Creating your own custom martial arts.

[Denoaikido]

Yes very true i have been noticing this alot more now that I am in aikido and working with so many different body sizes im 6 ft 4in 215lbs right now . I noticed some advantages in aikido for being the tall guy and some very big dis advantages as the art was made by a much smaller man then me or most American's period so that being said,I am pleased there are some moves that really work for me because of my hight and reach advantages as well,I love aikido i am learning from a guy here that trained with one of <Osensei's>direct students sensei sugawara and he even comes here from japan and teaches its a honor to be so close to the original art form.

 

[Martial D]

I agree with everything you have said, not one art provides everything you need

Unless you consider MMA to be its own style(and I do)

 

[Denoaikido]

That is fair enough but even mma depending who teaches it might leave out some desired things and cant cover every art but sure is the closest thing if taught right.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That is fair enough but even mma depending who teaches it might leave out some desired things and cant cover every art but sure is the closest thing if taught right.

There are many systems/arts that include grappling and striking. Some instructors leave parts out, some add other parts in. And some systems are specialized (and some instructors further specialize within them). Whether a style has everything a student needs depends on the student's goals.

 

[Denoaikido]

I totally agree there ^^^^^^^

 

[Buka]

Unless you consider MMA to be its own style(and I do)

I do as well. Darn good one, too.

 

[Denise A Daniel]

I am searching for a book showing the chung do kwan tae kwan do katas from the first to the last one. Is there such a book out there and where can I find it? Thanks everyone. I was in Chung Do Kwan for about 10 years, broke a metatarsal - my fault - that took six months to heal and personal circumstances took me away from my beloved teacher and friends. My friend and I, 67 and 72 years old now want to relearn our katas and are having trouble finding a book to carry us through. She's 2nd degree black and I am brown or red in some schools. Any help will be appreciated! Thanks again!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I am searching for a book showing the chung do kwan tae kwan do katas from the first to the last one. Is there such a book out there and where can I find it? Thanks everyone. I was in Chung Do Kwan for about 10 years, broke a metatarsal - my fault - that took six months to heal and personal circumstances took me away from my beloved teacher and friends. My friend and I, 67 and 72 years old now want to relearn our katas and are having trouble finding a book to carry us through. She's 2nd degree black and I am brown or red in some schools. Any help will be appreciated! Thanks again!

I would recommend starting your own post asking for it. The people who might know, might not look in this thread since the thread isnt related to TKD, if you start one with the title chung do kwan tkd or something similar it might help

 

[Denise A Daniel]

Thank you for such a quick response. I found a book on amazon with the ITF katas from white to the last black belt kata. All 24. Pictures, diagrams, info on who it was named for, etc. Thanks again!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you for such a quick response. I found a book on amazon with the ITF katas from white to the last black belt kata. All 24. Pictures, diagrams, info on who it was named for, etc. Thanks again!

I'm glad you found what you were looking for. I hope you'll hang around and post. There's a pretty active group of TKD folks here for you to interact with.

 

[dvcochran]

I am searching for a book showing the chung do kwan tae kwan do katas from the first to the last one. Is there such a book out there and where can I find it? Thanks everyone. I was in Chung Do Kwan for about 10 years, broke a metatarsal - my fault - that took six months to heal and personal circumstances took me away from my beloved teacher and friends. My friend and I, 67 and 72 years old now want to relearn our katas and are having trouble finding a book to carry us through. She's 2nd degree black and I am brown or red in some schools. Any help will be appreciated! Thanks again!

It is great to hear about you and your friend. It should be great exercise for the both of you.
I saw several YouTube channels with CDK forms which may be easier to learn from. While looking for books I saw that there were different versions of forms from various books so that may be a problem for you. Amazon had a few books.

 

[Buka]

Thank you for such a quick response. I found a book on amazon with the ITF katas from white to the last black belt kata. All 24. Pictures, diagrams, info on who it was named for, etc. Thanks again!

Welcome to Martial Talk, Denise. Nice to have you.

 

[JP3]

Unless you consider MMA to be its own style(and I do)

OK, the rest of this thread, which started out mistitled in my opinion, has been sort of going in circles, but the above caught my attention.

So, "MMA is its own style?" Just curious, how did you get to that concept?

