Discussion about Religious Beliefs

[crushing]

Well, the issue here is why believe humans are so special?? What basis is there for this notion??

Time-binding

Today I was just reading a speech given by Robert Heinlein on 7/4/41 and he thought that pretty much time-binding was the only thing that really differentiated humans from the other animals. Personally, I'm not so sure that is the only thing, I'm just putting it out there.

We keep a record of our past, and plan for the future. Heinlein didn't come right out and say this, but I got the feeling that he thought the more mature humans were even able to learn from the past and apply it to in the planning for the future and then proceeded to give huge kudos to H.G. Wells.

Anyway, now it seems to me that without time-binding, you really couldn't develop a religion. So many religious beliefs are based on what was thought to have happened in the past and using that information to secure a better future/eternity.

Now back to your question. Based on this, it's our specialness, that gives us the ability to create a belief system that allows us to believe that we are special.

 

[heretic888]

To me, faith isn't static.

James Fowler's Faith Development Theory

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

James Fowler's Faith Development Theory

But, that thread begins by describing a progression of faith perceptions that people my grow through. Not static at all.

 

[Tez3]

I had to laugh when I read this bit of Heretic's post quote Pilate never had any "Jesus of Nazareth" relucantly crucified unquote. I don't think anyone fictional or real has ever been willingly crucified. Sorry, it's just the way it read, I got Monty Python visions for a few minutes.

 

[heretic888]

But, that thread begins by describing a progression of faith perceptions that people my grow through. Not static at all.

I know. I was agreeing with Carol.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

oh...my duh

sorry

 

[Zida'sukara]

This is difficult to write for me and make it understandable the way I would like it to be.

I believe like Shaderon that we are part of a total concept and that our souls are learning from every earth life it has. No soul can learn everything in one human life.

I believe in positive and negative energie. By being positive to everything around you, you will recieve positivity back.(what you send forth, comes back to thee) Perhaps not at once but at least your soul will not be bothered and closed with negativity from itself so his channels remain open for further (universal)energy flow.

At present, I do not have any religion. After a lot of researches myself, I cannot commit myself to one religion. I try to be a good human being and I believe in faith, love and ultimate truth. I think I am a bit of a mixture from Buddhism and Wicca. I learned that Wicca does have a lot in common with Buddhism but it is more touchable, you learn a lot about nature, nature healings and your role in it and it teaches you to keep your mind open for every human being, doesnt matter which religion it has.
One thing from Wicca, where I cannot commit myself to, is their worshipping of Gods and Goddesses and their rituals, I believe that your soul itself is capable of doing that what he needs and protecting himself. We only have to learn how. For some people it helps to achieve this to pray to a God and for other people it helps to do a ritual but infact it is the persons strength itself who is doing it with his true believe, doesnt matter in what.

I like reading and learning about different religions and how they came to life. Their rituals or the prayings. I love to go to graveyards to taste the peacefull atmosphere or go to different churches to see all the happy people. I time I went to a Gregorian Church in Austria. I didnt understand one word but the priest was singing for more than 1 hour and it was so beautifull even now I an getting cold when I think of it.

So, to come to the point, I think that every religion matters for the person itself in his present life, as it will bring him on a path that he or she needs to take to grow. Everybody needs to find his or her own way and a religion can give security and strenght, by believing in it, to go further on their paths of life.

Well this is what I believe and think, hope that I wrote it a bit understandable. It took me 1 hour to post this.

Barbara

 

[heretic888]

I had to laugh when I read this bit of Heretic's post quote Pilate never had any "Jesus of Nazareth" relucantly crucified unquote. I don't think anyone fictional or real has ever been willingly crucified. Sorry, it's just the way it read, I got Monty Python visions for a few minutes.

Tez, the point I was trying to make was the way that Pontius Pilate is depicted in the gospels is thoroughly un-historical. He is painted as calm, reasonable, conciliatory, and genuinely benevolent; he doesn't want to be involved with this whole let's-crucify-Jesus business at all. In reality, of course, Pilate had a reputation as a bloodthirsty and viscious ruler, widely despised by the Jewish people.

Now, of course, the reason for this is to cast 100% of the blame on the Jews (which becomes far more evident in the later pro-Rome Gospel of Luke). That simply points to the fact that the gospel authors were writing at a time when "Jew" and "Christian" were two clearly delineated groups (i.e., Christians had been expelled from the synagogues), placing them no early than 90 CE.

Anyone who thinks the gospel stories aren't neck-deep in the politics of the day are, quite frankly, deluding themselves.

 

[CoryKS]

Interesting article on CNN.com today: Are humans hard-wired for faith?

 

[Tez3]

Tez, the point I was trying to make was the way that Pontius Pilate is depicted in the gospels is thoroughly un-historical. He is painted as calm, reasonable, conciliatory, and genuinely benevolent; he doesn't want to be involved with this whole let's-crucify-Jesus business at all. In reality, of course, Pilate had a reputation as a bloodthirsty and viscious ruler, widely despised by the Jewish people.

