The Mechanics Of Powering Your Martial Arts Movement

[J. Pickard]

If you don't know this information. Then your physics will make the assumption that there was an equation to your speed and if you can move at speed x then you can do the same thing. Then they will develop a training program to make people faster. All of this would be done without the consideration for the simple reality "It's easy to be quick when you know what's coming."

Yep, that is an accurate assessment. there is more to being a good fighter than just having a hard and fast punch/kick but there definitely is an equation for speed, it's distance over time. And there definitely are training regimens for speed, I attended a boxing seminar on developing speed last year and it was a lot of fun. What you are referring to is reaction time (which can also be trained and quantified) and you are absolutely correct that your reaction time is faster when you already know what's coming. Very good points. Doesn't matter how hard you can punch if you never hit the target.

 

[dvcochran]

and only now did I realize I think, once again, I misinterpreted your point. Just to clarify, are you saying there is no one best Martial art to develop technique? In that case I 100% agree. Each martial art with a similar goal (striking, grappling, etc) all usually try to train the same parts of the body for the same reason they just have different approaches. Karateka might hit makiwara or hand pads to develop penetrating strikes while a boxer would use a heavy bag for that purpose but both are developing the same thing just in a different way.

Pretty much. I was just saying there is no 'perfect equation' to determine the best technique. We can capture the absolutes and constants but the intangibles are left up to the practitioner. To me this is not style specific.

 

[tim po]

when i think of the mechanics of generating power in movement, martial or just labor, the first thing that comes to my mind is 'rooted agility'. by that i mean the ability to freely relocate the vertical center of my body without loosing integral structural connection to the ground. structural integrity is achieved with a posturally balanced skeleton. when the bones are in the right place, the muscles that support them remain within the range of their motion wherein they have highest capacity for forceful contraction (i call this the the 'powerband').
an example:
a slightly forward pelvic tilt, flattening the lumbar spine and engaging the rectus abdominus, and puts the ilio-psoas in a middle-range state, compared with a posture where the lumbar spine is arched and the pelvis tilted to the posterior. in this 'middle' range of it's potential, the psoas is very stable, and has optimal capability to generate force by contraction. with a posterior tilt of the pelvis, the psoas is extended and has to travel a bit to reach that potential. if you don't understand what i mean think of this: if you wanted to curl a heavy dumbell (why? idk) would it be easier to begin with your arm straight, elbow locked? or would bending your arm a bit make beginning the curl easier? the extreme ends of a muscles' range of motion are it's least powerful, generally, different athletic pursuits train a different range in different muscles.

next i think of my breathing. inhaling and exhaling, and rhythmic combinations of both. in breathing i find that i can release or build tension in my muscles, and that tension can be amplified, when the breath is compressed in various ways.

i never really think about punching or kicking. i don't think much about striking, at all. strikes happen on their own, where and with what is not something i have to think of. if my feet are in the right place, if my body is in the right position, some bony protrusion or other is bound to interfere with his forward momentum. i can 'hit' hard, sure, but they are already trying to hit me hard, i'd rather that force that they are working so hard to generate be what 'powers' the impact of my bones and their muscles,. whether or not that strike has force enough to do what i need it to do, depends on my rootedness, the structure of my skeleton, and the transition from a state of low-tension to a forceful contraction of my muscles at the moment of impact, then back to fluidity, all in one breath.

all of this of course implies that i still have my balance, that my center has not been taken from me, perhaps by a more skilled(or surprise) attack. moving while on your back is still a matter of rooted agility, and breathing is still a viable way to control the degree of fluidity or rigidity of your body.

those things are to me the root of power in martial movement.

