Minor venting session

[Andy Moynihan]

Andy I can understand that certainly. I do think that you handled it perhaps as best as you were able to even if you did so in a childish manner. Do you do the same with all that are disrespectful of your wishes or all that have attitudes that you do not appreciate?

I usually do, although more recently I have tried to more selectively limit the occasions on which I use profanity.( Put it this way, I do it rarely enough now that when I ever *do* swear, people *know* that they should Stop Doing whatever put me to that point because its now rare enough they know the difference).

Perhaps it was on the childish side, but then, you keep a person in an unreasonable position long enough, eventually you will see less than reasonable reactions.

Some people have more tolerance for certain kinds of people( such as loud people, obnoxious people/people of certain beliefs or what-have-you) or for certain kinds of situations( such as those where alcohol and /or drugs might be present, large groups of people or what-have-you). And some will have more than others.

Even from the beginning I have never been what I guess nowadays would be called a "people person", and 4 years straight working with customers when younger burned much of my remaining patience with people out and I never got it back( this has changed to a *small* degree since I began training again).

I'm not there to be anyone's "friend". I'm there to show up for work, do my job, and go home. That doesn't mean I'll automatically be rude, or even unpleasant with people who do talk to me, but I am paid to work and not to socialize. Some people like to socialize and are boisterous and happy conversationalists just to make conversation and enjoy it. But I have never been one of those.

I have had coworkers express interest in shooting/firearms on rare occasions and when asked , Then, and ONLY then do I provide what info I can. And that's as far as it should go.

Me going loopy and preaching that every last person should be armed, and the company should change its policy because my point of view should be followed? That is most DEFINITELY a "not-do".

Same with this.

I try never to make things confrontational until it becomes obvious nothing else will work. It isn't that I have a fear of saying something, it's that i find such interaction distasteful.

In point of fact, apart from the handful of people who do actually earn my friendship, I find nearly ALL human interaction distasteful. That doesn't mean I don't or can't do it,I wouldn't get very far without getting gas or grocery shopping but i prefer, when I can, to limit it to what must be done and no more with the exception noted above.

I am ready to admit that I am wrong in this Andy, I was not there and you are, just my opinion based on what you wrote and my thinking how I would react if I were placed in either of the three positions ( you, her and a witness to the confrontations). A year and half friendly working relationship seems like it might be a shame to lose that just because poor communication skills and styles. Seems a waste to me.

There were no witnesses (I was looking).

Well, here it is 2 days later and there has been no more trouble. We have exchanged occasional "good mornings" and hellos once or twice in the day. I can cope with that. If the situation remains that way, that will be the end of it.

That you are considering having her hauled into the bosses office and perhaps fired especially these days where I am told jobs are hard to come by, seems overkill and petty to me. :idunno:

Again, if the situation remains resolved, that will be the end of it. I as a general rule don't do grudges, They're just additional stress I don't need.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I agree. This doesn't sound like Andy heard the word 'god' and then flipped out on the lady.

Exactly.

 

[KELLYG]

Like you Andy I have worked directly with the public for many years and can feel ya on that one.

I was not insinuating that she said GOD and you flipped out the point was that if any line of conversation was distasteful to you for what ever reason and the person kept trying to push it one you, they are being being rude and disrespectful. After several attempts at stating to stop the discussion you resulted to being direct and curt. If a line of conversation was directed at me and I attempted on one , or two occasions tried to re-direct or inform that this is not a subject that I wanted to talk about I probably would do the same, regardless of the subject matter.

 

[Brian King]

Andy
Thank you for the gracious reply to my post. I owe you a bit of an apology and a thank you as I was getting ready to judge you and your behavior with this lady when you wrote

“more tolerance for certain kinds of people( such as loud people, obnoxious people/people of certain beliefs or what-have-you) or for certain kinds of situations( such as those where alcohol and /or drugs might be present,”

Gah, my short fuse avoid situation if at all possible is the drug use one. I hate that and all my friends and associates know that to bring drugs around me means that you may be held for the police and arrested and I do not care who you are. Forced me to reflect on how I handle those situations. I can be a bit of a hypocrite at times. I try to recognize those times and make the necessary positive adjustments.

