Dan rank in another system - your input...

[James Kovacich]

RyuShiKan,
Your site claims that you lineage goes back 400 years.

If you could be so kind to give us the exact line of instructors that goes back 400 years.

Just to verify that there are no skeletons in the closet!

 

[A.R.K.]

No, there are only three.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
RyuShiKan,
Your site claims that you lineage goes back 400 years.

If you could be so kind to give us the exact line of instructors that goes back 400 years.

Just to verify that there are no skeletons in the closet!

Mr. Oyata’s ancestor was Jana Uekata who was the Lord Chamberlain (basically the #2 guy in Okinawa) to the Ryukyu King during the Satsuma invasion in 1609.
Much of the the Kobudo, Bo specifically, we do comes from the Uhugushku family.
To be exact, Kenyu "Uni" Uhugushuku (cic. 1454).
Actually it's more like 500 years.

Here is the link to his bio.

http://www.gushikawa.com/oki-cul/ijin/yama-image/yama-01.htm

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
No, there are only three.

Nope 4.
Take a look at Mark Bisop's book, page 42.
It states that there are 4, however Kanbu Uechi didn't have time to learn the 4th (Suparinpe) due to lack of time.

See you just learned something from me already and we aint even "pals" yet.

Care to clarify that dan/soke info you were asked about?
Maybe some names or organizations.

Since I have emailed you and PMed you feel free to answer here on this thread or by PM/email.

PLease no long daitribe about me or skeletons......just the answers to the questions that have been asked of you repeatedly

 

[RyuShiKan]

.

 

[Hollywood1340]

Yes, it could star a Bruce Lee Look alike, searching through ancient China to verify his lineage, and kicking the crap out of all who dare to question it, because he is "pure" the perfect example of Kung Fu Lineage.
Gentleman, please. This pissing contest is getting old. Altough I must admit going back 400 years does indeed seem like a good question.
Oh, and yes before you ask here's mine:
GM Choi, GM Seo, GM Pelligrini, Taylor, Me
I can clarify if you wish, and back it up with independant data.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Hollywood1340

Gentleman, please. This pissing contest is getting old. Altough I must admit going back 400 years does indeed seem like a good question.

Just waiting for an answer by post, email, or PM.
As for the lineage.....I have posted it.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Hollywood1340
Altough I must admit going back 400 years does indeed seem like a good question.

Why is that so hard to fathom.
Schools like the Katori Shinto Ryu have lineage that is 600 years old.

 

[A.R.K.]

Ryushikan,

I received your PM but the reply was to long so I sent it to your email. Please let me know if you received it.

Thank you.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Ryushikan,

I received your PM but the reply was to long so I sent it to your email. Please let me know if you received it.

Thank you.

Yes I got.
It still didn't answer any of the questions I asked.

You claimed Shuri Te Ryu was a legit art in Okianwa.

I asked “who teaches it in Okinawa?”

You claimed there is some place in Kobe, Japan that you were given the tilte Soke from.

I asked “Who and what Organization?”

You claim an 8th dan in Pangainoon.

I asked “Who tested you for 8th dan?”

In your email I got 881 words on various things from family troubles to who your friends trained with but no answer to 3 simple questions.

I fail to see how my questions could be seen as confusing or difficult. Why not just answer them with a simple reply?

 

[A.R.K.]

Ok.

Peace and love.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Ok.

Peace and love.

Your unwillingness (or is it inability) to put forth the information asked for speaks volumes.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
RyuShiKan,
Your site claims that you lineage goes back 400 years.

If you could be so kind to give us the exact line of instructors that goes back 400 years.

Just to verify that there are no skeletons in the closet!

More on Mr. Oyata’s lineage.

Jana Uekata, as stated earlier, was a direct ancestor of Mr. Oyata’s and the Lord Chamberlain to the Ryukyu King during the Satsuma invasion of 1609.
Uekata is a title that was used in Okinawa much as the title Daimyo was used in Japan around the same time period. (Good God, I hope Uekata is not the new “buzz word” and people don’t start calling themselves Uekata like they have used Soke)
When the Satsuma clan took control they wanted the Ryukyu King to go to Edo (Tokyo) for a visit/audience with the Tokugawa Shogun. This was seen by the Okianwans for what it really was, basically a fancy kidnapping.
The Satsuma figured that with their King in Edo the Okinawans would not dare revolt, which they didn’t by the way, and would be easier to manage. The Okinawan King remained in Edo for many years....not sure how many I would have to check.
One of the main protesters to this was Jana Uekata. He resisted the taking of the King and was executed for it.
The Satsuma wanted to make an example out of him and after killing him made all the Jana family change their name to “Shinda”. Shinda has the same sound as “dead” in Japanese but use different kanji. The kanji for “shinda” they were made to use are oya=parent and ta=field, so they can also be pronounced as Oyata. The reason for this "shinda" name change was to remind anyone else that thought of resisting what the consequences would be..........."death"

Akja,

Hope this sheds some light on his background.
If not feel free to ask more.

