Fighting in schools

[Tez3]

When I was in school it was unthinkable that a student would actually attack a teacher.

It's often the parents who now come in an assault the teacher so why wouldn't the students think it's fine to do it as well? Now as well so many children see adults bullying online, making disparaging comments etc they think it's fine to do that as well. After the recent Olympic road race a British rider who really did try his best, it was obvious but didn't win had mostly good messages sent to him but some were just plain nasty for no reason at all. We had a female here threatened with being raped and murdered because she suggested Florence Nightingale be put on our new five pound notes after the Bank of England had asked for suggestions! A friend of mine attracted the same type of attention after an MMA fight, she had comments from around the world aimed at her. She's tough, articulate and very intelligent but those messages knocked her for six, the sheer nastiness aimed at her by so people she didn't know and never would. How must children feel when the same happens to them, when there's an insidious campaign against them?
Adults must take the lead here and teach children it's not right to bully, we must also make sure it's not the adults who are doing the bullying and if you look to public life, the politicians, the so called divas of the entertainment world, the media etc they need to understand bullying is wrong as well. Then perhaps the children will learn that bullying is wrong and the consequences will be nothing they like.

 

[Juany118]

It's often the parents who now come in an assault the teacher so why wouldn't the students think it's fine to do it as well? Now as well so many children see adults bullying online, making disparaging comments etc they think it's fine to do that as well. After the recent Olympic road race a British rider who really did try his best, it was obvious but didn't win had mostly good messages sent to him but some were just plain nasty for no reason at all. We had a female here threatened with being raped and murdered because she suggested Florence Nightingale be put on our new five pound notes after the Bank of England had asked for suggestions! A friend of mine attracted the same type of attention after an MMA fight, she had comments from around the world aimed at her. She's tough, articulate and very intelligent but those messages knocked her for six, the sheer nastiness aimed at her by so people she didn't know and never would. How must children feel when the same happens to them, when there's an insidious campaign against them?
Adults must take the lead here and teach children it's not right to bully, we must also make sure it's not the adults who are doing the bullying and if you look to public life, the politicians, the so called divas of the entertainment world, the media etc they need to understand bullying is wrong as well. Then perhaps the children will learn that bullying is wrong and the consequences will be nothing they like.

This forum doesn't have a <3 emote or that would have been done.

 

[Zumorito]

Wonderfully spoken!

 

[JR 137]

It's often the parents who now come in an assault the teacher so why wouldn't the students think it's fine to do it as well? Now as well so many children see adults bullying online, making disparaging comments etc they think it's fine to do that as well. After the recent Olympic road race a British rider who really did try his best, it was obvious but didn't win had mostly good messages sent to him but some were just plain nasty for no reason at all. We had a female here threatened with being raped and murdered because she suggested Florence Nightingale be put on our new five pound notes after the Bank of England had asked for suggestions! A friend of mine attracted the same type of attention after an MMA fight, she had comments from around the world aimed at her. She's tough, articulate and very intelligent but those messages knocked her for six, the sheer nastiness aimed at her by so people she didn't know and never would. How must children feel when the same happens to them, when there's an insidious campaign against them?
Adults must take the lead here and teach children it's not right to bully, we must also make sure it's not the adults who are doing the bullying and if you look to public life, the politicians, the so called divas of the entertainment world, the media etc they need to understand bullying is wrong as well. Then perhaps the children will learn that bullying is wrong and the consequences will be nothing they like.

One thing that I've learned time and time again while teaching - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[JR 137]

I think it has become more brutal both physically and emotionally. When I was in school it was unthinkable that a student would actually attack a teacher. Now it's no big deal and not a surprise when it happens. Fighting in school back then also wasn't so restricted where a person defending him or herself from harm would be punished as if they are the problem. Cyber bullying is small compared to the "in your face" verbal assaults. Literally if someone is bullying another online then that person can hit ignore or just not socialize on that website. When I was in school, there was no off button and I had to face bullies and their harassment or possible harassment every day.

I'm always like WTF? when people say they are getting bullied online and they can't take it anymore. Not sure where kids logic is but I wish my days of standing up to bullies came with all the options that kids get to handle Cyber Bullies.

The biggest difference for me where I went to school is probably my freedom to punch a bully in the mouth was encouraged where no we try to be "civil."

Not sure what went wrong but many of today's kids have a logic where they don't understand consequence.

My anecdotal observation compared to the early 90s...

More fights
Less bullying for prolonged periods

More threats against teacher and administrators
I can't say it's taken more or less seriously, as I don't remember anyone threatening teachers/admins when I was in school

Threats against teachers/admin taken very seriously, usually suspension every time. My wife (also a teacher and still teaches where I initially taught; we both graduated from that school) was the 3rd teacher a student threatened. The admin (and surprisingly the parent) found it was best to press charges against him due to this and his whole history. He's currently at an alternative school and under probation.