My own thought is that MMA is more descriptive of the act of combining other styles, since the styles that make up one MMA fighter's … catalogue if you will, don't necessarily have to match with another's, i.e. a longtime judoka can start doing a lot of Muay Thai and cover one's gaps witht he other's training regimen... and that person's actual, mat-level appearance of style won't match a guy/gal who came up in sport TKD, figured out they'd better protect their head and got heavy into western boxing and trained in Sambo for their grappling art.

Is my question making sense?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

OK, the rest of this thread, which started out mistitled in my opinion, has been sort of going in circles, but the above caught my attention.

So, "MMA is its own style?" Just curious, how did you get to that concept?

My own thought is that MMA is more descriptive of the act of combining other styles, since the styles that make up one MMA fighter's … catalogue if you will, don't necessarily have to match with another's, i.e. a longtime judoka can start doing a lot of Muay Thai and cover one's gaps witht he other's training regimen... and that person's actual, mat-level appearance of style won't match a guy/gal who came up in sport TKD, figured out they'd better protect their head and got heavy into western boxing and trained in Sambo for their grappling art.

Is my question making sense?

I think both views have merit.

There are places now that teach "MMA", rather than teaching the separate arts. They often split it into "standing/striking" and "ground work", rather than (for instance) Muay Thai and BJJ. All the ones I've seen appear to have similar mixes - all the usual suspects (CCW, Judo, BJJ, MT, western boxing, etc.). We could call MMA in this case, actually, an art, with several similar styles within it, based on which arts the standing and ground work were taken from.

But then there's also a complement of MMA gyms that still teach the underlying arts more completely, as well as those folks who train in a single art, then (usually) supplement to fill gaps so they can compete in MMA.

 

[dvcochran]

Doesn't the name "Mixed Martial Arts" say it all?

 

[JP3]

I think both views have merit.

There are places now that teach "MMA", rather than teaching the separate arts. They often split it into "standing/striking" and "ground work", rather than (for instance) Muay Thai and BJJ. All the ones I've seen appear to have similar mixes - all the usual suspects (CCW, Judo, BJJ, MT, western boxing, etc.). We could call MMA in this case, actually, an art, with several similar styles within it, based on which arts the standing and ground work were taken from.

But then there's also a complement of MMA gyms that still teach the underlying arts more completely, as well as those folks who train in a single art, then (usually) supplement to fill gaps so they can compete in MMA.

Right, and I agree with that. But, does the simple act of combining techniques into a curriculum reach the...hmm... threshold for lack of a better term, for "creating a style?"

Right when I was getting Wasabi going, putting in the sprung floor, etc., I was training at what I'd call a "MMA gym." I'd call it that as I've had some time spent in both boxing "gyms" and Muay Thai "gyms." Same exact feel to them. Was there training, absolutely. Was there teaching, certainly. Was there a "style" I could identify, not really.

Well, unless you look at each fighter training in there, including me, as representing their own style. If you did that, you'd have maybe 20-30 different "styles," as each guy did things a bit differently. I was probably the only guy in there (shoot, I was probably the only guy in Texas) using a jab-cross-hook, footsweep to leg kick combo... but I bet you that most of the guys in there had those tools in the bag. They just didn't see the efficacy, or have the skillset yet, to use them. I did, so I did. My arms are Gibbon-long, so it's hard for me to generate punching power, but I can pull a cow out of a ditch, so despite the frame I go in for clinches instead of staying outside. That seems backwards of traditional thought, but it's typically worked for me unless I get partnered-up with someone along Mike Tyson's body and fighting style. But, I digress...

It's the "is its own style" that makes me confused, I guess. Can Martial D, for instance, call it what he wants? Of course he can and he's as right as I am, no worries. It is just weird to me that we can take, let's say 3 random styles, each of which operate to fill gaps in what the others lack, jam them together into an individual operator's toolbox, and then Wham-O, his new style is called MMA, which is the same thing we call another guy who used three completely different arts/styles, whatever.


This is going to sound cookie jar on the bottom shelf simple, but is it the mere act of combining arts to cover flaws/gaps what makes what we now call MMA its own style? Maybe that's it.

 

[dvcochran]

Pull a cow out of a ditch; I Love that saying!

 

[Martial D]

OK, the rest of this thread, which started out mistitled in my opinion, has been sort of going in circles, but the above caught my attention.