 

[_Simon_]

when i think of the mechanics of generating power in movement, martial or just labor, the first thing that comes to my mind is 'rooted agility'. by that i mean the ability to freely relocate the vertical center of my body without loosing integral structural connection to the ground. structural integrity is achieved with a posturally balanced skeleton. when the bones are in the right place, the muscles that support them remain within the range of their motion wherein they have highest capacity for forceful contraction (i call this the the 'powerband').
an example:
a slightly forward pelvic tilt, flattening the lumbar spine and engaging the rectus abdominus, and puts the ilio-psoas in a middle-range state, compared with a posture where the lumbar spine is arched and the pelvis tilted to the posterior. in this 'middle' range of it's potential, the psoas is very stable, and has optimal capability to generate force by contraction. with a posterior tilt of the pelvis, the psoas is extended and has to travel a bit to reach that potential. if you don't understand what i mean think of this: if you wanted to curl a heavy dumbell (why? idk) would it be easier to begin with your arm straight, elbow locked? or would bending your arm a bit make beginning the curl easier? the extreme ends of a muscles' range of motion are it's least powerful, generally, different athletic pursuits train a different range in different muscles.

next i think of my breathing. inhaling and exhaling, and rhythmic combinations of both. in breathing i find that i can release or build tension in my muscles, and that tension can be amplified, when the breath is compressed in various ways.

i never really think about punching or kicking. i don't think much about striking, at all. strikes happen on their own, where and with what is not something i have to think of. if my feet are in the right place, if my body is in the right position, some bony protrusion or other is bound to interfere with his forward momentum. i can 'hit' hard, sure, but they are already trying to hit me hard, i'd rather that force that they are working so hard to generate be what 'powers' the impact of my bones and their muscles,. whether or not that strike has force enough to do what i need it to do, depends on my rootedness, the structure of my skeleton, and the transition from a state of low-tension to a forceful contraction of my muscles at the moment of impact, then back to fluidity, all in one breath.

all of this of course implies that i still have my balance, that my center has not been taken from me, perhaps by a more skilled(or surprise) attack. moving while on your back is still a matter of rooted agility, and breathing is still a viable way to control the degree of fluidity or rigidity of your body.

those things are to me the root of power in martial movement.

Really enjoyed your post, and how you worded it too. Especially this bit: "the ability to freely relocate the vertical center of my body without loosing integral structural connection to the ground".

Also just an annoying tidbit from me, you got the pelvic tilts switched around hehe. Tilt to the front/anterior pelvic tilt is like tipping the bowl to the front (arching the lumbar spine). Posterior/backward pelvic tilt is tipping the bowl to the back (flattening the lumbar spine).

And totally get what you mean about the particular lengthened or shortened muscle position being weakest. Enjoyed your thoughts

 

[tim po]

Tilt to the front/anterior pelvic tilt is like tipping the bowl to the front (arching the lumbar spine). Posterior/backward pelvic tilt is tipping the bowl to the back (flattening the lumbar spine).

I'm constantly screwing up terminology of this nature, it's been so long since i sought to explain any of this in words, i am enjoying the challenge! thank you for the clarification.

i thought of something else i could mention, that relates to this rooted movement training, it is how i use a heavybag, generally. i have an 80lb bag, a heavy solid beast that knows only one thing in all the world; that is where it's center of gravity is, and it wants nothing but to remain exactly where it wants to rest from it's point of suspension. so, instead of punching and kicking it,(it doesn't punch back) what i get from it most is immediate honest feedback as to my rootedness and structural integrity. i move into the bag, making contact with it where i will ( i hang the bag low enough that my knees can make contact with the bottom of the bag), hips, shoulders, forearms, fists, etc, but mostly just moving my center of gravity into 'it's space' in a guarded formation. if i am solid in my movement and structure, the bag moves and i don't, if i am even the slightest bit off-balance or out of alignment, i feel it, whether it is a subtle nudge or if i am way off, the bag displaces me.

all of this represents a part of the overall concept of Irimi, the idea being to 'enter' the attack(without getting hit), using distance, angling and timing of movement to place your body where you can disrupt the opponents center(whether through structural disruption or pain-compliance) and maintain advantage over their ability to continue the attack. the initial contact can be strikes or punches or gentle redirection and subtle footwork that displaces the attackers center and provides advantage, but ultimately, whomever is stronger in structure and balance is going to be the one that gains advantage from the impact.

