Does the advice people give kids being bullied to simply punch them in the face actually end it?

[Bill Mattocks]

I think you're just trouble, Bill.

There is very little doubt of that, my friend.

 

[Buka]

As with cb Jones, you guys are talking about two completely different groups of kids. Most kids do learn these things as you say. But the kids who bully and who are bullied are literally the kids who need some kind of assistance in the area. If it were as easy as you guys suggest, we would not have bullies or victims of bullies at all.

Ultimately, I agree that kids, in general, should be trusted to figure stuff out on their own. AND, that’s kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

I never said it was easy, Steve. Clear, but not easy.

 

[Buka]

Advantages to being bullied? Sure I guess there are but I think they are far outweighted by the negatives.

I agree with that statement one hundred percent. But I stand by what I said.

 

[Steve]

I never said it was easy, Steve. Clear, but not easy.

Okay. I'm not being direcr enough, I guess. I think you're wrong. Where a kid is bullied or is being a bully, leaving them to fend for themselves is at best irresponsible, and at worst, dangerous.

Where bullying isn't an issue, sure, I agree with you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Okay. I'm not being direcr enough, I guess. I think you're wrong. Where a kid is bullied or is being a bully, leaving them to fend for themselves is at best irresponsible, and at worst, dangerous.

Where bullying isn't an issue, sure, I agree with you.

While I tend to agree with the sentiment, I don't think it's a universal truth, Steve. I can't think of any way for an adult to have intervened in most of the bullying I experience, in a way that wouldn't have made it worse for me in the long run. By that, I'm not talking about the bullying getting worse, but that someone else solving it would have left me without the learning and confidence that came from having to deal with it...leaving me still in the same state (or worse?) and subject to continued bullying. Now, it's possible there was a way, but I don't see it.

 

[dvcochran]

I was never a badass fighter but did enjoy the fray in my youth. We grew up in a country setting where fighting was not a means to condemn or identify someone except in extreme instances. We fought for fun most the time; even most of our bar room fights had no malice in them and the fighters usually ended up having a drink with each other before the sun came up. I guess this is a big part of why I have a hard time identifying with most definitions of bullying. Abuse, absolutely. Physical and mental abuse are unquestionably real. It is hard to understand how in a modern society with so much to do and learn how people can get so narrowly focused on certain negatives. In every situation a person can choose to change their environment to disclude or at the least ignore someone. It is a choice, like most things in life.

 

[Chrisinmd]

I was never a badass fighter but did enjoy the fray in my youth. We grew up in a country setting where fighting was not a means to condemn or identify someone except in extreme instances. We fought for fun most the time; even most of our bar room fights had no malice in them and the fighters usually ended up having a drink with each other before the sun came up. I guess this is a big part of why I have a hard time identifying with most definitions of bullying. Abuse, absolutely. Physical and mental abuse are unquestionably real. It is hard to understand how in a modern society with so much to do and learn how people can get so narrowly focused on certain negatives. In every situation a person can choose to change their environment to disclude or at the least ignore someone. It is a choice, like most things in life.

What country did you grow up in? When you say you fought for fun was that true for the other person? You may have found it "fun" that dosent mean the other person seen it that way. What type of long term effects did it have on them? We will never know

 

[dvcochran]

As with cb Jones, you guys are talking about two completely different groups of kids. Most kids do learn these things as you say. But the kids who bully and who are bullied are literally the kids who need some kind of assistance in the area. If it were as easy as you guys suggest, we would not have bullies or victims of bullies at all.

Ultimately, I agree that kids, in general, should be trusted to figure stuff out on their own. AND, that’s kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

Repercussions for improper acts and punishment that fits the crime. I'll leave it there.

 

[dvcochran]

What country did you grow up in? When you say you fought for fun was that true for the other person? You may have found it "fun" that dosent mean the other person seen it that way. What type of long term effects did it have on them? We will never know

Middle TN. Like I said, most often those in the fight usually ended up having a drink by sun up. Sure there were times when two people just could not get along so they usually drifted into different circles and moved on with their life. That is my point; move on and find more. Choose to discover there is much more going on around you.
What part of the world are you in that makes this so impossible?

