Creating your own custom martial arts.

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The BEST style!!!

Yes! I win!!!

Only if you succeed. Otherwise your style is crap, and you cannot prove me otherwise.

 

[Martial D]

I'll go with you're wrong, that works for me. Ha! Too easy.


Even if you are right, it makes no true difference. I am most likely not to change my mind, because my opinion has been created by my experience. Likewise, you... yours.

Asian Dancing... reminds me of the joke. Judo is like dancing except the partners knock each other down.

If you want to think of MMA as being it's own unique animal, different from everything else ever created, go for it. I don't agree with you, and you're not going to agree with me. Having trained in MMA gyms, and taught in MMA gyms, I found that, to effectively teach, I had to use teaching tools of breaking down individual movements of techniques, whether that's how to throw an effective jab, work a punch combo, go from a strike exchange into a clinch then to a takedown and transition into groundwork, whatever it was... it all broke down into individual, small components. Those components all, for me, arose out of the underlying training in the various arts I'd practiced over the years. That's how I taught, and it seemed to be effective - the guys/gals got the lesson and went on to effectively use the things I'd taught in practice, matches, and ring fights.


But, for someone who didn't ever come up in any sort of traditional program, I can see how it easily could be different. Maybe it's the weight of 40-odd years of doing it the "old way" that's coloring my perception.

You do you how you want to do you. I'll remain me. We're not likely to change each others opinions on something so elusive, and illusory, as nomenclature.


But, if ya wanna arm wrestle...

Ok then, I have a challenge for you then, old man.

Define what a style is, and why. I look forward to watching you trip all over your own feet trying to carefully exclude MMA.

Go.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok then, I have a challenge for you then, old man.

Define what a style is, and why. I look forward to watching you trip all over your own feet trying to carefully exclude MMA.

Go.

That's a problem either looking to include it or looking to exclude it. It's also a problem for most styles.

 

[Martial D]

That's a problem either looking to include it or looking to exclude it. It's also a problem for most styles.

Ya, I'm really just trying to pin him down on his reasoning. So far all he has offered is that it contains elements of other martial arts..which if to be used as the distinguishing factor in something not being a style, also excludes almost every known style.

Guess Wing Chun isn't a style either. It's just guys doing snake style and crane style together.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

@Buka im speaking nothing of their raw fighting ability but i do not believe that it makes them inherently better at self defense and in some ways makes them worse

a few examples

• MMA fighters are well...trained to fight, whereas situational avoidance and verbal self defense can end a fight before it begins
• their fighting abilities are tailored to one on one in the ring not one one three in a cement parking lot filled with cars at night (all elements that change tactic needing to be used)
• they train to be in top performance and take a licking but a knife or gun doesnt care how many punches you can take

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@Buka im speaking nothing of their raw fighting ability but i do not believe that it makes them inherently better at self defense and in some ways makes them worse

a few examples

• MMA fighters are well...trained to fight, whereas situational avoidance and verbal self defense can end a fight before it begins
• their fighting abilities are tailored to one on one in the ring not one one three in a cement parking lot filled with cars at night (all elements that change tactic needing to be used)
• they train to be in top performance and take a licking but a knife or gun doesnt care how many punches you can take

I don't think most of those things make as big a difference as skill level. In general, I'd put money on the best-trained fighter if things get physical, regardless of the environment.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

I don't think most of those things make as big a difference as skill level. In general, I'd put money on the best-trained fighter if things get physical, regardless of the environment.

Absolutely not, thinking about and moderate training in environment, multiple attackers, and weapons can out weigh lots of skill and training for ring / sport fighting

especially when a blade is pulled

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Absolutely not, thinking about and moderate training in environment, multiple attackers, and weapons can out weigh lots of skill and training for ring / sport fighting

especially when a blade is pulled

If you think you're genuinely prepared to deal with multiple attackers and weapons, without a lot of experience dealing with them (in reality, not the dojo), you're fooling yourself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Absolutely not, thinking about and moderate training in environment, multiple attackers, and weapons can out weigh lots of skill and training for ring / sport fighting

especially when a blade is pulled

I think most folks who train in self-defense circles (and that's my circle) give too much emphasis to the effect their training has on weapon defense. If you gave me a skilled MMA fighter, I can make him a better defender against a weapon than someone who isn't as skilled. Give me the average MA student, and even with knife defense training, I think they're less prepared than a skilled (let's say an amateur who wins more than they lose) MMA fighter. The effect is even more pronounced for multiple attackers. Fighting skill matters a lot.

Mind you, I'm not saying context training, training for multiples, and training weapon defense doesn't matter. I'm saying the importance is easy to overstate. MMA training - even if it's heavily focused on competition - could easily be adapted to include the key principles of all three. I give the edge to the person who trains harder, more realistically, and with more emphasis on failure points. Most training for MMA is good fight training (I'm assuming there's some sloppy stuff out there calling itself "MMA"), and translates well to defensive use.

 

[drop bear]

One of the things I laugh about when I am getting mauled in sparring.

If I was doing Krav I would be knocking over a room full of guys with weapons by now.

Rather than struggling to deal with one guy.

