defense against knife attack like this ...

[Bruno@MT]

If I were going to be in that situation, as long as I had some foresight, I would try to get some type of clothing that is knife restistant. I know prisoners have limited supply, but they tend to be very innovative. I am thinking some leather or several layers of mattress fabric or even a laundry bag if possible. Then I would layer it as best I could and shape it to conform to my body as best that I could. Trying to make it protect my vital organs as much as possible.

From what I know (which is only from nat geo documentaries) that is simply not allowed. If it were, then pretty much all inmates would dress like that.
Sgtmac is right. It is his own damn fault he ended up like that. He should have assumed that someone was out to get him, even IF he didn't know why. Living in lalaland is not a long term survival strategy in prisons like that.

 

[arnisador]

Fighting against weapons are the same as fighting against an unarmed person, except if you screw up the consequences are worse.

Your enemy's body has to move the same way, he'll come at you from the same angle he would without a weapon

I don't believe that at all--especially about a knife. I tell people that if you're fighting empty-hand vs. the knife, you're playing boxing against someone who only has to play tag. They can move rather differently because they need much less force to cut you. It's quite different if the knifer knows what he's doing.

 

[arnisador]

Best thing to do if you go to prison I would say is get thrown in solitary, then you don't have to worry about it.

In principle, yes. In practice, there's a reason it's a punishment that people want to avoid. Spending a 10-year sentence alone like that can be maddening, even if it lessens the risk of physical assault by others.

 

[suicide]

man i guess it is what it is then .... what would bruce lee do what would ed parker do ? things like this can happen outside prison to - maybe after a club etc etc .... has anyone here ever been attacked like this in here of course outside prison and what did you do ?

 

[MJS]

Another reason to do your best to know whats going on around you. Of course, in a prison setting, where you have large groups of people confined in an area, its hard.

As for the defense....well, if you saw it coming, and the swing of the arm was wide enough, it may be possible to get in somehow and counter. Other than that, I'm really not sure. My suggestion would be to pick something up yourself to use as a weapon.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Sinanju.

 

[searcher]

From what I know (which is only from nat geo documentaries) that is simply not allowed. If it were, then pretty much all inmates would dress like that.
Sgtmac is right. It is his own damn fault he ended up like that. He should have assumed that someone was out to get him, even IF he didn't know why. Living in lalaland is not a long term survival strategy in prisons like that.

Yeah, I am sure it would be "banned," but so are weapons and we see how well that is regulated.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

man i guess it is what it is then .... what would bruce lee do?

Get an acting carreer and avoid getting into any real fights (he did)

what would ed parker do ?

Run a school with a bunch of tough as nails students that nobody wants to mess with, stay out of trouble and get paid to work with movie stars (he did).

things like this can happen outside prison to - maybe after a club etc etc .... has anyone here ever been attacked like this in here of course outside prison and what did you do ?

Doing what Bruce Lee and Ed Parker did would probably prevent this, as such men would likely have had an entorage when attending public events.

Seriously. Clubs are probably not the safest environment and some are patently unsafe.

Know the club.

Know the area the club is in.

If the Hishi Manji gang hangs out at said club on Friday nights, then plan your club date on a Saturday or other weekday. Its less exciting, but healthier.

There are certain clubs that are known for violence. I have a hard time feeling sorry for those that regularly go there, get jumped, then say, 'I was just going to a club.' There is no band that is worth putting myself at risk to see.

The one act that I catch everytime he comes to town attracts an adult crowd that doesn't get into fights and behaves like the forty-plus with kids people that they are.

If the same guitarist was appearing at a club with regular shootings in the news, I'd stay home and pop in a concert video and be done with it.

Daniel

 

[GBlues]

Well, this is a good video, and it makes a point. Literally. When someone on the street attacks you, it's going to be much like that. Just as violent as possible. Doesn't take any training to be effective with a knife, just the knowledge that you can kill with it is enough. However, there were probably some words spoken before the attack. Seeing that slight pause, and then the attack. Probably something like, "Hey man those are my dip bars!" with a response of, "**** You!!" and then, "*****! *shank* *shank,shank,shank,shank* THen dead, and he got his dip bars back. I'd of let him have the durned thing!!! Not worth dying over.