i want to clarify why i differentiate punching or kicking from striking, in terms. i think of punches and kicks as strikes that begin from and immediately recoil to a neutral, guarded position. this is effective and sound fighting strategy and i am not dissing this method. how power is transferred through the body mechanics into these types of strikes is more complex, but was very thoroughly discussed earlier in the thread, no argument.
strikes can occur wherever contact is made, but these contact points will not be 'strikes' unless you are delivering power to these points via structural integrity, contraction of the musculature, breath compression, etc. a strike can be effective from inches away from the target, if the whole body is behind it.

when i 'kick' nowadays, i more or less am taking a large 'step' into and through my target, exactly the way you would kick to break down a door. the power transfer is the same as if i step forward without lifting my foot to strike. what matters is that your center of gravity remains supported by the body's structure, and kicking a heavy bag this way does provide that feedback... unfortunately if you are doing it right, you may find it very difficult to prevent tearing the lag bolt out of the ceiling. once upon a time, i had high kicks all day long, but i probably haven't lifted my foot higher than my waist in 20 years... so this is what i do now instead, again, not dissing the kicking styles of many martial arts, just not something i held onto, finding that other methods better suited my intentions..

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

when i think of the mechanics of generating power in movement, martial or just labor, the first thing that comes to my mind is 'rooted agility'. by that i mean the ability to freely relocate the vertical center of my body without loosing integral structural connection to the ground. structural integrity is achieved with a posturally balanced skeleton. when the bones are in the right place, the muscles that support them remain within the range of their motion wherein they have highest capacity for forceful contraction (i call this the the 'powerband').
an example:
a slightly forward pelvic tilt, flattening the lumbar spine and engaging the rectus abdominus, and puts the ilio-psoas in a middle-range state, compared with a posture where the lumbar spine is arched and the pelvis tilted to the posterior. in this 'middle' range of it's potential, the psoas is very stable, and has optimal capability to generate force by contraction. with a posterior tilt of the pelvis, the psoas is extended and has to travel a bit to reach that potential. if you don't understand what i mean think of this: if you wanted to curl a heavy dumbell (why? idk) would it be easier to begin with your arm straight, elbow locked? or would bending your arm a bit make beginning the curl easier? the extreme ends of a muscles' range of motion are it's least powerful, generally, different athletic pursuits train a different range in different muscles.

next i think of my breathing. inhaling and exhaling, and rhythmic combinations of both. in breathing i find that i can release or build tension in my muscles, and that tension can be amplified, when the breath is compressed in various ways.

i never really think about punching or kicking. i don't think much about striking, at all. strikes happen on their own, where and with what is not something i have to think of. if my feet are in the right place, if my body is in the right position, some bony protrusion or other is bound to interfere with his forward momentum. i can 'hit' hard, sure, but they are already trying to hit me hard, i'd rather that force that they are working so hard to generate be what 'powers' the impact of my bones and their muscles,. whether or not that strike has force enough to do what i need it to do, depends on my rootedness, the structure of my skeleton, and the transition from a state of low-tension to a forceful contraction of my muscles at the moment of impact, then back to fluidity, all in one breath.

all of this of course implies that i still have my balance, that my center has not been taken from me, perhaps by a more skilled(or surprise) attack. moving while on your back is still a matter of rooted agility, and breathing is still a viable way to control the degree of fluidity or rigidity of your body.

those things are to me the root of power in martial movement.

Very well articulated. I like this post.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'm constantly screwing up terminology of this nature, it's been so long since i sought to explain any of this in words, i am enjoying the challenge! thank you for the clarification.

i thought of something else i could mention, that relates to this rooted movement training, it is how i use a heavybag, generally. i have an 80lb bag, a heavy solid beast that knows only one thing in all the world; that is where it's center of gravity is, and it wants nothing but to remain exactly where it wants to rest from it's point of suspension. so, instead of punching and kicking it,(it doesn't punch back) what i get from it most is immediate honest feedback as to my rootedness and structural integrity. i move into the bag, making contact with it where i will ( i hang the bag low enough that my knees can make contact with the bottom of the bag), hips, shoulders, forearms, fists, etc, but mostly just moving my center of gravity into 'it's space' in a guarded formation. if i am solid in my movement and structure, the bag moves and i don't, if i am even the slightest bit off-balance or out of alignment, i feel it, whether it is a subtle nudge or if i am way off, the bag displaces me.

