English in the US

[dart68]

Are you sure you speak English? :rofl:

Actually, I think we speak americanese.

 

[michaeledward]

Just gotta play that card, huh?

Seems to me the original poster is 'playing that card'. This is a minor lawsuit that should be thrown out of court. Why is a Pennsylvania lawsuit even known to someone in Sanger California, if it wasn't the 'that card'?

And, when I worked in a small business, we lived by the maxim, 'The Customer is Always Right'. And the dollar was the language of business.

But everybody can keep right on demonstrating how THEY are not possibly prejudiced against 'The Other'. Was it Shakespear who said, "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

I once travelled through Quebec province. You know, it is damn awkward to not speak the native language. Fortuneately, nobody in Canada attempted to have me drawn and quartered for speaking in my native tongue.

 

[kuntawguro]

Seems to me the original poster is 'playing that card'. This is a minor lawsuit that should be thrown out of court. Why is a Pennsylvania lawsuit even known to someone in Sanger California, if it wasn't the 'that card'?

And, when I worked in a small business, we lived by the maxim, 'The Customer is Always Right'. And the dollar was the language of business.

But everybody can keep right on demonstrating how THEY are not possibly prejudiced against 'The Other'. Was it Shakespear who said, "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

I once travelled through Quebec province. You know, it is damn awkward to not speak the native language. Fortuneately, nobody in Canada attempted to have me drawn and quartered for speaking in my native tongue.

Then you weren't in Quebec- They refuse to serve you if you do not speak French! I was married to a Canadian and even the non french speaking ontario people get the shaft when in Quebec.

 

[MJS]

Seems to me the original poster is 'playing that card'. This is a minor lawsuit that should be thrown out of court. Why is a Pennsylvania lawsuit even known to someone in Sanger California, if it wasn't the 'that card'?

And, when I worked in a small business, we lived by the maxim, 'The Customer is Always Right'. And the dollar was the language of business.

But everybody can keep right on demonstrating how THEY are not possibly prejudiced against 'The Other'. Was it Shakespear who said, "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

I once travelled through Quebec province. You know, it is damn awkward to not speak the native language. Fortuneately, nobody in Canada attempted to have me drawn and quartered for speaking in my native tongue.

Well, if I gave the impression that I'm prejudice, thats simply not the case. I don't see how asking someone to learn the language in the country that they're now residing in, is asking too much.

Let me give you an example of why I think its important to know the language. I believe I've mentioned to you that I work as a dispatcher for a PD. I've taken many 911 calls from frantic people who did not speak English. I have to put this person on hold, and call a number for a translation service. I have to give the person some information and then tell them what language I need. They then connect me with a person who speaks the language. I then connect the other person and together, try to figure out what the problem is.

This task is not as easy as it sounds. There have been many times when the person originally calling hangs up. Now, I have no idea as to what the emergency is, and which service to send. The house could be burning down, someone could be having a medical issue, or there could be a disturbance. I'm sending services in blind, because I can't give them any info, because the original caller cant speak English. I have to go with limited information, and hope that I'm doing the right thing.

Then, there have been times when the only person that speaks English is a child. Now, I have to go thru a child to translate to their parent and hope that the child is understanding me. Fortunately, more times than not, things have worked out.

So, basically Mike, that is why I feel that its important to know the language.

 

[Bigshadow]

But everybody can keep right on demonstrating how THEY are not possibly prejudiced against 'The Other'. Was it Shakespear who said, "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

Everyone is prejudiced to some degree, including those that protest too. It is only natural!

However, that wasn't the point of this thread!

 

[theletch1]

Everyone is prejudiced to some degree, including those that protest too. It is only natural!

However, that wasn't the point of this thread!

But it will quickly become the issue with little effort if allowed to. Very few debates in this country get very far before terms like racist, prejudiced, x-phobic get tossed around. We're so afraid of being labeled something negative that we're not that we'll knuckle under, bow our head and drop the argument.

