Self Defence AGAINST an officer

[Buka]

and did the other three passengers who would have also been asked to leave their seats do so very quickly after that 'demonstration'? I would also like to know the basis for choosing which passengers were to be asked to get off the aircraft.

I wonder if they left before, or after? I'm also asking myself what I would do if I was ordered off a plane.

 

[Steve]

But the contract is a civil matter. We aren't trained in civil matters or have authority to make decisions on civil matters. For us to get involved in civil matters typically we require a ruling from a civil court or an opinion from our legal department.

Thats the problem that this falls into.

But these weren't cops. You guys keep mixing up general matters with the facts of this case.

 

[CB Jones]

But these weren't cops. You guys keep mixing up general matters with the facts of this case.

We got that just...just discussing the law on this in theory as if police did respond.

When it comes to the Airport Police/Security....Just another thing that makes this confusing.

They are Post-certified...they can detain passengers and release them to police...some of them are actual police working a side job....and they don't work directly for United.

Are they a gov't agency or private entity?

 

[drop bear]

But these weren't cops. You guys keep mixing up general matters with the facts of this case.

Even if they are not cops. there is a difference between civil and criminal. the airport staff were addressing the criminal issue of tresspass not the civil issue of breach of contract.

So if you don't pay me. There is a long drawn out process where I will probably get screwed.

civil.

If I steal your stuff to compensate. I am in jail that day.

criminal.

 

[drop bear]

And I found this one which is quite fun.

The back story is the male police wanted to remove the females hijab. Which is of course quite the social fopaux

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

I believe you should defend yourself if anyone is trying to bully and beat on you. I believe that you should defend the honor and dignity of a defenseless person you witness being bullied or beaten on by someone else. The police are usually well-trained, well-equipped and work in teams, you have to be prepared to protect yourself at any moment, this includes during the arrest process, if your being taken in I suggest you cooperate but be ready for anything, if they are clearly attempting to harm you unjustly while you are doing nothing more than cooperating respectfully, of course have to protect yourself or be harmed possibly killed. That said if your going to do something it better be good, because your going to get shark attacked and if they can't control you physically they will keep escalating force, blinding you with mace or beating you with a club and when that fails they may shoot you or run you over so if your going to tangle with police you should understand they deal in the language of violence every day they are likely more experienced at it than you and they will all testify on each others behalf and you will be painted as the aggressor. It is like being surrounded by enemy Soldiers in a war, its all or nothing and the odds are it won't end well for you.

 

[Tez3]

mace or beating you with a club and when that fails they may shoot you or run you over so if your going to tangle with police you should understand they deal in the language of violence every day they are likely more experienced at it than you and they will all testify on each others behalf and you will be painted as the aggressor. It is like being surrounded by enemy Soldiers in a war, its all or nothing and the odds are it won't end well for you.

I'm not sure whether that says a lot about you or about the police you are used to. British police officers don't carry clubs, I doubt many police forces anywhere give their officers clubs. You are also unlikely to be shot by our officers. In the UK we have a well rehearsed procedure to control a violent person, it does take a few officers which non trained people find a waste of manpower but it's one that works with the minimum of violence and danger to everyone. You don't go in gungho beating people up, for one thing you don't know why the person is being violent, it may be something they have no control over.
'Being surrounded by enemy soldiers', good grief, that's ridiculous. what on earth have you been up to that you think this would ever be normal?

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

I'm not sure whether that says a lot about you or about the police you are used to. British police officers don't carry clubs, I doubt many police forces anywhere give their officers clubs. You are also unlikely to be shot by our officers. In the UK we have a well rehearsed procedure to control a violent person, it does take a few officers which non trained people find a waste of manpower but it's one that works with the minimum of violence and danger to everyone. You don't go in gungho beating people up, for one thing you don't know why the person is being violent, it may be something they have no control over.
'Being surrounded by enemy soldiers', good grief, that's ridiculous. what on earth have you been up to that you think this would ever be normal?