When people post rants such as yours Andy I try to read with the understanding that not always are they really asking or saying what they mean. In some cases they are seeking the ‘right on dude, you showed them' type of reply, I do not spend much time reading those threads and even less time responding to them. Some write their posts out of the need to vent from sheer frustration and not knowing another way of cleansing their spirit they write to release their frustrations in a post. Again I do not spend much time reading or responding to these kinds of threads. Others rant from anonymity not having the courage to voice their opinions face to face with others and rather dump their baggage onto the net. Again I do not bother to read or respond to those threads. There are others that post after some kind of stressful situation and I think they are posting to ask the question…was I right, are they out of line etc. Even if they do not believe they were in the wrong there is enough of a doubt perhaps even subconsciously that their conscious forces them to seek a third party opinion. You wrote “There were no witnesses (I was looking).” Which I think confirms my suspicion that you are wondering if you did right by your own standards. I think this thread falls into this questioning/reflective category and my own belief that you are a good man lead me to reply above and to further reply now. I hope that you can read this as constructive criticism and with the heart that it is being written.

Here is the language you used that set off my thinking in the direction that it went Andy

1. “I have tried very hard, over these few weeks to diplomatically get the message across”

2. “There could be no mistaking how I felt.”

3. “You know I even tried humor—“

4. “it was this person's diisrespectful, preaching attitude after having been notified repeatedly I didn't appreciate it. “

5. “This is the wrong subject to talk about with me, I'm sorry" to which she replied “I guess it is”

My thoughts to your words above.

1. As a diplomat Andy you obviously suck. No big deal really it is a large club (the ‘I am trying to be tactful you idiot!’ Club) and in my opinion over rated and one that I have belonged to for years. It is far better to attempt to be a statesman in my opinion rather than diplomatic. Trying to be diplomatic has gotten many people into trouble where clear concise use of language has cleared the table of many an issue.

2. Not true at all as obviously she did not understand how you feel or how you would react. Part of effective communication is making sure that all parties are hearing the same message. This is one of the reasons in the military while under stress verbal orders are repeated back after being issued.

3. Again with the passive beating around the bush tactics. It might work and perhaps should be tried but one should not expect it to work and should not be annoyed when it fails

4. Was it really the attitude or was it the message that you were hearing.

5. FINALLY clear concise message given and apparently heard. O hope that she heard “subject” and not book or evolution Vs creation otherwise she may still talk to you about other “subjects” that you may find annoying. Be prepared to calmly and in an even voice (without vulgarity LOL) state clearly that you do not wish to discuss religious topics with her. Tell her that you value her friendship and hope that she will respect the boundary that you establishing. I you are feeling gracious you can also say something along the lines that you will be seeing her at work and will notice both the positive and the negative changes in her attitude and behavior and should I (Andy) ever wish to discuss religion that you are hoping she would be willing to discuss it with you but only IF and when you start the dialog

#1-4 are passive/aggressive means of avoiding confrontation or uncomfortable circumstances while sometimes effective yet hardly ever a healthy and growing way to deal with situations. #5 was much more clearly stated and so was naturally much more effective.

Two more things I wish to bring up for our conversation…I hope that you do not mind.

When we let people anger us with their use of words/language/attitude/style we give them power. It bears repeating… We give them power. We chose to let them affect our emotional well being, we chose to let them ‘pick the battlefield’. Here is an example of what I am saying, if your mother says to you “Andy, you are a worthless piece of trash and always will be.” Now that is a hurtful statement that would cause you pain and perhaps seek some reflection and questioning of your life, naturally. Now if you are out on a date with a beautiful lady and while getting out of your car in front of the restaurant a street bum, a guy that hasn’t had a bath in two weeks, so drunk and stoned out on drugs that he can barely sit up let along walk, this guy growls to you “Hey buddy - you are a worthless piece of trash and always will be” Is that statement just as hurtful? Would it cause you to do any reflection or searching to see if there is any truth to the statement? Of course not. The same words and perhaps sent in the same style with the same intent can have different effects on us and it is our choice how we let it effect us. In relation to this post if a five year old child asked if you go to church would you get angry at the child? If not why chose to let the lady in question have more power over you than a five year old? It is your choice and for myself I often reflect on what choices I make and what benefit I received from making them. It is not easy or always pretty.