I drive for a living and can't count the number of warning signs, info signs and others that don't have a picture to go with them that are in english only. How do you safely operate a vehicle in this country without knowing the language? I couldn't do it in Italy or Russia or Japan.

 

[jks9199]

Seems to me the original poster is 'playing that card'. This is a minor lawsuit that should be thrown out of court. Why is a Pennsylvania lawsuit even known to someone in Sanger California, if it wasn't the 'that card'?

And, when I worked in a small business, we lived by the maxim, 'The Customer is Always Right'. And the dollar was the language of business.

But everybody can keep right on demonstrating how THEY are not possibly prejudiced against 'The Other'. Was it Shakespear who said, "methinks the lady doth protest too much".

I once travelled through Quebec province. You know, it is damn awkward to not speak the native language. Fortuneately, nobody in Canada attempted to have me drawn and quartered for speaking in my native tongue.

Except that the customer isn't always right, and very few businesses that don't understand that -- and know how to convey effectively, not offensively, when the customer is wrong will stay in business long.

But, I suspect, as seems to be your common tendency, you simply tried to rile people up. What's it matter why the OP knew about it; maybe he's got a small business, and this issue was circulated as a warning to them. Maybe he knows one of the parties. Or maybe he's just interested in the topic.

Maybe you think there's something wrong with my thinking that there's a problem when I have to speak a different language to deal with and help the people living in my community -- or when there are days that go by where I almost don't speak my native language IN MY NATIVE COUNTRY.

I have several students at school whose parents are immigrants, from countries all over the world. They are all learning English as quickly as they can; those who were already literate in their native language generally have an advantage learning to read once they have a certain level of conversational fluency, but they all want to learn - and their parents are right there with them, learning as much as they can, if often not as quickly as their children, who are immersed in English all day at school - along with the fact that all other things being equal, children (the younger the better) generally learn languages more easily than adults.

I have several students at school whose parents - and grandparents - were born in the US, into Hispanic communities. The parents and grandparents speak little, if any, English, and the children resent being told that they must learn English - especially written English - to succeed in school. They don't speak English at home; they don't speak English in the community - in fact, several have told me over the years that their families go out of their way to not speak English if they can possible avoid it, even when it causes them problems. They go out of their way to bring interpreters even when they do speak fluent English, to prove that they have the right to speak Spanish, even when it makes the situation more difficult... and they tend to get really angry at teachers who do speak Spanish, and call their children on rude comments made in Spanish - because they should only get in trouble if the comment is in English; that's why they taught their kids to make their rude comments in Spanish in the first place. In addition, the parents who are least interested in learning English are generally the ones who are the least literate in Spanish as well - leaving their children at a disadvantage when learning English when compared to children whose parents read to them in any language from a young age.

It constantly amazes me that people would rely on their children to communicate and translate for them. I once ticketed an Asian woman for disregarding a highway sign ($30 fine); her friend was translating for her at court. Well, I happened to write two tickets that month to Asians with the surname "Lee" (or whatever it was). She comes up, her friend "translates" what the judge says, and her answers. She pleads guilty. To speeding, with a fine of around $150. I know (though I can't prove) her friend simply said "plead guilty" to her. Fortunately, for her, I guess when she went to pay, the error was caught. And I was still close enough to the courthouse to come in and have the right hearing.

I deal with lots of Hispanics, because I do speak Spanish, passably if not fluently. I get a laugh when they try to play the "no habla" game... until I speak Spanish. Then they answer my questions (asked in Spanish) in English!

 

[FearlessFreep]

One thing that makes this country great is that we don't ask people to leave their cultural heritage behind. We have our Chintowns and Little Italys and what not. But we ask people to bring their culture into our own to make it a part of the larger culture they are now a part of. We do not force people to speak english in their cultural niches, yet we do expect them, when dealing with the culture at large, to be a part of the culture at large. Our language becomes on of those intersection points where those of us of Mexican or Chinese or Irish or French or Russian or Korean decent become Americans with each other

 

[Bigshadow]

One thing that makes this country great is that we don't ask people to leave their cultural heritage behind. We have our Chintowns and Little Italys and what not. But we ask people to bring their culture into our own to make it a part of the larger culture they are now a part of. We do not force people to speak english in their cultural niches, yet we do expect them, when dealing with the culture at large, to be a part of the culture at large. Our language becomes on of those intersection points where those of us of Mexican or Chinese or Irish or French or Russian or Korean decent become Americans with each other

They didn't assimilate.

