Differences between To-Shin Do and the Bujinkan?

[Don Roley]

When the BBT school I started in switched over to To-Shin-Do there was no change in what, or how we were taught (right at the beginning, so they were still working out the final "course materials".)

That cuts to the heart of the matter.

I look at what the heads of the respective orginizations do and reccomend and I see differences. I look at schools in America and I see that many people are still influenced by early Hayes stuff- both Bujinkan and not.

Recently I ranted about how I saw many people over the years who had been teaching sword work who finally showed up to learn how to swing the damn things at Someya. There is a lot more stuff that many Bujinkan people still think of as being from Hatsumi that is actually from Hayes. I once even had some guy ask my teacher if the techniques he was showing were to be done with a certain elemental feeling. He explained that the san shin elements were not really feelings, merely a means of counting.

Hatsumi has been calling for people to come to Japan, or train with people that do. Hopefully there will be a slow pull towards how things are done in Japan and prior misconceptions can be done away with. Now that Hayes has started Toshindo, maybe less people will be confused. But there is still a lot of stuff that is not really Bujinkan being taught as such.

 

[saru1968]

Funny you should post that but we had a short thread

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49465

looking at the usage of the SKH elemental approach. I see very little in my circles compared to the earlier years.


But apart from the elemental approach people make posts saying the training is the same, you can transfer back and forth with ease but this can't be so as otherwise why the need for a new 'system'.(not opening can of worms here with any further comment)

I've seen some of the syllabus and i can see where it comes from but its not the same.

What to learn Bujinkan? learn Bujinkan.

What to learn Toshindo? learn Toshindo.

Simply really.

 

[evolution combat]

ok lets just start with a dont get defensive straight away....... yes he shouldnt make accusations about any particular style but the fact of the matter is he should have a confedince in his own style and you have the no right to slam him down about it..... todays street society is ever changing any martial set by rules or bounds obviously isn't goin to keep up. you mention you taking rifle and wat not lesson well that dont mean ****, that aint goin to help u even if you have the killer instinct to pull the trigger cos lets face it if something happens and you have the time to get a gun and fire it well you aint defending yourself anymore your attacking,,, let me ask you another question how many fights on the street have you been in, me i grown up on the other side of the fence and if your trying to analyse your every move it wont work, you do a martial art for self benifit reasons not to take lives or even really fight, cos no matter how good you r u, it only takes one luky hit

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

"Yo peep this: la di da di, we like to party, we don't cause trouble, we don't bother nobody, we're just some men that's on the mic, and when we rock upon the mic we rock the mic right..."

 

[Bigshadow]

"Yo peep this: la di da di, we like to party, we don't cause trouble, we don't bother nobody, we're just some men that's on the mic, and when we rock upon the mic we rock the mic right..."

Huh? :idunno:

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slick_Rick

 

[Arachne]

Similarities between To-Shin Do and the Bujinkan?

In anyway, could one be said to complement the other, or vice versa?

 

[Cryozombie]

In anyway, could one be said to complement the other, or vice versa?

Sure it could be said.

Would it be RIGHT?

That's another issue, there.

 

[Arachne]

Precisely to the point Cryozombie, there is another issue here.
The main difference is Orthodox Bujinkan was suited for Samurai Warriors, with Samurai weapons wearing Samurai armour.
Why else was Taijutsu developed for? To hunt pigs?

 

[stephen]

Precisely to the point Cryozombie, there is another issue here.
The main difference is Orthodox Bujinkan was suited for Samurai Warriors, with Samurai weapons wearing Samurai armour.
Why else was Taijutsu developed for? To hunt pigs?

So....Takamatsu sensei always wore "Samurai armour"?

 

[saru1968]

The main difference is Orthodox Bujinkan was suited for Samurai Warriors, with Samurai weapons wearing Samurai armour.

err..............No

 

[Don Roley]

The main difference is Orthodox Bujinkan was suited for Samurai Warriors, with Samurai weapons wearing Samurai armour.

Please, just stop. I understand you are a student of Gary Arthur and are repeating word for word what he has said. But as you have been told in another thread, he was banned here for his own actions. He seemed to do his best to try to cause trouble and none of us are sad for his banning. We have a few people here that study Toshindo that are decent and are slowly reducing the damage to it's reputation Gary Arthur did to it.

I urge you to read a lot more and realize that what you are hearing from your teacher is a sales pitch and one side of the story. If you have not spent several years in the Bujinkan, you really should not be making statements like the one above. We do not want the constant flame wars we used to see here before certain people were banned. Please do not continue their crusade.

 

[Kreth]

I understand you are a student of Gary Arthur and are repeating word for word what he has said.

Don, you misspelled "what he is dictating." Please be more careful in the future.



:uhyeah:

 

[Cryozombie]

Precisely to the point Cryozombie, there is another issue here.
The main difference is Orthodox Bujinkan was suited for Samurai Warriors, with Samurai weapons wearing Samurai armour.
Why else was Taijutsu developed for? To hunt pigs?

Sorry... are YOU telling ME what Bujinkan training is?

Hahahahahahahaha.

Ahem. Sorry.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[saru1968]

Sorry... are YOU telling ME what Bujinkan training is?

Hahahahahahahaha.

Ahem. Sorry.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yeah, but remember its the REAL stuff from the 80's...

 

[Arachne]

But wheres the Samurai's?

 

[saru1968]

But wheres the Samurai's?

Samuari's what?

or are you talking plural?

 

[Arachne]

"even monkeys fall from trees"

But where's the Samurai?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Explain your question please.

 

[SKB]

I have had the chance to train with a few folks from the Bujinkan. They seem more formal then the other people I train with. Even in the way they move. Reminds me of when I used to train in other arts were everything is done just right or you are wrong. A few of these people have started training in To-Shin Do where I train at. When I ask them the diffrence the main thing I hear is the presentation. I can not comment on what they mean but there is less formality in To-Shin Do, at least where I train at, then other arts I have studied.