Well, lets just say that my experiences with law enforcement have been a mixed bag, I have traveled a lot and in many what you may consider 3rd world countries the Police are generally like a well-organized and well-equipped gang, territorial and on the take, very much into preying on the disarmed populous. I believe that you just never know with them, treat them like you would a big crocodile, very carefully, don't get to close to them unless you have to and if you have to get close to them, don't provoke them in any way, shape or form, even if it means swallowing your pride and humbling yourself to stroke their egos, do so because its not worth the trouble to get into a fight with them over ego.

 

[Tez3]

Well, lets just say that my experiences with law enforcement have been a mixed bag, I have traveled a lot and in many what you may consider 3rd world countries the Police are generally like a well-organized and well-equipped gang, territorial and on the take, very much into preying on the disarmed populous. I believe that you just never know with them, treat them like you would a big crocodile, very carefully, don't get to close to them unless you have to and if you have to get close to them, don't provoke them in any way, shape or form, even if it means swallowing your pride and humbling yourself to stroke their egos, do so because its not worth the trouble to get into a fight with them over ego.

Jumbling all police forces into the same basket and labelling them all the same is a big mistake. It's a clichés to label police as on the take because they aren't in your country, assuming that they are will get you into trouble. I don't think you can say what I consider a 'third world country' btw. I wouldn't consider the UK a third world country either.
A big thing to consider which many don't is that when you travel anywhere you should behave in a way that fits in with the local people and obey local laws not act as if you were at home. so many people think that because they are a 'foreigner' they can act as they wish, ignoring local customs and behaving in the local people's eyes badly. If you have to 'swallow your pride' I'd suggest you are probably one of these.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You have a point.

Its kinda like what Ron White said, "I didn't know how many it would take to whoop my a**, but I knew how many they would use."

And, as he says, "That's a useful piece of information."

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Jumbling all police forces into the same basket and labelling them all the same is a big mistake. It's a clichés to label police as on the take because they aren't in your country, assuming that they are will get you into trouble. I don't think you can say what I consider a 'third world country' btw. I wouldn't consider the UK a third world country either.
A big thing to consider which many don't is that when you travel anywhere you should behave in a way that fits in with the local people and obey local laws not act as if you were at home. so many people think that because they are a 'foreigner' they can act as they wish, ignoring local customs and behaving in the local people's eyes badly. If you have to 'swallow your pride' I'd suggest you are probably one of these.

Well, your making a bunch of incorrect assumptions about me and that is OK by sharing my opinion I have opened myself to your opinion of my opinion lol. I will stick to treating people who have the power to curtail my freedoms with the utmost caution, I will continue to advocate that people defend themselves from injustice when left with no other alternative but to let someone else injure or kill them. Have a blessed day!

 

[Tez3]

Well, your making a bunch of incorrect assumptions about me and that is OK by sharing my opinion I have opened myself to your opinion of my opinion lol. I will stick to treating people who have the power to curtail my freedoms with the utmost caution, I will continue to advocate that people defend themselves from injustice when left with no other alternative but to let someone else injure or kill them. Have a blessed day!

Actually I'm not making assumptions, I'm reading your posts and reading between the lines as any good police intelligence officer would. Your defensiveness is what attracts the attention of police officers who have years of experience in sussing out people with something to hide. In other words you look shifty to police officers because you are so much on the defensive. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, you think they are going to attack you so you look lairy to them so they check you out and if they are the sort of police to do this 'strongly' then you get hurt. I would suggest that if in Europe you don't adopt this stance.

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Actually I'm not making assumptions, I'm reading your posts and reading between the lines as any good police intelligence officer would. Your defensiveness is what attracts the attention of police officers who have years of experience in sussing out people with something to hide. In other words you look shifty to police officers because you are so much on the defensive. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, you think they are going to attack you so you look lairy to them so they check you out and if they are the sort of police to do this 'strongly' then you get hurt. I would suggest that if in Europe you don't adopt this stance.

