Dropped my sparring partner, so he says

[JowGaWolf]

In your method, you have less time to react off a jab which makes it more difficult and riskier.

In your method, you have less time to react off a jab which makes it more difficult and riskier.

My method is parry and attack. Parry jab is fairly easy so long as you aren't parrying at your face. TMA says Parry the Jab before the body punch. The parry +Punch is done at the same time but in reality the parry will land before the punch. The actions of the parry and the punch however start at the same time..

In the image below, The parry and the loading of occur at the same time. Even if he wanted to do a reverse punch the the rear hand is loaded and fires so that it lands. Even if the punch gets past your hand, the punch can still be moved.

This is the TMA method of parrying a jab.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If my opponent moves to my side door, I can move with them (action/reaction principle) neutralizing their movement. Back fist is illegal in boxing.

We are talking Martial Arts and using Boxing to highlight some of the martial arts concepts that we are explaining. If we were only talking about Boxing then there would be no need to mention kicks, foot hooks or TMA.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Parry is a little late, shown by where the parry lands on the elbow but not the forearm.

while I was not able to affect the punch as it was coming in, I can still affect how it returns to him. There is also still a chance that the parry affects the incoming jab and it will move it just before it lands. I have had that happen as well.

Parry close to the face means
1. If you are late then you get get.
2. If you are too early then you get hit.

Boxers like to parry close to to their face and that's probably because of the gloves. The difference between this parry and a TMA parry is that That we don't want the punch to go into our other shoulder. Why? Because that same turning motion with the parry can be used to send a punch. If I have them punch my shoulder then it will interrupt the punch. Ths is a basic concept in TMA

Parrying a jab to the body works the same way. Move that parrying motion to power the punch

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I've seen boxers use CMA type parries, where they parry the attacking arm to the inside, but it's only half of the opportunity. Some parry and punch but some parry and cover. The title of this video is Advance Parry so my guess is Ww'll probaly see more of it in the future. For us and others in TMA, this would be basic and not advanced. Someone in the boxing circle would have to let us know where this sits in todays boacing. Tim would definitely know.

CMA would say do it this way.

I see this the parry + Punch more in mma


Sorry about respond to that. I will say nothing else about safe zone. I asked Marvin what martial arts does he train but I didn't see a reply to that. If I knew what he trained then I can take that keep that perspective in mind when I respond. That way I can at least post video of what I'm talking about if there is confusion

IMO someone who posts endless videos to argue their point but won’t respond to the questions posed like what they train in is suspect. Lots of people watch fights and can armchair all day. I don’t care a damn for fight commentary, I have eyes that see. I prefer to train rather than watch fights, but if I do, I watch them on mute. Same with football if I even bother to watch it. I come here to discuss with people who actually train.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If my opponent moves to my side door, I can move with them (action/reaction principle) neutralizing their movement. Back fist is illegal in boxing.


Should boxers always be concerned to move only one way away from the rear hand? No. There are many reasons fighters should circle both directions from a safe distance. For example, you circle towards my lead hand I KO you with my lead hook. You are predictable when you only circle one way, etc.

Per Georges St. Pierre, "That's a cliche. It's not true... Just don't step into the danger zone [fight zone]. But, I am totally fine as long as I only step this way out of range [safe zone], My opponent can't touch me here [safe zone]..."

You watch too much tv.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My method is parry and attack.

Do you like to parry with

1. back hand and punch with leading hand, or
2. leading hand and punch with back hand?

I prefer 1 myself.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Should boxers always be concerned to move only one way away from the rear hand? No. There are many reasons fighters should circle both directions from a safe distance.

When your opponent moves

- away from your back hand, if he pushes on your leading elbow joint, your back hand cannot punch out.
- toward your back hand, he won't have that advantage.

 

[marvin8]

When your opponent moves

- away from your back hand, if he pushes on your leading elbow joint, your back hand cannot punch out.
- toward your back hand, he won't have that advantage.

As you step and try to grab my leading arm, I chase your center/face.

https://imgur.com/FCRcqHL

Understand safe distance, always attack the center and do not chase hands.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you like to parry with

1. back hand and punch with leading hand, or
2. leading hand and punch with back hand?

I prefer 1 myself.

I do both equally well. I think because I strike the guard/ lead hand when it starts creeping into mid to close range territory. When it gets that close, then I start thinking clinch warning. I may or may not hit the long guard depending on what it's doing. But hitting the guard may help with developing front or rear hand parry..

 

[JowGaWolf]

As you step and try to grab my leading arm, I chase your center/face.

That clip is the worst example ever of what you are saying. You literally pick a horrible fighter to base your comment on as if your statement is the norm for people with intermediate skill level.

That person got caught with the feint jab and he entered on the inside toward the power hand. CMA says enter on the outside. He could ha entered on the inside but it has to be done the right way.

There is an empty space that helps missed parties. If the hand goes beyond that point then you either went to early or the punch isn't coming. That martial artist probably doesn't much experience with sparred alone sparring against other systems.

I've only used videos like that to highlight the importance of sparring.

 

[marvin8]

I've seen boxers use CMA type parries, where they parry the attacking arm to the inside, but it's only half of the opportunity. Some parry and punch but some parry and cover. The title of this video is Advance Parry so my guess is Ww'll probaly see more of it in the future. For us and others in TMA, this would be basic and not advanced. Someone in the boxing circle would have to let us know where this sits in todays boacing. Tim would definitely know.

CMA would say do it this way.

