defense against knife attack like this ...

[MJS]

In prison? Depends on who you're stuck with. I'd say that they give you at least somthing in your toolbox that the average Joe wouldn't have, but that is about it.

In prison or in the real world. Now, while I don't think that everyone that tries to mug us on the street is a trained MMA fighter, and while we may think of them as the average Joe, I still don't want to under estimate them. For all I know, they could've spent the last 10yrs behind bars, now they get out, and go right back to robbing people. So, in essance, this guy is no different in his mentality than the people who're still locked up.

Interestingly enough, I mentioned this clip to my Kenpo inst. today, during my lesson. We worked some Kenpo and Arnis knife work. Some techs. better than others, but then again, we found ourselves having to modify things for a more aggressive type stab.

In prison, and I speak as one never having served a prison sentence nor having worked in corrections, I think that being aware of your surroundings, the politics, and doing your best to steer clear of trouble is more important than technique and training. When those things don't work, technique and training are good things to have, but they're just tools.

Really the best bet is to do your best to steer clear of trouble on the outside and do your best to not end up on the inside. The biggest disadvantage that the average MA student has in prison is that they're not going to be accustomed to the environment, which can get them hurt or killed.

Daniel

Couldn't agree more.

 

[MJS]

If someone takes it into their head to shank you and is willing to risk the consequences, then you're in a heap of trouble. Your only real hope in that kind of situation is to shank him first... you and 10 of your closest friends. If it's that serious and you're in a contained, violent environment like prison, there's not a lot of choice.

My friend who is a Capt., was telling me of a case that he was investigating. Guy was minding his own business, and saw another inmate approaching him, with one of his hands closed in a fashion as if he was hiding something. Not knowing what the other guy had, when he got close enough, he just hauled off and punched him. Fortunately the other guy went out cold, only to find a small shank that he had in his hand. So yes, I agree with what you said, if you think its going down, beat 'em to it. Then again, that can be applied in RL as well. If I'm trying to talk a situation down, and I see the guy drawing back or moving too close to me, I'm not waiting for him, I'm reacting. His aggressive movement is all I need to see.

And no, few of us train with enough resistance often enough to be able to deal with an experienced, determined knife-weilding thug that outweighs us by 50 lbs or more. Most of us are dilletantes... mere effete, deluded, naive wannabe's in a world populated by trained and EXPERIENCED killers.

Think of it this way... if you're a decent amateur violinist who's never performed in public, could you make it through a gig with the New York Philharmonic? Nope... you'd likely fall like a house of cards... there's the amateur and then there's the professional. Very few musicians think they have the chops to hang with that orchestra, even if they have good training. So why do so many martial artists think that a couple of hours training a week would make one capable of swimming with the big fish when it's your actual life on the line? *shrug*

Best regards,

-Mark

And thats another thing that I spoke to my teacher about today. If our job was to do nothing but train, 8hrs a day, 7 days a week, man, imagine what we'd be able to do? However, we all have real jobs, wives, husbands, kids, etc., so we balance our training will all that stuff.

I've been training for over 20yrs. I'm no expert, no master and no superman. I don't think anyone else is either. I can die, bleed, get shot, stabbed, etc. just like everyone else. We can only hope that the training that we do though, pulls us thru. Of course, I'd rather train for 5hrs a week, and keep my training real, work things that are simple, effective, instead of spending those same 5hrs training with someone who when they go to choke me, it feels more like they're giving me a shoulder massage than a choke. If I spent that time really being choked, really feeling like I was losing air, I think my chances of survival just went up, when I really need to pull that choke defense out of my toolbox to save my rear.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I didn't read through the entire 5 pages, but I did watch the video, so if what I'm saying has already been said before, forgive me...

First off, that video is downright scary. Stuff can happen quickly like that with no warning, and no real amount of training can help you, aside from keeping you out of the situation to begin with.

That's really the only preventative measure that I can see that could have been taken...either don't go to jail, or try to stay out of position for something like that to happen.

The thing is, though, that even if we did train 24/7, we can't protect ourselves from everything. Things happen in life with no warning, and they can happen too quickly for you to react.

I look at it like this:

When I drive, I try to drive as cautiously as I can, and I try desperately to avoid reckless drivers. The thing is, I pass by roads that I can't see down sometimes, and I don't know if there is traffic coming from that direction or not. Crossing an intersection, I may not be able to see where the cross traffic is coming from, and all it takes is for one person to lose control or not obey the traffic law and I'm dead meat.

You just can't train to protect yourself from being blindsided. You can, however, use your training to try to keep yourself out of those situations as much as possible.

 

[Aiki Lee]

And thats another thing that I spoke to my teacher about today. If our job was to do nothing but train, 8hrs a day, 7 days a week, man, imagine what we'd be able to do? However, we all have real jobs, wives, husbands, kids, etc., so we balance our training will all that stuff.

Yes, this will always be the dream.

I've been training for over 20yrs. I'm no expert, no master and no superman. I don't think anyone else is either. I can die, bleed, get shot, stabbed, etc. just like everyone else. We can only hope that the training that we do though, pulls us thru. Of course, I'd rather train for 5hrs a week, and keep my training real, work things that are simple, effective, instead of spending those same 5hrs training with someone who when they go to choke me, it feels more like they're giving me a shoulder massage than a choke. If I spent that time really being choked, really feeling like I was losing air, I think my chances of survival just went up, when I really need to pull that choke defense out of my toolbox to save my rear.

