Don't tell them you know martial arts

[ballen0351]

Nonsense.

Most people are fortunate enough to go their entire lives never needing to defend themselves....it has nothing to do with "capability," and more to do with circumstance.......karma?........luck.

Nope its common sense and the fact that there really isnt a boogie man lurking in every shadow.

 

[elder999]

Nope its common sense and the fact that there really isnt a boogie man lurking in every shadow.

Nope. There's boogie men sitting next to us on the bus, every day.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Nonsense. Most people are fully capable of going their entire lives never needing to defend themselves.

Some people but I wouldn't say most and much of it depends on location. In places such as New York, New Jersey, Detroit Michigan, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and other such places you most likely will have to defend yourself sometime or another. If you're out in the middle of nowhere where the closest other resident is miles away than perhaps not.

And, if you go to college you're more likely than not going to have to defend yourself sometime or another. College is a zoo. I know because I've been there.

 

[crazydiamond]

I lived just outside of the Detroit area - 9 mile road. I went to a large big 10 university. Afterwards I worked in a major US city (but lived in burbs). I have never been attacked or needed to defend myself - since I was over 18 (I had a few minor issues in grade and high school). Perhaps my physical size helped avoid this, or the fact I like to avoid serious conflict, or perhaps maybe lucky.

 

[BMhadoken]

Some people but I wouldn't say most and much of it depends on location. In places such as New York, New Jersey, Detroit Michigan, Los Angeles, Washington D.C. and other such places you most likely will have to defend yourself sometime or another. If you're out in the middle of nowhere where the closest other resident is miles away than perhaps not.

Those cities are not universally wretched hives. Stay out of the projects and you'll probably be fine. Middle-upper class neighborhoods and tourist hotspots tend to be rather low on violence.

And, if you go to college you're more likely than not going to have to defend yourself sometime or another. College is a zoo. I know because I've been there.

Poppycock. Your early 20s college lads are concerned with status and respect, not kicking your *** for its own sake. Getting out of an honor-duel with them is the most trivial thing in the world.

 

[drop bear]

So, in court it will carry less weight against you if you choke somebody out rather than if you were to brain them with a hammer.

In Australia if I am drunk hitting someone can carry a greater sentence than stabbing them. Because we just set up these one punch laws.

 

[drop bear]

Those cities are not universally wretched hives. Stay out of the projects and you'll probably be fine. Middle-upper class neighborhoods and tourist hotspots tend to be rather low on violence.


Poppycock. Your early 20s college lads are concerned with status and respect, not kicking your *** for its own sake. Getting out of an honor-duel with them is the most trivial thing in the world.

Monkey dance fights are also predatory. Some people gain status and respect by beating up other people. Whether they are avoiding confrontation or not.

Coming from someone who has seen a few unnecessary victims of the above mentality.

 

[granfire]

Nope its common sense and the fact that there really isnt a boogie man lurking in every shadow.

So Fox News lied?!!!

 

[BMhadoken]

Monkey dance fights are also predatory. Some people gain status and respect by beating up other people. Whether they are avoiding confrontation or not.

Coming from someone who has seen a few unnecessary victims of the above mentality.

Those sorts of encounters tend to follow a different script than an escalating fight between two jerkoffs with too much pride. They're also comparatively rare.

That aside, I don't know your laws, but here if a group mobs on you then you're legally pretty much free to go completely hog wild until they start running or you can.

 

[Transk53]

In Australia if I am drunk hitting someone can carry a greater sentence than stabbing them. Because we just set up these one punch laws.

Depends what you are stabbing them with when your drunk I guess.

 

[drop bear]

Those sorts of encounters tend to follow a different script than an escalating fight between two jerkoffs with too much pride. They're also comparatively rare.

That aside, I don't know your laws, but here if a group mobs on you then you're legally pretty much free to go completely hog wild until they start running or you can.

You are projecting every fight into a mutual confrontation. Sometimes it is and could be considered avoidable. Sometimes it isn't.

Now regarding that I will engage in a fight or at least in force if the other persons bad behaviour is too extreme regardless as to whether they are an immediate threat or if I conceivably could have de escalated.

 

[BMhadoken]

You are projecting every fight into a mutual confrontation. Sometimes it is and could be considered avoidable. Sometimes it isn't.

I'm aware. You talking about things like wolf packs?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Now regarding that I will engage in a fight or at least in force if the other persons bad behaviour is too extreme regardless as to whether they are an immediate threat or if I conceivably could have de escalated.

If you can deescalate and don't even try, then you're the problem, and I hope you get to spend a few years in an 8'x10' cell with a hairy backed knuckle dragging mouth breather named Bubba who wants to be your special friend.

There is never a valid reason to resort to force against someone who is not an immediate threat. Never.

 

[Hanzou]

Again, you didn't read what I posted. I specifically differentiated between self defence and combatives yet you ignored self defense and posted combatives. And, for what it's worth, we learned that stomp in karate decades ago as kakato geri and yes done with intent it can cause fatal injuries, as can a lot of other techniques. I'm surprised that you would actually acknowledge that we do train lethal techniques.