 

[Chrisinmd]

Middle TN. Like I said, most often those in the fight usually ended up having a drink by sun up. Sure there were times when two people just could not get along so they usually drifted into different circles and moved on with their life. That is my point; move on and find more. Choose to discover there is much more going on around you.
What part of the world are you in that makes this so impossible?

I grew up in Kansas so a pretty similar situation as you I would imagine. I don't think its impossible at all to have a drink after a fight and be civil to each other. I guess the difference im thinking of is between a one time fight and a longtime bullying situation. Sure you get in a one time fight over a woman or some bar fight over some random issue you can get beyond it and be best buddies I guess. But when someone is being abused so to speak not the case. Kind of like saying a woman who is get beaten buy her husband or child be abused should make amends with their abuser and just act like its all water under the bridge

 

[dvcochran]

I grew up in Kansas so a pretty similar situation as you I would imagine. I don't think its impossible at all to have a drink after a fight and be civil to each other. I guess the difference im thinking of is between a one time fight and a longtime bullying situation. Sure you get in a one time fight over a woman or some bar fight over some random issue you can get beyond it and be best buddies I guess. But when someone is being abused so to speak not the case. Kind of like saying a woman who is get beaten buy her husband or child be abused should make amends with their abuser and just act like its all water under the bridge

Agree, but you are making my point. Are we talking about abuse or bullying? If the latter I get that it is harder for certain personalities to get along. From my experience exposure is one of the best ways to learn how to resolve or at least handle (co-exist?) conflict, or anything for that matter. If you are including abuse into the conversation, the discussion has to go a very different direction. Like I said earlier, let the punishment fit the crime. I do not what I consider bullying a crime.

 

[Steve]

While I tend to agree with the sentiment, I don't think it's a universal truth, Steve. I can't think of any way for an adult to have intervened in most of the bullying I experience, in a way that wouldn't have made it worse for me in the long run. By that, I'm not talking about the bullying getting worse, but that someone else solving it would have left me without the learning and confidence that came from having to deal with it...leaving me still in the same state (or worse?) and subject to continued bullying. Now, it's possible there was a way, but I don't see it.

I agree that it is possible. I think you're projecting a lot onto my post that isbt there. But yeah, in simple term, where kids dont have the natural aptitude to avoid being a victim or victimizing others, leaving them to just figure it out is pretty irresponsible.

Now, to be clear, there are things adults do that help and things that don't help. Suggesting that adults can't help is ignorant.

 

[Steve]

Repercussions for improper acts and punishment that fits the crime. I'll leave it there.

totally fine if you want to leave it there, but I really don't know what you mean.

 

[Chrisinmd]

Agree, but you are making my point. Are we talking about abuse or bullying? If the latter I get that it is harder for certain personalities to get along. From my experience exposure is one of the best ways to learn how to resolve or at least handle (co-exist?) conflict, or anything for that matter. If you are including abuse into the conversation, the discussion has to go a very different direction. Like I said earlier, let the punishment fit the crime. I do not what I consider bullying a crime.

Where does bullying turn into abuse? I think that is a very fine line to walk. If a 250 ibs husband beats the **** out of his 120 ibs wife everyday its abuse. If a 250 ibs who plays O line on the football team beats the **** out of the 120 science nerd or band geek so to speak its just bullying? I guess I consider bullying to be verbal such as calling names which I would agree is not a crime. When it gets physical that's abuse and that is a crime.

Agree with you completely that exposure therapy is one of the best ways to learn how to resolve issues or deal with your fears.

 

[dvcochran]

Where does bullying turn into abuse? I think that is a very fine line to walk. If a 250 ibs husband beats the **** out of his 120 ibs wife everyday its abuse. If a 250 ibs who plays O line on the football team beats the **** out of the 120 science nerd or band geek so to speak its just bullying? I guess I consider bullying to be verbal such as calling names which I would agree is not a crime. When it gets physical that's abuse and that is a crime.

Agree with you completely that exposure therapy is one of the best ways to learn how to resolve issues or deal with your fears.

