. The flaw of course is that the video is only proof of the individual's ability not proof of the style. I can post up videos of BJJ being practised in such a way you'd think it truly appalling.
I could post that CMA styles don't work because they don't work for me, I find them hard on my knees and after a lifetime of karate I find it very difficult to transition to their way of doing things, however I will not say they don't work because I know several very good practitioners who make it work a dream.

What is never accepted is that a style may suit and work very well for many people, it may well not work for you, that's fine, practice your style and not worry about other people's. 'Ah then' says Hanzou and his kind, 'We have to point out the inadequacies of other's styles otherwise you are being defrauded.... because we know best'. And that's the problem, if someone's work like Iain Abernethy's actually is effective ( and no he doesn't do the 'secret' technique stuff but has interesting articles which show how he thinks about things in depth The problems with "street fighting" | Iain Abernethy ) for those who study with him and others like him, why does it offend those who don't do kata? You don't like it, don't do it. It makes no difference to you whether others do it and find it useful in it's many incarnations.

Still, arguing that ones' style is best is akin to arguing that one's religion is best or that having no faith is best ( one reason for not having religious arguments as well as political ones on here), we've seen where they lead. I like BJJ, I enjoy it, is it the best ever , no, what is? I have no idea but I do know that blowing other people's candles out doesn't make yours shine brighter. BJJ doesn't shine brighter because you think other styles are all pants.
Click to expand...
I think he is biased against the British. I heard his ancestor was killed by Benedict Arnold's wife, and his family never got over it.
 
Steve said:
I think he is biased against the British. I heard his ancestor was killed by Benedict Arnold's wife, and his family never got over it.
Click to expand...


Lol nice one lol................I'm sure that he should be made aware that us from over here will stand and form the thin red line ....won't we @Tez3 lol and fighting the proper thin red line is never a good idea.
 
Oh and that that is not the movie thin red line lol but the original one lol as in long before that movie (when the 93rd foot stood in the Crimea) before Hanzou tries to subvert that and or tries to ummm say that didn't happen and the records are biased or one sided lol
 
pdg said:
Who suggested that?
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I think one was me saying next time I was stateside if he arranged mat time I'd be happy to well see if he could back up what he said lol .... no challenge just see if he could do as he says lol....and he said thought I was disabled (which I am lol) and I said still think I could handle things lol
 
Hanzou said:
What does my personal fighting style have to do with BJJ stylists doing exceptionally well in multiple major MMA promotions?
Click to expand...


Eh cause you keep saying basically all other arts do not compare as you trained in so many and know it fact ....so it kinda does have bearing ....???....or are ya gonna side step that too lol
 
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