But again, just because we train potentially lethal techniques doesn't turn us into an out of control robotic killing machine. In a self defence situation I do advocate the stomp as the last technique you might utilise before running away, just that it is at the opposite end of the body on the inner ankle. Just means he's unlikely to be able to run after you.

I never said it turned you into an "out of control killing machine". I said that once you decide to stomp someone on the ground with enough force to incapacitate them, you're setting yourself up for potentially killing them as well. You simply can't fully control the outcome of that attack the way you can control a choke.

In other words, you're more likely to kill someone from those self defense finishing moves you see in Krav Maga, Karate, etc. Than from a choke hold.

 

[Hanzou]

Not everybody who defends themselves is an "untrained thug". Most are untrained regular people.

If you're trying to purposely kill someone with a choke, you're an untrained thug. It takes quite a bit of effort (and a bit of premeditation) to make a choke lethal

And in case you didn't notice, this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with sport. It's about self defense.
Stop trying to derail it with off topic posts.

I was simply squashing the notion that people are instantly brain damaged from chokes, or that people are instantly brain damaged from chokes after losing consciousness. The fact that all of that happens in competition with no brain damage or deaths disproves that nonsense.

 

[seasoned]

This was the original post. Geared toward self defense...

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, return to the original topic.

Wes Yager
Senior MT Moderator

 

[MJS]

If you're ever involved in a gunfight, what I heard is it can be described like this. Lets say you were to take out a hundred dollars and make a bet. If you lose you lose the $100. If you win you get to keep the $100 which was yours to begin with. Not the best deal. Another words, in a gunfight at the very best you just might walk away having lost nothing. At the very worst you can lose everything. Even if you manage to survive and stop the assailant then you've got to deal with criminal and civil charges in court. Even the most justified self defense shootings can ruin a person civilly and financially if not criminally. So, its best to avoid gunfights at all costs.

Anyway, what Im talking about in this thread is not gunfights. Im talking about if you take somebody down with your bare hands and you have a background in the martial arts, or even if you don't have a background in the martial arts the fact is you didn't use any weapons so its not the same as a gunfight. A gunfight is at a whole different level. Therefore I don't see why somebody who refuses to be a victim by laying out a bully should get in trouble for it. This isn't gunfights we're talking about, this is fights where you don't use any weapons so the courts shouldn't go crazy and come down hard on you for stuff like this. You shouldn't even have to go to court in the first place. Self defense is a right and a right is something you can do without being punished, that's what makes it a right. You don't punish people for refusing to be victims.

Because the majority of the time you have good options available that don't involve beating someone back into diapers. If you can reasonably walk away from a confrontation and your ego demands you punch the guy instead, then you can sleep in the bed you made.

^^^^ Yes! I agree with this! I'm of the mind that we shouldn't have to always walk in fear, ie: fear of a fight, fear of the aftermath, if you need to defend yourself, but as it was said, if you can walk away, well, may as well do it. Of course, each situation will vary.

PG, the reality is, even if you defend yourself against the bad guy, he'll still try to paint himself as the victim. Him, his family, they'll all portray him as the innocent, even if he really isn't. What would the reasonable person do? This is why I talked about assessing what you do for each situation.

 

[drop bear]

If you can deescalate and don't even try, then you're the problem, and I hope you get to spend a few years in an 8'x10' cell with a hairy backed knuckle dragging mouth breather named Bubba who wants to be your special friend.

There is never a valid reason to resort to force against someone who is not an immediate threat. Never.

So I walk up and spit in your mums food.

 

[MJS]

Actually it doesn't, because if you're trained to bash someone's brains in, you're going to bash their brains in regardless if you mean to or not. There's been plenty of cases where guys get knocked out, land on the concrete, and the defender rushes in to finish him off with a few punches to the head. Heck, some of the self defense icons love to show follow-up stomps to the throat or to the head after someone is laying on the ground. Either one of those could kill someone.

A person trained to choke someone is taught to release them either when they submit, or when they go limp. I know exactly when to release someone because I can feel when someone isn't resisting a choke anymore. And yeah, putting someone to sleep is far more humane than pounding them into submission with my fists.

And IMO, the person who is trained, but can't control their actions, missed out on some valuable lessons. I came from a Kenpo background...an art known for the 'over kill' in its techniques. If we have to bust up the guys arm, gouge his eyes, etc, all for a simple shirt grab..lol..well, like I said, lessons lost IMO.

As far as rushing in to hit them with a few more shots...tempting as it is, that's a no no. That's akin to a LEO cuffing a guy, and while he's on the ground, getting in a few shots. Tempting, especially after you had to chase after him, fight with him, etc,? Sure. Is it morally correct? Hell no.

 

[drop bear]

So I walk up and spit in your mums food.

Sorry that was half a concept. Say you do something that is awful and I act using force Eg. i jump up and slap you.

You feel that deserves a to be a prison sentence and to be molested while inside.

And you think I have the moral vacuum?