all of this represents a part of the overall concept of Irimi, the idea being to 'enter' the attack(without getting hit), using distance, angling and timing of movement to place your body where you can disrupt the opponents center(whether through structural disruption or pain-compliance) and maintain advantage over their ability to continue the attack. the initial contact can be strikes or punches or gentle redirection and subtle footwork that displaces the attackers center and provides advantage, but ultimately, whomever is stronger in structure and balance is going to be the one that gains advantage from the impact.

i want to clarify why i differentiate punching or kicking from striking, in terms. i think of punches and kicks as strikes that begin from and immediately recoil to a neutral, guarded position. this is effective and sound fighting strategy and i am not dissing this method. how power is transferred through the body mechanics into these types of strikes is more complex, but was very thoroughly discussed earlier in the thread, no argument.
strikes can occur wherever contact is made, but these contact points will not be 'strikes' unless you are delivering power to these points via structural integrity, contraction of the musculature, breath compression, etc. a strike can be effective from inches away from the target, if the whole body is behind it.

when i 'kick' nowadays, i more or less am taking a large 'step' into and through my target, exactly the way you would kick to break down a door. the power transfer is the same as if i step forward without lifting my foot to strike. what matters is that your center of gravity remains supported by the body's structure, and kicking a heavy bag this way does provide that feedback... unfortunately if you are doing it right, you may find it very difficult to prevent tearing the lag bolt out of the ceiling. once upon a time, i had high kicks all day long, but i probably haven't lifted my foot higher than my waist in 20 years... so this is what i do now instead, again, not dissing the kicking styles of many martial arts, just not something i held onto, finding that other methods better suited my intentions..

I knew what you meant. posterior vs anterior tilt.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm constantly screwing up terminology of this nature, it's been so long since i sought to explain any of this in words, i am enjoying the challenge! thank you for the clarification.

i thought of something else i could mention, that relates to this rooted movement training, it is how i use a heavybag, generally. i have an 80lb bag, a heavy solid beast that knows only one thing in all the world; that is where it's center of gravity is, and it wants nothing but to remain exactly where it wants to rest from it's point of suspension. so, instead of punching and kicking it,(it doesn't punch back) what i get from it most is immediate honest feedback as to my rootedness and structural integrity. i move into the bag, making contact with it where i will ( i hang the bag low enough that my knees can make contact with the bottom of the bag), hips, shoulders, forearms, fists, etc, but mostly just moving my center of gravity into 'it's space' in a guarded formation. if i am solid in my movement and structure, the bag moves and i don't, if i am even the slightest bit off-balance or out of alignment, i feel it, whether it is a subtle nudge or if i am way off, the bag displaces me.

all of this represents a part of the overall concept of Irimi, the idea being to 'enter' the attack(without getting hit), using distance, angling and timing of movement to place your body where you can disrupt the opponents center(whether through structural disruption or pain-compliance) and maintain advantage over their ability to continue the attack. the initial contact can be strikes or punches or gentle redirection and subtle footwork that displaces the attackers center and provides advantage, but ultimately, whomever is stronger in structure and balance is going to be the one that gains advantage from the impact.

i want to clarify why i differentiate punching or kicking from striking, in terms. i think of punches and kicks as strikes that begin from and immediately recoil to a neutral, guarded position. this is effective and sound fighting strategy and i am not dissing this method. how power is transferred through the body mechanics into these types of strikes is more complex, but was very thoroughly discussed earlier in the thread, no argument.
strikes can occur wherever contact is made, but these contact points will not be 'strikes' unless you are delivering power to these points via structural integrity, contraction of the musculature, breath compression, etc. a strike can be effective from inches away from the target, if the whole body is behind it.

when i 'kick' nowadays, i more or less am taking a large 'step' into and through my target, exactly the way you would kick to break down a door. the power transfer is the same as if i step forward without lifting my foot to strike. what matters is that your center of gravity remains supported by the body's structure, and kicking a heavy bag this way does provide that feedback... unfortunately if you are doing it right, you may find it very difficult to prevent tearing the lag bolt out of the ceiling. once upon a time, i had high kicks all day long, but i probably haven't lifted my foot higher than my waist in 20 years... so this is what i do now instead, again, not dissing the kicking styles of many martial arts, just not something i held onto, finding that other methods better suited my intentions..