 

[michaeledward]

But, I suspect, as seems to be your common tendency, you simply tried to rile people up.

Well, that is just about the most insulting thing you could say.

That an opinion strongly held could be different from yours is so outside your comprehension that you claim it is only to 'rile people up'.

Heil! Heil! Heil!

Strength through Purity, Purity Through Faith

 

[FearlessFreep]

Well, that is just about the most insulting thing you could say

Don't call people racist and then feign offense when they call you a trouble maker

 

[MJS]

Guys, this is obviously a hot topic. Lets try to keep things civil, and continue on with a good discussion.

 

[Big Don]

Seems to me the original poster is 'playing that card'. This is a minor lawsuit that should be thrown out of court. Why is a Pennsylvania lawsuit even known to someone in Sanger California, if it wasn't the 'that card'?

Projection:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Projection
11.Psychology. a.the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself, or to regard external reality as embodying such feelings, thoughts, etc., in some way.How do I know of a minor lawsuit in Pennsylvania? The same way I know of damn near every weird news story I see; I'm an internet junkie, a weird news junkie. That is how I know. Why is it of interest to me? Gee, I don't know, why are big chested,long haired brunettes of interest to me? Does THAT make me a racist too?

People like Michael Edward, call them liberals call them socialists, cannot stand to be wrong, and when they are wrong on an issue, must project some nefarious reason; i.e., racism, sexism, bigotry, etc, to deflect the aura of wrong onto their opponents.

 

[jks9199]

Well, that is just about the most insulting thing you could say.

That an opinion strongly held could be different from yours is so outside your comprehension that you claim it is only to 'rile people up'.

Heil! Heil! Heil!

Strength through Purity, Purity Through Faith

And comparing me to Hitler is not insulting?

You threw one line out, insinuating that racist views were the only reason a person might have been aware of the case that prompted this thread or posted on it. You tarred everyone with that brush of racism if they felt that if someone is living here in the USA, you should try to acquire a functional knowledge of English.

I offered several rational reasons, other than racism, why someone might be aware of the case. Nor have I ever suggested you don't have the right to disagree with me. You're absolutely entitled to disagree; hell, it'd be a boring world if everyone thought like me. I take that back... it wouldn't be boring. It'd be downright scary.

How about offering some input to this thread, instead of accusations? How is it a good thing for people to refuse to learn the language of the culture where they live? How is it beneficial for them to be unable to read the street signs? Why should the government have to provide many different translations of all it's paperwork for people who expect services, but won't learn the language?

 

[Big Don]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jks9199
But, I suspect, as seems to be your common tendency, you simply tried to rile people up.

Well, that is just about the most insulting thing you could say.

It is also absolutely on target from what I have seen of your behavior here.

That an opinion strongly held could be different from yours is so outside your comprehension that you claim it is only to 'rile people up'.

Heil! Heil! Heil!

Uh, Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Strength through Purity, Purity Through Faith

Accusing people of racism and now, apparently some kind of religious bigotry too? For the record, language has nothing whatsoever to do with race. I may be a big white guy, but, I don't speak German, Flemish, or Russian. My little sister is a tiny blond but, she does speak Spanish, because she chooses to.
The people who limit any discussion of English in the US as applying only to Hispanics are the ignorant bigots who think the ONLY reason anyone opposes Illegal Immigration is a hatred of Mexicans. Mostly, these bigots are known as democrats.