Some laws are written with so much built in subjectivity it is easy to understand why we see differences in judges decisions. Your first example implies a felony case but again we are back to at the very least semantics. What constitutes beating the *** out of someone? It that a black eye? Or is that putting someone on the ground and pummeling them? I agree verbal abuse can get in some peoples head and be a problem. I don't know how you quantify it though since our country has such broad range of vernacular. For example saying dumb*** is a common address to some and offensive to others. I am offended by how "loose" some slang language in our country has gotten. Do I consider it verbal abuse when I hear it, or even when it is addressed at me? No, but I may have a rebuttal. There is so much unfiltered, or more correctly expressed writing without a physical attachment, on social media I have to remind myself of this fact when reading some peoples knee-jerk comments. I believe social interaction was much more taught or learned through everyday life a generation or two prior. Social skills are not being taught or sadly sometimes never learned. The awkward years of a tweener or teenager should have great value in learning these skills provided a person gets out and expands their surroundings and exposure to people of different circles.

 

[Danny T]

Part of the problem with what is perceived as bullying today can simply be school yard teasing.
I've got kids and parents who come in telling me the child is being bullied and after a conversation with the child it is often just some teasing. Can that if continued as taunting become bullying, yes. However, kids need to learn how to deal with such.

 

[Steve]

Part of the problem with what is perceived as bullying today can simply be school yard teasing.
I've got kids and parents who come in telling me the child is being bullied and after a conversation with the child it is often just some teasing. Can that if continued as taunting become bullying, yes. However, kids need to learn how to deal with such.

Does anyone here think that a kid could learn tkd or BJJ by themselves? What about math or history? Or baseball or to play the violin? I don't think so. Why, then, do we think kids can just figure this out? Adults have a role to play, whether that is modelling behaviors, being a good coach, or something else. Sometimes, adults need to be more directly involved.

And like everything else, kids need to do it themselves to build skills. But this lord of the flies mentality is downright medieval .

 

[Martial D]

Does the advice people give kids being bullied to simply punch them in the face actually end it? I know from some fights I have seen for example was the first job I worked at. I remember one fight the guy being bullied punched the guy in the face and the other guy responded and beat him pretty good punching him and bloodying him up pretty good. I don't remember people stopping screwing with you simply because he fought back and threw a punch. I don't think this myth that you simply fight back and then you earn respect and become best buddies after words is reality from what I have seen.

Another example was we had a mentally disabled guy that also worked their that people liked to screw with. He would go off verbally on them, get in their face and start screaming at them. So I know at least he stood up for himself verbally although I never personally seem him get physical. But I don't remember that ending the bullying either.

So the advice that you simply have to fight back to end bullying seems not to be the case to me. Seems like you have to win. Thoughts?

In my opinion if someone wants to kick your ****, they're not going to be nice about it. The idea that fights are some sort of gentleman's game, where two people face off and fight fair and square, seems like a bit of Hollywood mythology to me. None of my fights I have seen were like that.

In my experience most of the fights that happened due to me feeling I needed to stand up for myself(mostly in my youth) ended with new, years long close friends or at least a mutual sense of respect.

 

[mrt2]

In my experience most of the fights that happened due to me feeling I needed to stand up for myself(mostly in my youth) ended with new, years long close friends or at least a mutual sense of respect.

That was not my experience at all. The best I can say about fighting was, it was sometimes necessary. But anyone I had to fight with was not someone I ever wanted to be friends with.

The closest I ever had to fighting with one of my friends was, a friend of mine threw something at me once during an argument, and once when one of my friends was goofing around making fun of my martial arts skills, and walked right into my front kick. I was going to pull the kick back but because he walked right into the kick, I dropped him. He never made fun of my martial arts skills after that. But those weren't really fights.

 

[Chrisinmd]

Your first example implies a felony case but again we are back to at the very least semantics. What constitutes beating the *** out of someone? It that a black eye? Or is that putting someone on the ground and pummeling them? I agree verbal abuse can get in some peoples head and be a problem.

Sure I guess in my example the husband beating the crap out of woman and putting her would be the felony situation your talking about. Probaly giving her a black eye would be more of a misdeamnor domestic violence situation. Verbal abuse I think depends a lot on the situation as well. A classmate calling you fat or gay something like that I would not consider really bullying. But your parents verbally abusing you and calling you worthless and you should just kill yourself would be abuse. Verbal abuse can be very damaging to a person even if nothing physical