I see this the parry + Punch more in mma


Sorry about respond to that. I will say nothing else about safe zone. I asked Marvin what martial arts does he train but I didn't see a reply to that. If I knew what he trained then I can take that keep that perspective in mind when I respond. That way I can at least post video of what I'm talking about if there is confusion

We should have enough videos for you to discuss your definitions of safe and fighting distance versus the simple conventional definitions already posted. Comparing differences in boxing, MMA or TMA techniques is not relevant to understanding fighting range. Only distance between two fighters and fighting concepts regardless of style should be important in discussing range.

I've asked you multiple times virtually the same question which I don't believe you answered.

Yes, this is what I have been explaining repeatedly. In your image, both you and I are in the fight zone, because you can reach me. Now, do you agree or
disagree?

Are you willing to answer the question? That would make it easier to understand you to start...

I believe you are confused and/or overcomplicating it. Do you believe there is a distance where neither opponent can reach one another, yes or no? If yes, that is widely considered a safe zone.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

your definitions of safe and fighting distance

My definition of "safe distance" is a distance that your kick and punch cannot land on me without moving your back leg.

 

[Fungus]

My definition of "safe distance" is a distance that your kick and punch cannot land on me without moving your back leg.

You don't count the most powerful attacks, coming from kicking with the back leg? (turning kicks, pivoting on the front leg).

 

[Badhabits]

As you step and try to grab my leading arm, I chase your center/face.

https://imgur.com/FCRcqHL

Why in the name of all that's holy would that guy just stand there like that and wait to get his block knocked off. He should've been moving his feet ages ago.
This is the exact kind of thing that makes karate look stupid

 

[Badhabits]

That's where I would want to move to the outside and forward a little while parrying the jab to the inside and throwing a left at his face all as one motion, hoping he'd crash into my left.
Easy to say as I sit in my chair here drinking a cup of coffee lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As you step and try to grab my leading arm, I chase your center/face.

You punch across your body as your lead hand is pushed into the path of your rear hand?

I've asked you multiple times virtually the same question which I don't believe you answered.

What question is that? Are you asking me what system do I train?

Why in the name of all that's holy would that guy just stand there like that and wait to get his block knocked off. He should've been moving his feet ages ago.
This is the exact kind of thing that makes karate look stupid

Lack of sparring experience and not understanding what is coming at him. Karate is safe from being safe. Even kung fu. Most people understand that this performance is a reflection on an individual's skill set and not a system skill set. You can look at how these guys get into fighting position and just know that they were new to this type of sparring.

Most if not all of these fights were directed towards martial artist who were either "fake" or had little to no fight experience claiming that they were dangerous with their skills. To be honest, the fight wasn't needed to make this clear. It was clear when they faced off or when they came to the match in long sleeve shirts and pants. The good that came out of those fights is that a lot of Kung Fu schools got back to business and stepped up their game because they didn't want to be associated with that nonsense.

You can see the transition here. Earlier videos show more form. Then it gets application heavy. This is in large thanks to the students who didn't want to know just forms. They also wanted to be able to use it. The worst thing about Martial Arts is training with the assumption that you are learning how to fight only to find out that you can't use any of what you trained. As long as students want to learn how to fight, the school should provide a path

Derek Tai Lik Johnson

Cheung Tai Lik’s Jow Ga Kung Fu 張大力 - 周家功 夫

www.youtube.com

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We should have enough videos for you to discuss your definitions of safe and fighting distance versus the simple conventional definitions already posted. Comparing differences in boxing, MMA or TMA techniques is not relevant to understanding fighting range. Only distance between two fighters and fighting concepts regardless of style should be important in discussing range.

I've asked you multiple times virtually the same question which I don't believe you answered.

And you have been asked a question many times that you have not answered… We have established that you are an nth degree YouTube watcher. Other than commentating from your couch what martial arts do you practice, if any? Lots of videos of lots of people other than you don’t lend much to your argument.

 

[marvin8]

You punch across your body as your lead hand is pushed into the path of your rear hand?

When the opponent moves I move, then attack the center.

What question is that? Are you asking me what system do I train?

No, the questions are in post #231.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When the opponent moves I move, then attack the center.

So, you never move forward or stand your ground? Do you only move when your opponent moves? Do you ever attack, or do you only defend?

When you are looking at that video you have to look to see what perspective the application is being applied, is it being applied to grappling or striking.

I know the striking version of that application and I had the experience of feeling it applied to me. In striking this technique is done when you jab. It does 3 things.
1. It hyper extends the elbow.
2. It knocks the person off balance
3. I push the arm at an angle towards your rear hand.

You won't have the opportunity to move out of the way of this technique if you are fully committed to jab. 1 of 2 things will happen
1. You jab, I get the timing wrong and I get hit in the face
2. You jab I get the timing right, and I injure your arm and or successfully move it out of the way. so i can use a follow up strike.

Ether way you will not have the option to "move out of the way of this technique" once you are committed. Just like I will not have the option to move out of the way once I'm committed to the technique that Kung Fu Wang showed.

If you do not know the technique or if you haven't had it done to you, then you wouldn't even know what to watch for.

Tony and I were grappling at the Martial Talk meet ups. I begin to escape and thought I would have made it free, Tony said that he would have broken my ankle, I trust him on that. But more importantly, I didn't know to look for that. If you can't identify the set up for the technique then you will not be able to move away from it. You may get luck and move out of the range of the technique without knowing but eventually that technique will hunt you down like snake. It will stalk you again until it's in range to strike.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Do you like to parry with

1. back hand and punch with leading hand, or
2. leading hand and punch with back hand?

I prefer 1 myself.

Ideally, parry with the front then strike with the front - back hand for 2nd layer of defense or to continue the attack.