Interesting way of using the heavy bag

 

[letsplaygames]

Xingyiquan has very distinct power generation.

There are many layers to it:

briefly..

There is Deng Jing which is a hybrid of the standard power generation methodology seen in modern arts (i.e. Driving off the back leg, torqing the hip etc...) correct deng jing technique is to drive off the back leg and use the lead leg like a shock absorber, catching your forward momentum and at the point of farthest extension of the strike (as if you were falling into/through your opponent... The lead leg I.e "the shock absorber" kicks in and stops the fall, while this is happening, you pull the rear leg up under you to maintain equilibrium. (If your not familiar with Xingyiquan this might not make sense, or if your not familiar with the Wu Xing (the five fists) which are designed around footwork of this nature, it also might not make sense

On the Internet I see people demonstrating this a lot. (although looking clumsy and primitive... looking like they have little prowess while doing it.

Then there is:

And... Tang Jing: Kind of like Jet fuel to the above methodology. Rear leg moves first, whole body compress over the spot the rear leg is moving too. (rear leg stomps "for a lack of better terminology" whole body acts like one huge spring/shock absorber, propelling the bodies mass behind the stomp. Again... (If your not familiar with Xingyiquan this might not make sense, or if your not familiar with the Wu Xing (the five fists) which are designed around footwork of this nature, it also might not make sense.

I don't see people often demonstrating this on the internet.

Both Deng and Tang Jing are used in strikes/punches, kicks and throws etc

Xingyiquan also bases a lot of footwork (using the above methods for power generation ) around shuffles (worm stepping) and skipping (chicken stepping)

I have not mention the Wu Xing (five fists) PI, Zuan, Beng, Pao & Heng and how each one has a unique power generation designed around Teng & deng Jing.

Anyway it pretty unique stuff... Just like other internal arts ... people get lost in the weeds with these methods and end up being a joke when it comes to having prowess.

 

[_Simon_]

Xingyiquan has very distinct power generation.

There are many layers to it:

briefly..

There is Deng Jing which is a hybrid of the standard power generation methodology seen in modern arts (i.e. Driving off the back leg, torqing the hip etc...) correct deng jing technique is to drive off the back leg and use the lead leg like a shock absorber, catching your forward momentum and at the point of farthest extension of the strike (as if you were falling into/through your opponent... The lead leg I.e "the shock absorber" kicks in and stops the fall, while this is happening, you pull the rear leg up under you to maintain equilibrium. (If your not familiar with Xingyiquan this might not make sense, or if your not familiar with the Wu Xing (the five fists) which are designed around footwork of this nature, it also might not make sense

On the Internet I see people demonstrating this a lot. (although looking clumsy and primitive... looking like they have little prowess while doing it.

Then there is:

And... Tang Jing: Kind of like Jet fuel to the above methodology. Rear leg moves first, whole body compress over the spot the rear leg is moving too. (rear leg stomps "for a lack of better terminology" whole body acts like one huge spring/shock absorber, propelling the bodies mass behind the stomp. Again... (If your not familiar with Xingyiquan this might not make sense, or if your not familiar with the Wu Xing (the five fists) which are designed around footwork of this nature, it also might not make sense.

I don't see people often demonstrating this on the internet.

Both Deng and Tang Jing are used in strikes/punches, kicks and throws etc

Xingyiquan also bases a lot of footwork (using the above methods for power generation ) around shuffles (worm stepping) and skipping (chicken stepping)

I have not mention the Wu Xing (five fists) PI, Zuan, Beng, Pao & Heng and how each one has a unique power generation designed around Teng & deng Jing.

Anyway it pretty unique stuff... Just like other internal arts ... people get lost in the weeds with these methods and end up being a joke when it comes to having prowess.

Hmm fascinating!

I've been curious about this stomp of the rear leg as we explored it a little in training... would you say it's more for downward directed strikes (eg downward elbows or hammer fists) or applicable to forward directed ones too (eg straight punches)?