Your not incorrect, if someone comes off as overly defensive when Law Enforcement is sniffing around that would be suspicious, that is why I said they are like a crocodile, best avoided and if that is not possible certainly not provoked, provoked can mean being so defensive that you behave like their typical prey. Again the subject (unless I misunderstood it) is how one should defend him or herself if they are being unjustly abused, my advice is to not take them lightly, just because one or two of them are acting like ignorant bullies does not mean that they are not combatively capable or at least capable of calling for back-up and then your contending with an army determined to stop you, willing to escalate force as they see fit, all willing to testify on each others behalf, to protect their "brother and sisters" so if your going to do it which I highly discourage, you best treat it like your surrounded by enemy Soldiers in a hostile territory because that is exactly whats going to happen if you manage to defeat them.

 

[Tez3]

Your not incorrect, if someone comes off as overly defensive when Law Enforcement is sniffing around that would be suspicious,

Well of course I'm correct, all my training and experience tells me so.

if they are being unjustly abused,

What is being abused justly then?


Instead of generalising and tarring all police forces with this brush please be specific and say which forces are likely to behave as you allege.

 

[Headhunter]

Well, your making a bunch of incorrect assumptions about me and that is OK by sharing my opinion I have opened myself to your opinion of my opinion lol. I will stick to treating people who have the power to curtail my freedoms with the utmost caution, I will continue to advocate that people defend themselves from injustice when left with no other alternative but to let someone else injure or kill them. Have a blessed day!

The only reason you should be cautious around law enforcement is if you're doing something stupid or something illegal

 

[drop bear]

The only reason you should be cautious around law enforcement is if you're doing something stupid or something illegal

Or if they are.

 

[Buka]

if only we knew someone who was an airport cop,

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Well of course I'm correct, all my training and experience tells me so.




What is being abused justly then?


Instead of generalising and tarring all police forces with this brush please be specific and say which forces are likely to behave as you allege.

Mam, can you please quote for me the parts of any of my statements where I generalized all police forces as being corrupt, abusive bullies. What I did was give general advice to a general question, if the question was more specific, like how do I defend myself from airport police if one of them is choking me with an extended asp at the Dallas airport and the other is kneeling on my ankles to keep my feet pinned, after I was handcuffed, I'd have been more specific after asking for further details. I appreciate that your coming to the defense of Law Enforcement everywhere like a cyber-superhero, making sure that we all know that not all Police let power go to their heads and so on, that does speak to what I was saying earlier about how people in the LE community will usually cover for each other no matter what and down play any wrong on their part, so this actually helps make my point but you have definitely made your point that we should be careful not to generalize 100% of the police in a given department as being corrupt and who knows maybe their are departments that have no corruption and also never, ever make any mistakes when dealing with the heat of the moment, I don't know of any but perhaps you do.

 

[Steve]

Sir, can you please quote for me the parts of any of my statements where I generalized all police forces as being corrupt, abusive bullies. What I did was give general advice to a general question, if the question was more specific, like how do I defend myself from airport police if one of them is choking me with an extended asp at the Dallas airport and the other is kneeling on my ankles to keep my feet pinned, after I was handcuffed, I'd have been more specific after asking for further details. I appreciate that your coming to the defense of Law Enforcement everywhere like a cyber-superhero, making sure that we all know that not all Police let power go to their heads and so on, that does speak to what I was saying earlier about how people in the LE community will usually cover for each other no matter what and down play any wrong on their part, so this actually helps make my point but you have definitely made your point that we should be careful not to generalize 100% of the police in a given department as being corrupt and who knows maybe their are departments that have no corruption and also never, ever make any mistakes when dealing with the heat of the moment, I don't know of any but perhaps you do.

Quick aside. Tez3 is a dame.

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Quick aside. Tez3 is a dame.

Thanks I adjusted, apologies for male assumption.