Different WCK body power generation mechanics

[Vajramusti]

There are many degrees or levels of WCK body mechanics and ways to generate power. In my opinion some WCK body mechanics and ways to generate power are more powerful and effective than others. For example, using one's core muscles to torque at their waist by pivoting on the K1 is much more powerful and efficient than using local muscles by pivoting on the heels. While internal snake body power generation is more advanced than the previous two methods.


These can be categorized into 3 basic different types.

1. Rack type (structure, good Yip Man guys such as TST and WSL)
2. Body type (like swinging a baseball bat ie. Alan Orr)
3. Force flow line type (snake body coil spring ie. Hendrik Santo)

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Gross over simplifications of options IMO.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Gross over simplifications of options IMO.

Joy, you've met and touched hands with Hendrik, how would you discribe what his hands felt like?

Also from your perception, how would you discribe the mechanics which Hendrik uses compare to what you were shown in Master Ho's linage?

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy, you've met and touched hands with Hendrik, how would you discribe what his hands felt like?

Also from your perception, how would you discribe the mechanics which Hendrik uses compare to what you were shown in Master Ho's linage?

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Navin, my intention is not to put down Hendrik. I visited with him years ago at his house when I had gone to San Jose for a friendship get together.
He was a gracious and kind host and he may have picked up more skils since then.I was not impressed with his defense s.

What I was shown in Master Ho's lineage?? I am in the Ho/Fong lineage and sifu Fong has progressed himself over time. There is no comparison between
what I do and what Hendrik does.

 

[kung fu fighter]

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Navin, my intention is not to put down Hendrik. I visited with him years ago at his house when I had gone to San Jose for a friendship get together.
He was a gracious and kind host and he may have picked up more skils since then.I was not impressed with his defense s.

What I was shown in Master Ho's lineage?? I am in the Ho/Fong lineage and sifu Fong has progressed himself over time. There is no comparison between
what I do and what Hendrik does.

Joy, from what I understand you don't know the snake engine because Hendrik never showed it to you when you visited him. Which would make sense because when I touched hands with Master Ho's last batch of deciples here in Canada whom got his most refined version of his teachings. I was not overly impressed either, the most senior one I could control and hit at will in chi sao, The second one trained with master Ho privately for many years had good elbow force. But over all none of them were any comparrison to Hendrik's skill level. So I understand your perspective.

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy, from what I understand you don't know the snake engine because Hendrik never showed it to you when you visited him.
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Interesting conclusion. :-

I will pass on the chest beating.

 

[wtxs]

Joy, from what I understand you don't know the snake engine because Hendrik never showed it to you when you visited him.
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Interesting conclusion. :-

I will pass on the chest beating.

... and don't forget hero worship. Power generation is nothing more than proper and efficient use of body mechanics, most people with that skill chose to remain in the shadow. What he shown in the end of the first clip can be found within all linage of WC, not an new discovery. If we had to label this concept at all, it would be "human form factor" not "XX body engine" ... we are not snake nor function like one.

 

[kung fu fighter]

For those of you interested here is Hendrik's new video clips on Force flow of the snake engine

 

[Vajramusti]

Yeah? That's what she said!

OK, sorry about that bit of adolescent regression, but seriously, all I've ever seen from Hendrik on forums was windy lectures. Is there anyplace where I can see this "internal snake power" demonstrated? To be honest, I'm not getting a full picture from the written word alone.

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy, from what I understand you don't know the snake engine because Hendrik never showed it to you when you visited him. Which would make sense because when I touched hands with Master Ho's last batch of deciples here in Canada whom got his most refined version of his teachings. I was not overly impressed either, the most senior one I could control and hit at will in chi sao, The second one trained with master Ho privately for many years had good elbow force. But over all none of them were any comparrison to Hendrik's skill level. So I understand your perspective.

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Sense or non sense.....I have rolled with hendrik- was not impressed.Toronto is not the highlight location of Mater Ho's teaching- Macao was-- so called touching hands in Toronto does not give a full picture of Ho kam ming's work. He is now an old man and completely retired.And I don't have the time or patience or space to do justice to what my sigung was about. I show things to my students and select friends and visitors. It is not my living but my love. I have rolled with lots of people from practically every major line but I wont do any ego driven chest beating here. Hendrik in his own way just repackages in a jumbled fashion cherry picking from various You tube videos what is already known-- on springs, joints, "bows", action- reaction, circles, lines etc- and not in an articulate or effective way. Yik Kam wing chun is a minor form of wing chun. And hendrik has his own problems of legitimacy with other yik Kam folks including his senior Wang Kiu Kit. But I can understand how some people in visiting Hendrik may have been impressed.
So now after some peace and quiet we have the return of Hendrik from the shadows after messing up on other forums. Why not just provide a you tube Hendrik link and let it go rather than begin a chain of Hendrik videos here? Let's keep this forum a sensible place free of dogmatism and excesses of ego.