Hmmm...if i was in prison, if somebody that wasn't one of my friends came walking up, with some of his, yeah, I wouldn't be staying on the dip bars, I'd be hopping down, at least mentally getting ready. I've got too many family members that have been in jail, or prison, to not have learned something from there experiences. Mostly don't go to prison, but if you do, there is a whole other set of rules you gotta follow in there. Number one is Always be ready. I mean it's either that or your gonna' be the cell block b--ch! That is not an option I like to think about. So that is what I would have done, he ain't my friend why's he coming over here? Hop down, he's getting to close, sh-t! He's got a shank, defend self, and hope you do it effectively, and don't die!

Course until I'm actually on the dip bars in prison, I'll never really know. Since I'm never going to prison, I aint gonna find out either.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I don't believe that at all--especially about a knife. I tell people that if you're fighting empty-hand vs. the knife, you're playing boxing against someone who only has to play tag. They can move rather differently because they need much less force to cut you. It's quite different if the knifer knows what he's doing.

In that situation you must be more committed thatn your attacker. One would likely get cut, but it is not nearly as difficult as some people make it out to be. Knife, sword, staff, club whatever. Once they move to strike, the body movements are the same as an unarmed movement so while it is likely that one will be cut during a knife attack, the more decicive one acts, the less damaging the cut will be. That is my experience.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

In that situation you must be more committed thatn your attacker. One would likely get cut, but it is not nearly as difficult as some people make it out to be. Knife, sword, staff, club whatever. Once they move to strike, the body movements are the same as an unarmed movement so while it is likely that one will be cut during a knife attack, the more decicive one acts, the less damaging the cut will be. That is my experience.

I knife, maybe even a Bowie knife (essentally a small sword), but not a full sword, bokken or jo staff and definitely not a bo/quarter staff, or even worse, a spear. The extra three feet or more of range afforded by a sword or a staff in the hands of a trained user, coupled with leveraged generation of power that is unattainable without such a weapon is a radically different dynamic.

The range alone puts you in a position where the armed opponent can pick you apart while you cannot effectively attack them. Very few people can effectely use their arms to block staves and certainly not swords. This limits your defensive options.

Unless you can effectively close the distance and get in too close for the weapon to be effective, you are effectively screwed. Even then, if your attacker can make use of elbows, knees, and grapples while armed, you are in for a tough fight. If he regains the upper hand, you could find yourself on the ground and either impailed, or having blows rained down upon you while you cannot move around.

Daniel

 

[sgtmac_46]

Fighting against weapons are the same as fighting against an unarmed person, except if you screw up the consequences are worse.

Your enemy's body has to move the same way, he'll come at you from the same angle he would without a weapon, so do any technique, just don't get stabbed.

just move, hit, and turn. He'll fall down. You might be a bloody mess, but he'll fall down.

That's kind of like of saying 'Playing the piano is easy......you just have to hit all the right keys at the right time'...

 

[searcher]

All of this talk of being in prison brings me back to a little conversation with a guy named Richard Marcinko. He had the great misfortune to belocked in prison for a while and he stated that the best thing he did was to start working out, in gym shorts and sneakers, no matter what the weather. He used to talk about going outside with it snowing and working out like a wild man. When he came back in out of the yard, he would be steaming with ice in his beard. Everyone thought he was certifiably nuts and they left him alone. Makes me think that you need to be thought of as some crazy loony and maybe they will leave you be. Maybe.

 

[searcher]

Himura-have you ever been in a knife fight? I have andletmetell you a little something. There is nothing easy about fighting against a weapon and it is way different then fighting against empty hands.

You are going to get cut and it is not going to last very long. Knife fights never last very long and they are always very bloody.

 

[sgtmac_46]

So, if you go to prison. Are you going to teach your gang how to fight? If they are not up to snuff when you arrive.

Most do.....those that know how to fight, train those who don't, and they all hit the weights.

If I were going to be in that situation, as long as I had some foresight, I would try to get some type of clothing that is knife restistant. I know prisoners have limited supply, but they tend to be very innovative. I am thinking some leather or several layers of mattress fabric or even a laundry bag if possible. Then I would layer it as best I could and shape it to conform to my body as best that I could. Trying to make it protect my vital organs as much as possible.

Yeah, they do some of that.......you'll notice some of the guys wearing those Carhart type coats, even though it's warm......they're the one's carrying weapons.

In the above video, you can see some of the counter-measures and tactics they use.

 

[sgtmac_46]

All of this talk of being in prison brings me back to a little conversation with a guy named Richard Marcinko. He had the great misfortune to belocked in prison for a while and he stated that the best thing he did was to start working out, in gym shorts and sneakers, no matter what the weather. He used to talk about going outside with it snowing and working out like a wild man. When he came back in out of the yard, he would be steaming with ice in his beard. Everyone thought he was certifiably nuts and they left him alone. Makes me think that you need to be thought of as some crazy loony and maybe they will leave you be. Maybe.