I'm trying to understand the purpose of the stomp a bit better (we only explored it briefly before our end of year break). In terms of just shuffling forward with the front leg then rear leg following (and doing a punch), would you say there's a disadvantage to sliding/dragging that rear leg up vs. lifting it up and stomping upon the punch? (In terms of power generation)

I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense haha, it's late XD

 

[letsplaygames]

Hmm fascinating!

I've been curious about this stomp of the rear leg as we explored it a little in training... would you say it's more for downward directed strikes (eg downward elbows or hammer fists) or applicable to forward directed ones too (eg straight punches)?

I'm trying to understand the purpose of the stomp a bit better (we only explored it briefly before our end of year break). In terms of just shuffling forward with the front leg then rear leg following (and doing a punch), would you say there's a disadvantage to sliding/dragging that rear leg up vs. lifting it up and stomping upon the punch? (In terms of power generation)

I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense haha, it's late XD

Newton’s third law “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction” is behind the purpose of the “stomp”. (Again for a lack of better terminology… because it’s not exactly a stomp)

It’s a power amplifier.

Body mass in motion, the stomp causes an equal reaction of kinetic force bouncing off the floor, which you direct into the target. You have
to be in motion. Can be up or down, generally has to be linear up or down in function though.

Shuffle or skip toward a heavy bag, raise the lead leg of the ground, stay in motion, project the kick through the bag, use your mass to propel the kick. You are doing it right when the rear leg slides up underneath you to keep you upright. At first you will want push the bag with the kick, (which is a tactic) but when you learn to strike with the kick… refine it, where there is no telegraph… then ask yourself do you see a disadvantage with shuffling. Would you want to be on the receiving end of your kick? You might, might not… if your doing that kick right… I wouldn’t…

so no I never seen a disadvantage to worm stepping (shuffle stepping) or skipping (chicken stepping) Xingyiquan by its very nature uses what western boxing calls “long rhythm” i.e linear back and forth, in and out… not “short rhythm” i.e lateral side to side movement….
Shuffle stepping and Skipping go hand in hand with Long rhythm

 

[Oily Dragon]

Xingyiquan has very distinct power generation.

There are many layers to it:

briefly..

There is Deng Jing

Another bridge pops up.

Deng Kiu is the stabilizing/settling bridge.

 

[dvcochran]

Newton’s third law “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction” is behind the purpose of the “stomp”. (Again for a lack of better terminology… because it’s not exactly a stomp)

It’s a power amplifier.

Body mass in motion, the stomp causes an equal reaction of kinetic force bouncing off the floor, which you direct into the target. You have
to be in motion. Can be up or down, generally has to be linear up or down in function though.

Shuffle or skip toward a heavy bag, raise the lead leg of the ground, stay in motion, project the kick through the bag, use your mass to propel the kick. You are doing it right when the rear leg slides up underneath you to keep you upright. At first you will want push the bag with the kick, (which is a tactic) but when you learn to strike with the kick… refine it, where there is no telegraph… then ask yourself do you see a disadvantage with shuffling. Would you want to be on the receiving end of your kick? You might, might not… if your doing that kick right… I wouldn’t…

so no I never seen a disadvantage to worm stepping (shuffle stepping) or skipping (chicken stepping) Xingyiquan by its very nature uses what western boxing calls “long rhythm” i.e linear back and forth, in and out… not “short rhythm” i.e lateral side to side movement….
Shuffle stepping and Skipping go hand in hand with Long rhythm

Great post. But boxing commonly uses the aide to side motions you mention. Not as much in power generation as linear movement however.

 

[tim po]

would anybody else say that there tends to be a big difference in how 'rooting' in motion is executed between Chinese martial arts (in general, i can think of exceptions, like perhaps Wing Chun) and Japanese/Korean martial arts? my sense is that the latter tend more towards shifting the weight between the feet in a more linear, direct way, feet staying close to or even in contact with the ground, where as in Chinese kung fu the weight shifts by rising up and straight back down, making it more suitable for (as previously discussed) slippery floors and uneven terrain? this is something i have observed, but could just be how i have perceived things.