1st of all, humility is one of the signs of a great master, combined with your realistic approach to training if you truly aren't there yet, I have no doubt that you will be someday.

2nd, I really agree with you that only realistic training will be what gives us a chance to survive out there, and the better our training the better our chances are. I'm sure I could handle some clown with a knife, maybe even two. Three? Now we're in likely need to run the hell away territory.

I might be able to handle a moderately skilled knife fighter. I'm no master but I'm no slouch either. While I hope I never have to put my big mouth to the test, if the situation ever came up I would need to be able to address the situation with the belief that I can make it out alive, because if I go in thinking 'I"m gonna be killed, I'm gonna be killed" how could I possibly get any other outcome?

 

[MJS]

Yes, this will always be the dream.

1st of all, humility is one of the signs of a great master, combined with your realistic approach to training if you truly aren't there yet, I have no doubt that you will be someday.

Good point.

2nd, I really agree with you that only realistic training will be what gives us a chance to survive out there, and the better our training the better our chances are. I'm sure I could handle some clown with a knife, maybe even two. Three? Now we're in likely need to run the hell away territory.

Agreed. Its hard enough to fight empty handed multiples, letalone ones that are all armed.

I might be able to handle a moderately skilled knife fighter. I'm no master but I'm no slouch either. While I hope I never have to put my big mouth to the test, if the situation ever came up I would need to be able to address the situation with the belief that I can make it out alive, because if I go in thinking 'I"m gonna be killed, I'm gonna be killed" how could I possibly get any other outcome?

Another good point. If we keep thinking that something bad is going to happen, it just might. This isn't to say that it still won't, but if we are already thinking of failure then, as you said.....

 

[sgtmac_46]

If someone takes it into their head to shank you and is willing to risk the consequences, then you're in a heap of trouble. Your only real hope in that kind of situation is to shank him first... you and 10 of your closest friends. If it's that serious and you're in a contained, violent environment like prison, there's not a lot of choice.

And no, few of us train with enough resistance often enough to be able to deal with an experienced, determined knife-weilding thug that outweighs us by 50 lbs or more. Most of us are dilletantes... mere effete, deluded, naive wannabe's in a world populated by trained and EXPERIENCED killers.

Think of it this way... if you're a decent amateur violinist who's never performed in public, could you make it through a gig with the New York Philharmonic? Nope... you'd likely fall like a house of cards... there's the amateur and then there's the professional. Very few musicians think they have the chops to hang with that orchestra, even if they have good training. So why do so many martial artists think that a couple of hours training a week would make one capable of swimming with the big fish when it's your actual life on the line? *shrug*

Best regards,

-Mark

EXACTLY! Most folks don't see prison for what it really is as far as violent criminals go.....GLADIATOR SCHOOL!

 

[Aiki Lee]

I was working personal security for an MMA fight on saturday in Chicago and it was my duty to check epople for knives.

I kid you not, I found more than 20. All kinds too, pocket knives, spyderco, butterfly knives, box cutters. And the most unsuspecting characters had them too! The huge, scarred faced biker dude? No knife. A little old man barely 5 feet tall? 4" blade.

Plus over half the audience members were trained MMA fighters since the fights for the night were two local schools competing against each other so I had the fun job of telling some pretty tough looking individuals that they can't take their knives into the next room.

So tonight at the dojo I'm going to focus on multiple attackers with knives for the advanced classes.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

EXACTLY! Most folks don't see prison for what it really is as far as violent criminals go.....GLADIATOR SCHOOL!

So true. Should we not benefit from this in some meaningful way? If we are going to coninually send violent offenders to gladiator school, should they not be made to put that education to work... as gladiators?

Matches could be set up and televised on a pay per view basis. All proceeds would go to eliminating our national debt. I would be surprised if we were not debt free in less than three years.

Plus, the prison overcrowding problem would get some relief.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I was working personal security for an MMA fight on saturday in Chicago and it was my duty to check epople for knives.

I kid you not, I found more than 20. All kinds too, pocket knives, spyderco, butterfly knives, box cutters. And the most unsuspecting characters had them too! The huge, scarred faced biker dude? No knife. A little old man barely 5 feet tall? 4" blade.

Of course. The knife is an equalizer. The huge, scarred faced biker dude really doesn't need one. Muggers and predators view him as a tough mark, so he is discarded as a target. The little old man barely 5 feet tall? He falls into the category of weak and defenseless in the eyes of a mugger or predator.

Daniel

 

[Aiki Lee]

So true.

 

[BLACK LION]

"BE POLITE, BE PROFFESSIONAL AND BE PREPARED TO KILL EVRYONE YOU MEET BECUASE THEY MAY BE PREPARED TO KILL YOU"...

The answer to this question came before the stabbing occurred... he fell asleep on watch and thats what happens , people get killed... you cannot afford the luxury of the comfort of denial esecially in a place like that but even you own neighborhood... assume it can happen anytime, anywhere with anyone... habituate violence so you know how to use and especially how to avoid it.


my thought
Broderick

 

[Aiki Lee]

One of my teachers said that if someone intends to threaten you, you must be prepared to hurt them. If they intend to hurt you, you must be prapared to maim them. If they intend to maim you, you must be prepared to kill them. If they intend to kill you, you must be prapared to rise from your grave and haunt them for eternity.

It can be tough to get that kind of mindset, but a serious mentality is necessary to win any confrontation whether it is physical or just verbal.