Now, of course, the reason for this is to cast 100% of the blame on the Jews (which becomes far more evident in the later pro-Rome Gospel of Luke). That simply points to the fact that the gospel authors were writing at a time when "Jew" and "Christian" were two clearly delineated groups (i.e., Christians had been expelled from the synagogues), placing them no early than 90 CE.

Anyone who thinks the gospel stories aren't neck-deep in the politics of the day are, quite frankly, deluding themselves.

Oh dear me and my passion for correct English! my point wasn't on faith etc it was on correct English. The way it was written made it sound as if Pilate only crucified willing parties hence the Python moment. My apologies.

 

[heretic888]

Oh dear me and my passion for correct English! my point wasn't on faith etc it was on correct English. The way it was written made it sound as if Pilate only crucified willing parties hence the Python moment. My apologies.

No worries. Just trying to make myself clearly understood.

 

[heretic888]

Interesting article on CNN.com today: Are humans hard-wired for faith?

Ah, yes.... neurotheology.

 

[Ray]

In reality, of course, Pilate had a reputation as a bloodthirsty and viscious ruler, widely despised by the Jewish people.

What we enlightened people today see as bloodthirsty and viscious was the way the Romans maintained their rule of others. The Jews dispised foreign rulers, as do/did most occupied peoples.

By way of information: I believe in a God who is the Father of our spirits. And that Jesus Christ was born, lived, died and was resurrected. I try to be a follower of Christ. This time of year especially brings to mind the rememberance of his sacrifice and victory over death.

 

[heretic888]

What we enlightened people today see as bloodthirsty and viscious was the way the Romans maintained their rule of others. The Jews dispised foreign rulers, as do/did most occupied peoples.

Actually, Pontius Pilate was recalled to Rome shortly after a series of arrests and executions around 36 CE. He never returned to Judea afterward. As I stated before, the way that Pilate is depicted in the gospels is both absurdly non-historical (especially the amusing attempt to pass him off as some kind of philosopher-king) and intended to criticize the Jews. Its politics, plain and simple.

 

[Ray]

Actually, Pontius Pilate was recalled to Rome shortly after a series of arrests and executions around 36 CE. He never returned to Judea afterward. As I stated before, the way that Pilate is depicted in the gospels is both absurdly non-historical (especially the amusing attempt to pass him off as some kind of philosopher-king) and intended to criticize the Jews. Its politics, plain and simple.

I have no disagreement that Rome was "in control" and quick to make examples of entire populations.

The amount of reference to Pilate in the bible is small and certainly can't be used to reconstruct a good portrayal of the man. There is insufficient information to pass him off as a philosopher-king. Yet he was a man who lived in superstitious times and was probably as prone to taking his superstitions into account as the average man would.

I also do not believe that the biblical account suffices to blame "the Jews" for Jesus' death. I do not read it as an attempt to place blame---however there have been many people who put their own spin on it (as well as everything else).

 

[heretic888]

Sorry, double post.

 

[heretic888]

The amount of reference to Pilate in the bible is small and certainly can't be used to reconstruct a good portrayal of the man. There is insufficient information to pass him off as a philosopher-king. Yet he was a man who lived in superstitious times and was probably as prone to taking his superstitions into account as the average man would.

This has nothing to do with "superstitions". When Pilate meets Jesus in the gospel accounts, he is painted as a Socratic philosopher and start questioning Jesus about the nature of "truth". To a historian, the whole scene is absurd. However, Pilate's character does serve as a useful literary foil to "the Jews" that demand for blood.

I also do not believe that the biblical account suffices to blame "the Jews" for Jesus' death. I do not read it as an attempt to place blame---however there have been many people who put their own spin on it (as well as everything else).

Your reluctance to see the politics of the day in the gospel accounts does not change the fact that they are there, all the same. In the gospel story, the Jewish Sanhedrin are the ones that accuse Jesus of his "crimes", spirit him away during the middle of Passover night (which by itself is historically ridiculous), and bring him to Pilate for execution (because they lack the legal power to do so themselves). When Pilate refuses to execute the man, he asks a conveniently nearby "Jewish mob" what he should do, and their reply is to crucify Jesus instead of a convicted killer. This was, apparently, in keeping with the non-existent Jewish tradition of releasing a criminal on Passover (yeah, I know). The story was written at a time when there open animosity and antagonism between the "Jews" and the "Christians" (i.e., when Christians were publicly expelled from synagogues), sometime between 90 and 100 CE. This portrayal has a double mission of painting the Christian religion as conciliatory and passive toward Roman rule, as evidenced by the fact that the Roman representative is painted as benevolent and unwilling to crucify Jesus.
Like I said, politics.

 

[Tez3]

Zida'sukara, while not everyone will agree with your views I think everyone will agree they were well put and very understandable.

 

[Ray]

... To a historian, the whole scene is absurd.
...
Your reluctance to see the politics of the day in the gospel accounts does not change the fact that they are there, all the same. ...

Thank you for proving the point, as I said some people put their own personal spin on everything.

 

[heretic888]

Thank you for proving the point, as I said some people put their own personal spin on everything.

I see.

Sociohistorical context is "personal spin". Thank you for elucidating your position so clearly.