The other thing Andy is that as armed citizens it is prudent to look at our actions as if from the future. If God forbid tonight Andy you had to use your skills with firearm and had to kill some guy. The police and the reporters may be talking to those that know you. How has he been behaving lately? Does he seem violent to you? Has he been in confrontations in the past? Does he have enemies? When put into this situation Andy your friends and acquaintances may well be looking back and wondering if they were seeing the real you, are you Andy or are you some kind of violent bloodthirsty Andy? If the reporters asked the lady at work about you I wonder what she would say. If it would go to court would she be on your side or would her testimony be that “he seemed jumpy and irritable like he was under some kind of strain and he has been easy to anger even using foul language, why I thought that he might even attack me right then and there, the way he was looking around to see if we were alone or not. I was so scared that I left and did not even finish my lunch.”

As warriors especially armed warriors that may haveand are willing to use lethal force it is in my opinion that we always maintain a professional calm comportment no matter what the situation.

LOL one final thing in a too long post. Good work on limiting the use of profanity. The use of foul language limits our minds. We risk becoming lazy and rather than increasing our vocabulary to find the correct terms to use for the situation we can easily tend to rely on the close enough fall back of the cuss word.


Regards
Brian King

 

[Dagney Taggert]

Go in to work and tell her you have just changed your name to Beezlebub.

Then start speaking in tongues. When you pass by a reflective surface, writhe in pain. Start wearing sunglasses indoors. Put tomato juice in a beaker and drink it in front of her.

Everyone on this thread is so rational. It's time for heavy artillery!

 

[Steve]

I wonder if I alone find it ironicly amusing and sad that you work at a place that profanity is tolerated (prolific) from the floor up to the bosses but somebody speaking the name of God raises a fuss. Shows the power of a word I guess.

Brian King

Both are unprofessional.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Go in to work and tell her you have just changed your name to Beezlebub.

Then start speaking in tongues. When you pass by a reflective surface, writhe in pain. Start wearing sunglasses indoors. Put tomato juice in a beaker and drink it in front of her.

Everyone on this thread is so rational. It's time for heavy artillery!

No, it's time for this thread to die now because the situation was over 3 days ago.

 

[jks9199]

But that'd be no fun!

Go into work each day next week with something different from this list (add to it as your fancy trips): the the Book of Mormon, the Watchtower, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Necronomicon, the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, printouts about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, something from H.P. Lovecraft, a map of the Street of the Gods, some grimoire, the Book of Judas...

Or just a collection of Japanese manga and anime, then maybe Babylon 5, Star Wars, Star Trek... whatever you feel you can do the best fanboy riff on.

Or bring in a series of role playing games, like Dungeons & Dragons... and invite her to play! :EG:

 

[Dagney Taggert]

Oh! I got it! Anne Rice! Even better, Anne Rice as Anne Roquelore! Wicked!

 

[Kacey]

I haven't posted in a while, and I admit that I skimmed this thread rather than read it carefully. That said, here's my viewpoint: as a member of a minority religion (I'm Jewish), a significant number of people have attempted to convert me, out of (they say) fear for my immortal soul (if they believe I have one). Some have been involved in their religion their whole lives; others have come to it more recently. My answer to all is the same: "I'm glad you found something that works for you. What works for me is different. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but I am not interested in changing beliefs." Most people will stop at that point; those few who do not often do not understand polite attempts to end the conversation, and, in extreme cases, I will simply excuse myself every time the conversation turns to that topic. Eventually, the topic ceases to be raised.

 

[Cryozombie]

I think Andy needs to quit being so Anti-Christian and just convert already.

DO IT ANDY!

 

[Stac3y]

I'll quote as always from a Rabbi, this one is Rabbi Moshe Leib.

"...if someone comes to you and asks your help, you shall not turn him off with pious words, saying 'Have faith and take your troubles to G-d' . You shall act as if there were no G-d, as if there were only one person in all the world who could help this man -only yourself'

Your beliefs or non beliefs are yours and none of our business but you are a fellow man to whom respect and help if needed, is to be given, freely and willingly with no strings attached.

That. Is. Beautiful.