 

[Jade Tigress]

ATTENTION ALL USERS

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator

 

[RED]

Guys back off the Japan thing. I lived there for a while. And yes you can get around the country without speaking a word of Japanese, and the Japanese do go out of thier way to cater to your needs, generally speaking. I did run into a few people who refused to talk to me because I'm obviously American, but they where older. This probably has a lot to do with America occuping the country after WWII. You can even drive because the road signs are in Kangi and english. In England I ran into a french waitor that gave me a rough time because of my Red hair. I wish I thought of the "Gingerism" card, I'm sure Pizza Hut would have settled quickly for a lot of Money.

My In-laws family immagrated here in the '30s. Their English was poor, but they refused to speak Italian because they worked very hard to become Americans and sacrificed a lot. Even through WWII. These are the people who when asked what their nationality is their respondes are "Americans". They never thought of coming to America as an easy thing. I would like to be able to ask what Mr. Vento what his Nationality is? This guy seems to be everything the left hates. Successful, self made American.

Or simply remove the sign and everytime he can't understand what is being ordered put salt and pepper on the chees cake. (just kidding)

I work with a bunch of people from Africa. They work hard, they speak the language very well. Many are here going to school to better themselves. They get frustrated when I ask them to repeat theirselves for the 5th time but they have yet to tell me to learn their language. Why isn't the civil rights groups casing me around? ...I don't have any money for them to steal in a law suite. Like Mr. Vento.

If you want to find the real motive behind the lefts missions follow the money.

 

[Big Don]

To elaborate a little:
Speak all the languages you want, speak two, speak 6, speak 9. I'll applaud that, I'll envy you that. But, if you are going to be a part of American society, you need to speak English.
Like I said before, Congress doesn't conduct it's business in Farsi, or Italian, or Flemish. Likewise, if James Vento wants to conduct his business in English, because ALL of his employees and 82% of the population speaks English he should not be penalized because there are whiners who CHOOSE not to speak English.

Like I said, my sister's ex-husband was Columbian. I asked him how hard it was for him to learn English, he said English was very hard to learn (he also speaks Portuguese and Italian) What made it hardest was our American tendency to use slang constantly.
Why did he learn to speak and read four languages? Because it benefited him to do so. He is now an RN and where he works, RN's who speak two languages are paid more than those who speak one. His speaking four adds considerably to the not insignificant pay he gets already.

 

[michaeledward]

Well, that is just about the most insulting thing you could say

Don't call people racist and then feign offense when they call you a trouble maker

I don't believe I called anyone who posts on this board a racist. Perhaps you could find I did, and point that out to me.

I said that this issue ... the lawsuit and its propagation on Bill O'Reilly and Michael Smirconishs' radio programs, ... is being using as tool to separate "The Other".

The accusation I did make, is that some people are willing to blindly accept what bile is fed to them through Oceania's Ministry of Truth; just as was done in 1930's Germany, or more recently in fiction in the movie 'V for Vendetta'.

Should the resturant owner be exempt from local laws?

And, really, people, we are talking about ordering lunch. We are not talking about prescription medication, police reports, or legal documents. This lawsuit is about ~ literally ~ a ham sandwich; (with provolone (is that English?))

 

[Big Don]

I don't believe I called anyone who posts on this board a racist. Perhaps you could find I did, and point that out to me.

No, you implied I was a racist, because you lacked the courage to make the accusation like a man.

I said that this issue ... the lawsuit and its propagation on Bill O'Reilly and Michael Smirconishs' radio programs, ... is being using as tool to separate "The Other".

Encouraging people to assimilate is a tool for separating them? How does that work?

The accusation I did make, is that some people are willing to blindly accept what bile is fed to them through Oceania's Ministry of Truth; just as was done in 1930's Germany, or more recently in fiction in the movie 'V for Vendetta'.

What the hell? Please put that in a form people without cranial rectal inversion can read

Should the resturant owner be exempt from local laws?

Should local laws preempt a restaurant owner's right to free speech?

And, really, people, we are talking about ordering lunch. We are not talking about prescription medication, police reports, or legal documents. This lawsuit is about ~ literally ~ a ham sandwich; (with provolone (is that English?))

Do you feel a need to be wrong about everything?
It's a steak sandwich, hence, Geno's Steaks.