Does revoking rank mean anything?

[BrandiJo]

well again im new but i think if i got my rank revoked it wouldnt mean anything except that i messed up and lost the respect of my instructor and orgnxzation and to me thats a big deal cus i worked hard to prove myself and them saying that im not acting or holding up my end of it would really hurt and make me re consider what ever it is that i did

 

[MichiganTKD]

Revoking rank, it is acknowleged. does not mean revoking skills. Once learned, martial arts skills can not be taken away.
However, revoking rank or cutting someone from an organization means they no longer have the authorization to teach from an accredited Instructor or Organization. You can physically teach, but you cannot use my name, I will not recommend you to test again, and I will not judge for you. You are basically on your own.
Unless you acquire students who only care about physical technique, you really lose any semblance of legitimacy because you cannot use your Instructor as a reference and you cannot claim organization credentials.
If you want to teach, students will invariably ask who your Instructor is, because no school exists in a vacuum. Every Instructor is in some way linked to other schools, whether by mutual Association, Instructors, or whatever. It is what helps schools to succeed. By revoking someone's rank, even if you cannot revoke ability, you cut off this synergistic process. Physically you can still teach, but you have no support system.
And no legitimate Instructor would support a black belt who has been cut or had their rank revoked, although many low class ones would accept any students who wanted to join them. A high class Instructor would tell such a black belt "You must work this out with your Instructor. I will not accept you just because your Instructor cut you or revoked your rank."
An internet search will turn up MANY Instructors who will accept any students regardless of rank, style, or circumstances.

 

[loki09789]

Revoking rank, it is acknowleged. does not mean revoking skills. Once learned, martial arts skills can not be taken away.
However, revoking rank or cutting someone from an organization means they no longer have the authorization to teach from an accredited Instructor or Organization. You can physically teach, but you cannot use my name, I will not recommend you to test again, and I will not judge for you. You are basically on your own.
Unless you acquire students who only care about physical technique, you really lose any semblance of legitimacy because you cannot use your Instructor as a reference and you cannot claim organization credentials.
If you want to teach, students will invariably ask who your Instructor is, because no school exists in a vacuum. Every Instructor is in some way linked to other schools, whether by mutual Association, Instructors, or whatever. It is what helps schools to succeed. By revoking someone's rank, even if you cannot revoke ability, you cut off this synergistic process. Physically you can still teach, but you have no support system.
And no legitimate Instructor would support a black belt who has been cut or had their rank revoked, although many low class ones would accept any students who wanted to join them. A high class Instructor would tell such a black belt "You must work this out with your Instructor. I will not accept you just because your Instructor cut you or revoked your rank."
An internet search will turn up MANY Instructors who will accept any students regardless of rank, style, or circumstances.

I have seen many a successful (financially) 'independent' instructors who either broke or were 'revoked.' "revoking" or kicking out someone is a gesture of 'dishonor' on the individual (or at least that is what it means if the gesture is done morally and ethically) and protects the organization/instructor from "collateral liability" because there is no longer an active association.

It will not protect you if "Instructor X" is teaching the same curriculum, ends up with Johnny no belt as as student who goes out and breaks someone up and he/she decides to sue Johnny, the instructor for teaching him so irresponsibly and you as the instructor's instructor....

There are some seriously deranged folks out there who will go after everyone they can because they are petty, hurt or greedy.

Is it right? No way. Can/does it happen? Yup, look at the cases going after the gun manufacturers, sales. Or, the cases where a waiter/bar is getting sued because someone was too stupid to call a cab and gets behind the wheel.

 

[MichiganTKD]

A year or so ago, one of our Senior Instructors had a former student who decided he wanted to teach his own Tae Kwon Do class. Never mind that his (former) Instructor had already refused permission. Our Grandmaster had decided to brush it off by saying that future students of this man would quickly realize his incompetence. In other words, let him teach-his class will fold anyway.
I had to tell our grandmaster that even if permission to teach were refused, the fact that the student was using the Grandmaster's name as part of his class meant that, in the event of an inevitable accident, students would sue the Grandmaster anyway. It didn't matter that he was not supposed to teach. Our organization would still get sued.
Our Grandmaster ended up having a legal cease-and-desist order drawn up to close the school down.
Which goes to show: You can revoke someone's rank or even cut them from your organization, but you still must take steps to ensure they are not using your name to teach. Something many people might not think about.