Physical violence against a teacher is definitely not tolerated at all. It's one of the quickest and easiest ways to expell a student. Everything else requires a ton of red tape.

You're looking at cyber bullying through the eyes of an adult. We tell them to ignore it, save it and report it, etc. Kids are kids, and somehow can't ignore it.

 

[JR 137]

If the account is true the above is true. Here is the thing schools have basically been forced to have "zero tolerance" violence policies. Doesn't matter how, who, what, where or why, that is the initial reaction. However, if one parent threatens to take them out of the Schools District Administrative realm into a Court of Law, where there are set burdens of proof vs a "because we say so" standard, suddenly things change.

Everything changes once a parent threatens to get a lawyer. Parents and kids have learned they can get away with anything this way. Only exception is public and/or written (paper and/or electronic) threats of violence.

 

[Juany118]

Everything changes once a parent threatens to get a lawyer. Parents and kids have learned they can get away with anything this way. Only exception is public and/or written (paper and/or electronic) threats of violence.

Not in all District's. Some are good at having policies that comport with the law. We talk about "target hardening" in self defense cases, they do so in legal cases. So the parents can walk in there and they get told by the school "see ya in court."

 

[Tez3]

In the UK people don't tend to go to lawyers, they are expensive for one thing and they don't pay you which the tabloids do so here it's off to the tabloid gutter press to spill all in 'exclusive' interviews. The so called reporters can bling up the story ( often against the person they are interviewing funnily enough) and sell their disgusting rags.
The Daily Mail is one of the worst so called newspapers, here they are complaining about the fact that children who are using abusive comments are being reported, these comments they have obviously learnt from their parents. here primary age is between four and a half and eleven. Daily Mail angry that kids are disciplined for homophobia

 

[senseiblackbelt]

The fact they suspended your cousin is ******. Everyone has the right of self defense at any time/place.

 

[Tez3]

The fact they suspended your cousin is ******. Everyone has the right of self defense at any time/place.

Interesting language.

 

[Tez3]

Rather than complain to me about MY language how about making sure the profanity blocker works. I'd rather you removed my post altogether rather than blaming me.

 

[drop bear]

My anecdotal observation compared to the early 90s...

More fights
Less bullying for prolonged periods

More threats against teacher and administrators
I can't say it's taken more or less seriously, as I don't remember anyone threatening teachers/admins when I was in school

Threats against teachers/admin taken very seriously, usually suspension every time. My wife (also a teacher and still teaches where I initially taught; we both graduated from that school) was the 3rd teacher a student threatened. The admin (and surprisingly the parent) found it was best to press charges against him due to this and his whole history. He's currently at an alternative school and under probation.

Physical violence against a teacher is definitely not tolerated at all. It's one of the quickest and easiest ways to expell a student. Everything else requires a ton of red tape.

You're looking at cyber bullying through the eyes of an adult. We tell them to ignore it, save it and report it, etc. Kids are kids, and somehow can't ignore it.

Being a kid is like prision. You have one social group you cannot escape. So your reputation becomes a survival mechanism.

 

[senseiblackbelt]

[QUOTE="Tez3, post: 1779221, member: 10553] Daily Mail angry that kids are disciplined for homophobia[/QUOTE] God help us.

 

[Tez3]

Your post has nothing to do with the thread but if you are going to quote from the Daily Heil....

The Daily Heil is a hate 'newspaper', it consistently publishes hate filled articles and comments that are full of lies, it supports the extreme right wing including the Nazis and Mosley's blackshirts when they were going strong. Most sensible, sane people do not read it nor do they believe what is written in it. It screams hateful headlines and is often reprimanded by the newspaper regulator for its untrue stories. There is a campaign at the moment going on called 'Stop funding hate' to get advertisers to stop putting ads in the Mail and a couple of other gutter press rags.
Daily Mail[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Transk53]

Being a kid is like prision. You have one social group you cannot escape. So your reputation becomes a survival mechanism.

Yes. It is like boarding school, where there is no escape other than to fight. An excepted norm for the teachers. Boarding school is a form of accepted rights, and the reputation garnered. So yes I would agree, reputation is everything in that context.

 

[Transk53]

The fact they suspended your cousin is ******. Everyone has the right of self defense at any time/place.

Yes, but that would depend on what is self defence, weighed against those looking for for it, and are just pissed off, using SD as a tool!