Yeah, I remember reading that........of course it doesn't hurt to be a crazy Navy Seal, who served several tours in Vietnam, got the best training the US Military could buy, and can bench press over 500 pounds!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I thanked you in this post because I agree with your basic logic:

Fighting against weapons are the same as fighting against an unarmed person, except if you screw up the consequences are worse.

Yes, that is true. It is also the same in that unless you're in a consenual duel, your main intent should be to defend and effect escape.

Your enemy's body has to move the same way, he'll come at you from the same angle he would without a weapon, so do any technique, just don't get stabbed.

Actually, no. He will have angles that an unarmed opponent would not be able to take advantage of without a weapon. With a sword, I can come at you from angles that would be impossible with my hands or feet. Even your ability to block is affected.

Now, where I agree with you here is that the principles of distance, footwork, and timing all remain the same, though you need to execute at your best level when fighting for your life against an armed assailant. Also, the main goal is most definitely still to escape, not to stand against the opponent.

just move, hit, and turn. He'll fall down. You might be a bloody mess, but he'll fall down.

Yes, but being a bloody mess after he falls down is not the most desireable outcome. Move, hit and turn, but you must do so against an opponent who's range has been extended by a minimum of a few inches and can badly injure you with what would normally be a lighter blow. You are correct in that the principles of fighting remain the same. But the dynamic changes substantially with the addition of a weapon. As you rightly indicate, you can end up a bloody mess, and with far less effort on your attacker's part and in ways much deadlier than a bloody nose.

Limbs that were once your shield not only lose that ability, but now become potential targets, as cutting deep into certain parts of the leg or arm can sever arteries and kill you. Get hamstrung and you may not bleed out, but you'll now be at his mercy.

Often, the weapon becomes your focal point and this can be a downfall if your attacker can get you following the weapon instead of reading his movements.

Daniel

 

[sgtmac_46]

I thanked you in this post because I agree with your basic logic:

Yes, that is true. It is also the same in that unless you're in a consenual duel, your main intent should be to defend and effect escape.

Actually, no. He will have angles that an unarmed opponent would not be able to take advantage of without a weapon. With a sword, I can come at you from angles that would be impossible with my hands or feet. Even your ability to block is affected.

Now, where I agree with you here is that the principles of distance, footwork, and timing all remain the same, though you need to execute at your best level when fighting for your life against an armed assailant.


Yes, but being a bloody mess after he falls down is not the most desireable outcome. Move, hit and turn, but you must do so against an opponent who's range has been extended by a minimum of a few inches and can badly injure you with what would normally be a lighter blow. You are correct in that the principles of fighting remain the same. But the dynamic changes substantially with the addition of a weapon. As you rightly indicate, you can end up a bloody mess, and with far less effort on your attacker's part and in ways much deadlier than a bloody nose.

Limbs that were once your shield not only lose that ability, but now become potential targets, as cutting deep into certain parts of the leg or arm can sever arteries and kill you. Get hamstrung and you may not bleed out, but you'll now be at his mercy.

Often, the weapon becomes your focal point and this can be a downfall if your attacker can get you following the weapon instead of reading his movements.

Daniel

And the ONE HUGE fundamental problem is this.....that in REAL life (or at least in Prison) knife attacks aren't dancing, slashing, movement matches........but more akin to playing FOOTBALL with blade......specifically, bodies slamming in to each other, with knives in the process.

Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny put it best when he said these type of knife attacks are more likely fighting a crazed chimpanzee armed with a blade!

I specifically refer everyone to 4:23 and Dogzilla's demo of the typical knife attack he's seen as a federal prison officer!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

And the ONE HUGE fundamental problem is this.....that in REAL life (or at least in Prison) knife attacks aren't dancing, slashing, movement matches........but more akin to playing FOOTBALL with blade......specifically, bodies slamming in to each other, with knives in the process.

Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny put it best when he said these type of knife attacks are more likely fighting a crazed chimpanzee armed with a blade!

Absolutely. Charging a victim with a knife not only takes them by surprise, but uses the body weight to both drive the knife in deeper and to unballance the victim, thus making it easier to continue to attack them.

Daniel

 

[Bruno@MT]

Yeah, I am sure it would be "banned," but so are weapons and we see how well that is regulated.

Small weapns can be hidden. Flak jackets... less so.