 

[Matt Stone]

I don't want to be Uekata... I want to be Shogun!

Anybody remember Sho' Nuff, the Shogun of Harlem? Football shoulder pads, red hakama and untied hightop sneakers...

SHO' NUFF!

WHAT'S MY NAME???

SHO' NUFF

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I don't want to be Uekata... I want to be Shogun!

Anybody remember Sho' Nuff, the Shogun of Harlem? Football shoulder pads, red hakama and untied hightop sneakers...

SHO' NUFF!

WHAT'S MY NAME???

SHO' NUFF

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Am I the prettiest mo fo low down around this town?

SHO' NUFF!
:rofl:

 

[James Kovacich]

Of course when I went to the link that you provided, I could not translate it, but you took it upon yourself to shed some lite as you did.

But you did leave a lot of holes, like the names of the actual family members who were approved to teach and pass on the art.

I know there exists much controversy in all of martial art lineage. An example is James Mitose who is responsible of bringing Kenpo to the USA. From him many great warriors have come from students of his students. But everything about him (according to the public) is questionable.

Then theres Choki Motobu. I don't know which story to beleive.

My Instructor lineage (as noted on my site that you should of seen) was broken by my Sijo and has lost tradition from him all the way down to me, but it did show a direct line all the way back to the destruction of the Shaolin Temple.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
But you did leave a lot of holes, like the names of the actual family members who were approved to teach and pass on the art.

Originally posted by akja
Then theres Choki Motobu. I don't know which story to beleive.

Which stories have you heard?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I don't want to be Uekata... I want to be Shogun!

Anybody remember Sho' Nuff, the Shogun of Harlem? Football shoulder pads, red hakama and untied hightop sneakers...

SHO' NUFF!

WHAT'S MY NAME???

SHO' NUFF

 

[James Kovacich]

I believe you lineage is strong. All I mean is you didn't name the instructors. Especially in family arts lineage, not all family members were trained or for that matter approved to teach. Having the name or being a decendant does not make make the legitimacy.

I believe that in most lineages there are gray areas that go back far enough that nobody alive can actually dispute.

With Choki Motobu supposedly James Mitose was his nephew, possibly by marriage and that he had taught James Mitose from James being 5 years old until adulthood (15 years+ or -).

Also I've heard that the Motobu family (possibly aristrocrats or something) would not train Choki. The family style was to be taught to the eldest son which was not Choki. That he became a fighter pretty much on his own from being observant and that eventually someone did take him under their wing but that he only learned one form throughout his lifetime.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
I believe you lineage is strong. All I mean is you didn't name the instructors. Especially in family arts lineage, not all family members were trained or for that matter approved to teach.

I don’t have the names of all the family members, maybe you can ask my teacher for that info.
If I did have it I doubt I would have the time to list several hundred years worth on this forum.

Originally posted by akja

With Choki Motobu. supposedly James Mitose was his nephew, possibly by marriage and that he had taught James Mitose from James being 5 years old until adulthood (15 years+ or -).

That’s BS. There was no connection what so ever between the two.

Originally posted by akja
Also I've heard tht the Motobu fmily would not train Choki. The family style was to be taught t the eldest son which was not Choki. That he became a fighter pretty much on his own from being observant and that eventually someone did take him under their wing but that he only learned one form throughout his lifetime.

Choki Motobu was only a half brother of Choyu, the reason being he was the son of his father’s mistress and not his father’s wife.
Motobu has been painted in a bad light mostly by those that either didn’t know him or feared him.
Motobu had several teachers. Several of them are very respected, Itosu is probably the best known, Matsumora (not Matsumura, different guy), his brother was another.
He did learn much on his own and by testing himself in actual fights.
Contrary to popular BS Motobu is said to have never picked a fight but never ran from one either.
He's been painted out to be rude and crass by the likes of Funakoshi. (long story there) Something that is entirely untrue. Motobu was from one of the highest ranking families in Okinawan, what would be considered royalty today. In Japan and Okianwa there were certain ways to speak to people beneath your class level and above your class level. Since Motobu was of one of the highest class levels and a teacher he felt no need to use overly polite language to his students. This is still common among many Japanese teachers today. He did stress courtacy and manners in his teaching however. One thing that hindered him was his lack of knowledge of Japanese language and customs. Because of that there may have been many people that felt him to be rude.
Motobu learned many forms and said one only really needs to know one form to be an effective fighter. One can only guess what he was driving at but this statement somehow got twisted into him knowing only one form. I read in one of his books he claimed to know 5 kata.