And of course we do multiple sparring.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

One of the things I laugh about when I am getting mauled in sparring.

If I was doing Krav I would be knocking over a room full of guys with weapons by now.

Rather than struggling to deal with one guy.

And of course we do multiple sparring.

Then you're not doing real MMA training, obviously.

 

[drop bear]

Then you're not doing real MMA training, obviously.

We train for the ring.

A little ring we like to call the world.

 

[JP3]

Ok then, I have a challenge for you then, old man.

Define what a style is, and why. I look forward to watching you trip all over your own feet trying to carefully exclude MMA.

Go.

 

[JP3]

Ok then, I have a challenge for you then, old man.

Define what a style is, and why. I look forward to watching you trip all over your own feet trying to carefully exclude MMA.

Go.

First thing, I don't trip. I can fall rather awesomely, but no tripping. You're not paying attention, either. I don't need to exclude anything from anything else.

Here's a quick def of "style" it took 2 seconds to find:


"Any of several arts of combat and self-defense (such as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport."

From: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...artial%20art&usg=AOvVaw2Wa0l7VkY6Kg4oNh1jIkDw

Still doesn't change my opinion. For Me, MMA is a collection of styles into a system unique to the person. Simple enough. I can even use the above dictionary definition, though I didn't know Webster was up to providing definitions of phrases now, which I think is cool. Yes, I realize that you can use it as well, so we're back to the same issue of nomenclature.


Why are you wasting your training time on this?Is it so important to your world-view? You're not going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to change yours, and neither of our opinions has any effect upon the other.

 

[JP3]

That's a problem either looking to include it or looking to exclude it. It's also a problem for most styles.

Like what I've got going here with Martial D, it's one of those things that can easily go either way, is highly-dependent on perspective... and in the end really makes no real difference except for one's own personal understanding.

 

[JP3]

Ya, I'm really just trying to pin him down on his reasoning. So far all he has offered is that it contains elements of other martial arts..which if to be used as the distinguishing factor in something not being a style, also excludes almost every known style.

Guess Wing Chun isn't a style either. It's just guys doing snake style and crane style together.

For everyone, I apologize my system seems to be trying to double-post almost every time I reply for some reason. Sorry about that, I'm trying to figure out why.


Wing Chun has been around a long, long time. I agree with you, it's ridiculous to give credence to something only because it's been around a long time... but we humans do that All The Time. I'd say, and will probably offend WC folks, in my personal viepoint, their art is the MMA of CMA, if everyone will pardon the acronyms.

So, you pin me down, to which I gave in... and we are Still stuck on the same point. Opinions differ. You know the saying about opinions.

isn't a style either. It's just guys doing snake style and crane style

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We train for the ring.

A little ring we like to call the world.

That sounds like something Brian would say on Family Guy.

 

[drop bear]

For everyone, I apologize my system seems to be trying to double-post almost every time I reply for some reason. Sorry about that, I'm trying to figure out why.


Wing Chun has been around a long, long time. I agree with you, it's ridiculous to give credence to something only because it's been around a long time... but we humans do that All The Time. I'd say, and will probably offend WC folks, in my personal viepoint, their art is the MMA of CMA, if everyone will pardon the acronyms.

So, you pin me down, to which I gave in... and we are Still stuck on the same point. Opinions differ. You know the saying about opinions.

isn't a style either. It's just guys doing snake style and crane style

I am lost. It is like saying a table doesn't exist. There are MMA gyms that do MMA.

I am not sure how opinion really factors in.

So picked at random.

The style doesn't exist?

The gym doesn't exist?

I am not sure what there is to opinion on?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am lost. It is like saying a table doesn't exist. There are MMA gyms that do MMA.

I am not sure how opinion really factors in.

So picked at random.

The style doesn't exist?

The gym doesn't exist?

I am not sure what there is to opinion on?

The debate is whether they're doing MMA (a completely separate thing) or a combination of things. It's a reasonable question that doesn't have a definitive answer. It's like asking whether I teach Shojin-ryu, or mainline NGA with some Judo/FMA/boxing/BJJ. I can argue both sides of that, because it doesn't really matter which we call it, so long as we all know what it is.

In the case of MMA, I think it gets more vague, because there are some places that do teach what I consider MMA (as a style), and others that specifically teach the component styles, plus how to use them together for MMA competition. So I'd argue sometimes it's a style, and sometimes it's just the competition the gym trains folks for.

 

[Martial D]

The debate is whether they're doing MMA (a completely separate thing) or a combination of things. It's a reasonable question that doesn't have a definitive answer. It's like asking whether I teach Shojin-ryu, or mainline NGA with some Judo/FMA/boxing/BJJ. I can argue both sides of that, because it doesn't really matter which we call it, so long as we all know what it is.

In the case of MMA, I think it gets more vague, because there are some places that do teach what I consider MMA (as a style), and others that specifically teach the component styles, plus how to use them together for MMA competition. So I'd argue sometimes it's a style, and sometimes it's just the competition the gym trains folks for.

Yet if even one single gym in the world teaches it wholisticly, it's a style in that place, even by buddies own definition.

If it exists as a style in a place, it exists.