 

[wingchun100]

So my younger cousin who's 12 got into a fight at school the other day he was getting picked on by this kid in his class and the kid was pushing him and slapping him and threatening him.he then said he was going to smash his face I so my cousin punched him in the face and they got into a fight and got separated. But my cousin got in trouble because he threw the first /punch/ even though the other kid was slapping him and pushing him it was only the punch that they took notice about which to me is ridiculous. Also the fact he threatened him with physical violence as well.

I mean if the other guy was the other side of the room and yelled at him he was going to smash him I'm not saying it'd be right for him to run across the room and start beating him up but when someone's in your face being aggressive then says that I think that gives you a right to attack first because they're in close proximity in an aggressive situation and threatening violence.

I think with schools they just look at it image wise they see someone throw a punch automatically they're the one to blame but pushing and slaps that's agressive and could be counted as assault.

And if your cousin had been punched but did not punch back, he would have been in trouble then too. I knew a friend who made a conscious choice to not hit back, thinking only the bully would get suspended.

Nope, my friend got suspended too.

He was so angry over that. I felt his pain. I mean, if you are going to get suspended anyway, then fight back!!!

 

[stonewall1350]

So my younger cousin who's 12 got into a fight at school the other day he was getting picked on by this kid in his class and the kid was pushing him and slapping him and threatening him.he then said he was going to smash his face I so my cousin punched him in the face and they got into a fight and got separated. But my cousin got in trouble because he threw the first /punch/ even though the other kid was slapping him and pushing him it was only the punch that they took notice about which to me is ridiculous. Also the fact he threatened him with physical violence as well.

I mean if the other guy was the other side of the room and yelled at him he was going to smash him I'm not saying it'd be right for him to run across the room and start beating him up but when someone's in your face being aggressive then says that I think that gives you a right to attack first because they're in close proximity in an aggressive situation and threatening violence.

I think with schools they just look at it image wise they see someone throw a punch automatically they're the one to blame but pushing and slaps that's agressive and could be counted as assault.

I have a zero tolerance policy for zero tolerance policies. Sounds like your cousin is a victim of it. Too bad. Fighting is against the rules. Doesn't matter if you are the victim or not. You don't have a right to self defense in a school. And why? Because it is a major liability for the school. Your cousin gets hit first...even if it is bad and he didn't throw the first punch? And then he beats the hell out of the other kid...or just 1 punch and that kid dies or gets seriously injured? The school is liable. Not the parents. Not the kids. The school is.

Sucks doesn't it? Doesn't matter. When I was teaching I had to break up a particularly nasty fight. An 18 year old junior started trying to physically move and harm a true freshman in the cafeteria. The freshman was resisted and the 18 year old slapped him on the back of the head and tried to grab him around the neck. The freshman took a swing (and missed by a tiny bit sadly), and then the fight got broken up by me and a senior who happened to be there as well (and 18 year old even tried to fight me...thought I was a student I guess...but I had him in a control hold walking him out of the cafeteria).

Anyway. Both students got suspended. We called the freshman parents and told them, "your son is getting suspended for fighting. Don't punish him. Consider it a vacation. We will send his school work home. He was defending himself. We just have to follow school policy because of insurance liability concerns." All your cousin can hope for is that the teachers do right by him. After all...it is grade school.


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[Steve]

That sounds terrible.

 

[drop bear]

I have a zero tolerance policy for zero tolerance policies. Sounds like your cousin is a victim of it. Too bad. Fighting is against the rules. Doesn't matter if you are the victim or not. You don't have a right to self defense in a school. And why? Because it is a major liability for the school. Your cousin gets hit first...even if it is bad and he didn't throw the first punch? And then he beats the hell out of the other kid...or just 1 punch and that kid dies or gets seriously injured? The school is liable. Not the parents. Not the kids. The school is.

Sucks doesn't it? Doesn't matter. When I was teaching I had to break up a particularly nasty fight. An 18 year old junior started trying to physically move and harm a true freshman in the cafeteria. The freshman was resisted and the 18 year old slapped him on the back of the head and tried to grab him around the neck. The freshman took a swing (and missed by a tiny bit sadly), and then the fight got broken up by me and a senior who happened to be there as well (and 18 year old even tried to fight me...thought I was a student I guess...but I had him in a control hold walking him out of the cafeteria).

Anyway. Both students got suspended. We called the freshman parents and told them, "your son is getting suspended for fighting. Don't punish him. Consider it a vacation. We will send his school work home. He was defending himself. We just have to follow school policy because of insurance liability concerns." All your cousin can hope for is that the teachers do right by him. After all...it is grade school.


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Such is life.

Sometimes you have to break the rules. Get caught and do the grind.

Of course i also come country founded by convicts.