 

[kung fu fighter]

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Sense or non sense.....I have rolled with hendrik- was not impressed.Toronto is not the highlight location of Mater Ho's teaching- Macao was-- so called touching hands in Toronto does not give a full picture of Ho kam ming's work. He is now an old man and completely retired.And I don't have the time or patience or space to do justice to what my sigung was about. I show things to my students and select friends and visitors. It is not my living but my love. I have rolled with lots of people from practically every major line but I wont do any ego driven chest beating here.

Good point Joy, Master Ho always said in terms of skill Level, his Best student was Sifu Lui Min Fai in Macau. And In truth I've never touched hands with him, but thanks to Youtube one can now see the mechanics he is using which is just Good elbow and body structure, he does not use force flow or snake engine that Hendrik does or speaks about.

Hendrik in his own way just repackages in a jumbled fashion cherry picking from various You tube videos what is already known-- on springs, joints, "bows", action- reaction, circles, lines etc- and not in an articulate or effective way.

What Hendrik does has more in common with the internal arts compared to any wing chun youtube videos, so i don't see how this could be possible.

 

[Vajramusti]

Good point Joy, Master Ho always said in terms of in terms of skill Level, his Best student was Sifu Lui Min Fai in Macau. And In truth I've never touched hands with him, but thanks to Youtube one can now see the mechanics he is using which is just Good elbow and body structure, he does not use force flow or snake engine that Hendrik does or speaks about.



What Hendrik does has more in common with the internal art compare to than to what most wing chun sifus do or any youtube videos, so i don't see how this could be possible.

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Best student? HKM has had lots of good students.

Internal?? A good system will have internal elements. Most wing chun sifus? Hardly a source of authority.
Good wing chun remains a rare art. Gresham's law applies--the bad drives out the good.

 

[geezer]

...thanks to Youtube one can now see the mechanics he is using which is just Good elbow and body structure, he does not use force flow or snake engine...

I'm always impressed by how much some people can see from youtube clips. Personally, I need to see and feel a person's pressure in person to get an understanding of the energy they are using.

 

[Danny T]

I'm always impressed by how much some people can see from youtube clips. Personally, I need to see and feel a person's pressure in person to get an understanding of the energy they are using.

Yep!

 

[Vajramusti]

Yep!

 

[Vajramusti]

Yep!

Yep!

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Apparently many folks these days don't have competent sifus correcting them on details.

Lots of self taught youtube watching sources of "authority", Among many other things you
don't see subtle and competent fusions of internal and external.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Since the The "Force flow in WCK" thread was locked, i will post my reply to this on here

Navin,

Do you think this Zuti can take one single force flow short from me?
He claim he can take ten strike to his stomach.
one needs to think before one talk. Lol

Hendrik uses force line type power generation which will penetrate even a thick Thai pad or phone book and damage your internal organs, this type of force will even penetrate iron body skills. I certainly would not want to be hit by him and I highly doubt you would be able to take just one of his full power strike to your stomach.

7 Bows skill demonstrated by Sifu Sergio during an IWKA Wing Tjun Instructor Seminar - YouTube

 

[Vajramusti]

Aaaah ... the infamous who discovered the "snake engine". Careful not to mention his name too many times, like what can happen if you say "Beetle Juice' three times. I would hate to have him pollute this forum. :waah:

 

[Vajramusti]

Hopefully no more spamming by Hendrik and his converts.

 

[Hendrik]

Joy,

If you like to start your thread and offer your art. And let the Wck commutiy judge it is have any value. Please do that .
That would be great!

In the mean time, could you please leave me and others alone to discuss our stuffs peacefully?

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy,

If you like to start your thread and offer your art. And let the Wck commutiy judge it is have any value. Please do that .
That would be great!

In the mean time, could you please leave me and others alone to discuss our stuffs peacefully?

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Hendrik- I am entitled to comment on your repeated posting of the same old same old stuff. Another forum was ruined by your spamming
and I really think that MT should have civil diversity. Your stuff is on Youtube- people can see them there as they can many other
videos.
Good wing chun from several lineages know the importance of coordinated spin. They also know about energy flow. usage of joints.
Repackaging with different phrases and repeatedly posting basically the same stuff again and again and again is indeeda form of spamming.,,
a one way street of repeated dogmatism.

I don't do it , the WSL people don't do it,the WT people don't do it, TST people don't do it...etc.