 

[Flying Crane]

would anybody else say that there tends to be a big difference in how 'rooting' in motion is executed between Chinese martial arts (in general, i can think of exceptions, like perhaps Wing Chun) and Japanese/Korean martial arts? my sense is that the latter tend more towards shifting the weight between the feet in a more linear, direct way, feet staying close to or even in contact with the ground, where as in Chinese kung fu the weight shifts by rising up and straight back down, making it more suitable for (as previously discussed) slippery floors and uneven terrain? this is something i have observed, but could just be how i have perceived things.

I cannot speak to what others do, or what is done in non-Chinese methods, but in terms of my practice in the Chinese arts, and what else I have seen, I would say that I do not agree with this.

 

[tim po]

I cannot speak to what others do, or what is done in non-Chinese methods, but in terms of my practice in the Chinese arts, and what else I have seen, I would say that I do not agree with this.

i have instruction in all three, but nowhere near mastery of anything. what i do now most certainly reflects the influence of many arts, but particularly from Japan, Korea and China. i just feel like when practicing outdoors in wild terrain, the movements of Five Animals Kung Fu is much more adaptable and efficient for a subtle difference in how the center is kept, in motion.

Kung Fu Wang posted about the infinite symbol(i looked but this thread is long and i couldn't find it again) and about compression and release, drawing power from and returning force to the earth. I noticed this in several Chinese arts I have practiced, but damned if I can explain it! the way the root spirals into the ground in one heel and force wells up in the ball of the other foot, and vise versa, meanwhile this same motion is occurring in different planes with the movement of the limbs...i feel i would be much more capable of generating power in my movement hopping from rock to rock in a stream using Kung Fu, then i would using any other arts I've studied.

I never found this precise 'way' of controlling my center in movement in the Japanese and Korean arts, but never felt a lack of rooted power, either.. it is more like 'gripping' the earth with your feet and dragging it backwards behind you (aka moving forward). very fast and powerful, but better suited for more even ground.
just my observation,, just that there are so many different ways to use the force.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

would anybody else say that there tends to be a big difference in how 'rooting' in motion is executed between Chinese martial arts (in general, i can think of exceptions, like perhaps Wing Chun) and Japanese/Korean martial arts? my sense is that the latter tend more towards shifting the weight between the feet in a more linear, direct way, feet staying close to or even in contact with the ground, where as in Chinese kung fu the weight shifts by rising up and straight back down, making it more suitable for (as previously discussed) slippery floors and uneven terrain? this is something i have observed, but could just be how i have perceived things.

I don’t understand the question or the description of rising up and straight back down. These things are very difficult to describe in general. If I assume that I know what you mean, I would say I don’t agree with your assessment of what is happening in my experience regarding CMA outside of the ability to move on a slippery floor, which is how I have trained for the entirety.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

would anybody else say that there tends to be a big difference in how 'rooting' in motion is executed between Chinese martial arts (in general, i can think of exceptions, like perhaps Wing Chun) and Japanese/Korean martial arts? my sense is that the latter tend more towards shifting the weight between the feet in a more linear, direct way, feet staying close to or even in contact with the ground, where as in Chinese kung fu the weight shifts by rising up and straight back down, making it more suitable for (as previously discussed) slippery floors and uneven terrain? this is something i have observed, but could just be how i have perceived things.

I should also say that how I perceive it is only relevant to me. How you perceive it is also relevant to me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

would anybody else say that there tends to be a big difference in how 'rooting' in motion is executed between Chinese martial arts (in general, i can think of exceptions, like perhaps Wing Chun) and Japanese/Korean martial arts? my sense is that the latter tend more towards shifting the weight between the feet in a more linear, direct way, feet staying close to or even in contact with the ground, where as in Chinese kung fu the weight shifts by rising up and straight back down, making it more suitable for (as previously discussed) slippery floors and uneven terrain? this is something i have observed, but could just be how i have perceived things.

I would assume there's no one way to root that would classify a system. I'm sure most system vary depending on the technique used and the situation at the moment an effort is made to root.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I would assume there's no one way to root that would classify a system. I'm sure most system vary depending on the technique used and the situation at the moment an effort is made to root.

Gravity hits all by itself.