So, "MMA is its own style?" Just curious, how did you get to that concept?

My own thought is that MMA is more descriptive of the act of combining other styles, since the styles that make up one MMA fighter's … catalogue if you will, don't necessarily have to match with another's, i.e. a longtime judoka can start doing a lot of Muay Thai and cover one's gaps witht he other's training regimen... and that person's actual, mat-level appearance of style won't match a guy/gal who came up in sport TKD, figured out they'd better protect their head and got heavy into western boxing and trained in Sambo for their grappling art.

Is my question making sense?

MMA "boxing" is quite different than boxing

MMA grappling is much different than wrestling or bjj.

MMA movement is quite different from any other style.

Not to mention every 'traditional' style has roots in other styles just as MMA does.

So if every aspect is different from other styles, in addition to my last point, why would you think it wasn't a district style?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Right, and I agree with that. But, does the simple act of combining techniques into a curriculum reach the...hmm... threshold for lack of a better term, for "creating a style?"

Right when I was getting Wasabi going, putting in the sprung floor, etc., I was training at what I'd call a "MMA gym." I'd call it that as I've had some time spent in both boxing "gyms" and Muay Thai "gyms." Same exact feel to them. Was there training, absolutely. Was there teaching, certainly. Was there a "style" I could identify, not really.

Well, unless you look at each fighter training in there, including me, as representing their own style. If you did that, you'd have maybe 20-30 different "styles," as each guy did things a bit differently. I was probably the only guy in there (shoot, I was probably the only guy in Texas) using a jab-cross-hook, footsweep to leg kick combo... but I bet you that most of the guys in there had those tools in the bag. They just didn't see the efficacy, or have the skillset yet, to use them. I did, so I did. My arms are Gibbon-long, so it's hard for me to generate punching power, but I can pull a cow out of a ditch, so despite the frame I go in for clinches instead of staying outside. That seems backwards of traditional thought, but it's typically worked for me unless I get partnered-up with someone along Mike Tyson's body and fighting style. But, I digress...

It's the "is its own style" that makes me confused, I guess. Can Martial D, for instance, call it what he wants? Of course he can and he's as right as I am, no worries. It is just weird to me that we can take, let's say 3 random styles, each of which operate to fill gaps in what the others lack, jam them together into an individual operator's toolbox, and then Wham-O, his new style is called MMA, which is the same thing we call another guy who used three completely different arts/styles, whatever.


This is going to sound cookie jar on the bottom shelf simple, but is it the mere act of combining arts to cover flaws/gaps what makes what we now call MMA its own style? Maybe that's it.

I think it’s as iffy as anything we discuss about delineating between styles and arts. Just how different is Shojin-ryu from mainline NGA? How different is NGA from a simplified Daito-ryu, or Yoshinkan Aikido?

 

[JP3]

MMA "boxing" is quite different than boxing

MMA grappling is much different than wrestling or bjj.

MMA movement is quite different from any other style.

Not to mention every 'traditional' style has roots in other styles just as MMA does.

So if every aspect is different from other styles, in addition to my last point, why would you think it wasn't a district style?

Just tossing out there that "MMA _______ is quite different from ______" unsupported doesn't help me to understand your point. In your mind, How is MMA boxing different from regular, Western boxing? The MMA "boxing coaches" used to be just regular, old, western boxing coaches. Same thing for MMA grappling vs., say, BJJ grappling. Shoot, the techniques are direct quotes most of the time.


I agree with what you said about how most arts/styles are amalgams or combinations of other styles, I get that and it's a good point. And I also get that it's way easier to call what the typical MMA practitioner does by the acronym MMA, rather than coming up with something that attempts to explain it all, jukafuyingshudojutsuwa or whatever.

I have problem with seeing it as its own "distinct" thing, as the only thing that is distinct and... maybe as you pointed out, separable, is the mixing-up of other techniques into a cohesive whole.


Jumping off of what Gerry wrote above.... this type of nomenclature war makes my head hurt because I can't understand it. And understand, in no way is this a comment on the efficacy or lack thereof of MMA. MMA works. Use your strength against the others weakness, basic tactics made into a system. It works and I like it. Names & labels are a problem. Does it truly make a huge difference if Bill Bigfist calls himself a MMA-ist or it's intrinsic in his history? To me it doesn't, but I'm not Bill Bigfist either.