Creating your own custom martial arts.

[Gerry Seymour]

Yet if even one single gym in the world teaches it wholisticly, it's a style in that place, even by buddies own definition.

If it exists as a style in a place, it exists.

True enough. My point was we could argue that's not "MMA, the style" but an amalgamation of other styles (just as we could with Shojin-ryu). It's somewhat a matter of perception, and not terribly important, either way. If someone said what I teach is just an amalgamation of NGA and some other stuff rather than a separate style, I'd be okay with that - it's a reasonable description. Of course, we could also argue that "an amalgamation of NGA and some other stuff" is just the definition of what the style Shojin-ryu is. We could do the same with MMA.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

@gpseymour i think youre right that a typical MMA fighter could pick up other things quicker and use them more effectively but if they dont have those skills they can make simple easily made mistakes that can cost them dearly that some self defense programs address right away for beginner students. Being a good fighter definitely gives them an edge but many self defense scenarios factor in more than fighting ability.

And there are stories / articles of such things happening.

 

[Martial D]

True enough. My point was we could argue that's not "MMA, the style" but an amalgamation of other styles (just as we could with Shojin-ryu). It's somewhat a matter of perception, and not terribly important, either way. If someone said what I teach is just an amalgamation of NGA and some other stuff rather than a separate style, I'd be okay with that - it's a reasonable description. Of course, we could also argue that "an amalgamation of NGA and some other stuff" is just the definition of what the style Shojin-ryu is. We could do the same with MMA.

This is really a language issue. It could have been called just cage fighting, or pit fighting, or something else. MMA stick. So people focus on the word mixed.

If another word for it would have settled on, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@gpseymour i think youre right that a typical MMA fighter could pick up other things quicker and use them more effectively but if they dont have those skills they can make simple easily made mistakes that can cost them dearly that some self defense programs address right away for beginner students. Being a good fighter definitely gives them an edge but many self defense scenarios factor in more than fighting ability.

And there are stories / articles of such things happening.

It's true. It's why folks who train for SD should spend a little time looking at what's different in those situations and contexts. My point was that overall skill level is more important, so an MMA person won't be inherently worse (the term you used) at self-defense. They'll possibly make some errors they wouldn't if they trained a little on those concepts, but they'll typically be significantly better off in all of those areas than the average person. And for overall self-defense, they can be better prepared than some folks who haven't trained well (but have covered those areas).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is really a language issue. It could have been called just cage fighting, or pit fighting, or something else. MMA stick. So people focus on the word mixed.

If another word for it would have settled on, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

If we called it "cage fighting", we would probably not talk about it as a style, but as the competition event.

But then we talk about "boxing" as a specific style, so...

 

[drop bear]

@gpseymour i think youre right that a typical MMA fighter could pick up other things quicker and use them more effectively but if they dont have those skills they can make simple easily made mistakes that can cost them dearly that some self defense programs address right away for beginner students. Being a good fighter definitely gives them an edge but many self defense scenarios factor in more than fighting ability.

And there are stories / articles of such things happening.

Well so long as there are stories.

 

[drop bear]

It's true. It's why folks who train for SD should spend a little time looking at what's different in those situations and contexts. My point was that overall skill level is more important, so an MMA person won't be inherently worse (the term you used) at self-defense. They'll possibly make some errors they wouldn't if they trained a little on those concepts, but they'll typically be significantly better off in all of those areas than the average person. And for overall self-defense, they can be better prepared than some folks who haven't trained well (but have covered those areas).

There are quite a few wild misconceptions that get used.

Like for example MMA has less access to people who engaged in self defense than RBSD.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My only issue with MMA as a style is that they stole the name from me. Now I have to find a word besides mixed martial arts or hybrid martial arts to use if I ever open up my own school.

 

[drop bear]

My only issue with MMA as a style is that they stole the name from me. Now I have to find a word besides mixed martial arts or hybrid martial arts to use if I ever open up my own school.

Unified fighting concepts.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Unified fighting concepts.

Cool. Then i can cash in on the UFC entirely by accident

 

[dvcochran]

The debate is whether they're doing MMA (a completely separate thing) or a combination of things. It's a reasonable question that doesn't have a definitive answer. It's like asking whether I teach Shojin-ryu, or mainline NGA with some Judo/FMA/boxing/BJJ. I can argue both sides of that, because it doesn't really matter which we call it, so long as we all know what it is.

In the case of MMA, I think it gets more vague, because there are some places that do teach what I consider MMA (as a style), and others that specifically teach the component styles, plus how to use them together for MMA competition. So I'd argue sometimes it's a style, and sometimes it's just the competition the gym trains folks for.

In that vein, the same can be said for some TKD gyms. Purely sport and nothing else.

 

[Buka]

@Buka im speaking nothing of their raw fighting ability but i do not believe that it makes them inherently better at self defense and in some ways makes them worse

a few examples

• MMA fighters are well...trained to fight, whereas situational avoidance and verbal self defense can end a fight before it begins
• their fighting abilities are tailored to one on one in the ring not one one three in a cement parking lot filled with cars at night (all elements that change tactic needing to be used)
• they train to be in top performance and take a licking but a knife or gun doesnt care how many punches you can take

I hear you, brother. But I think you're thinking of MMA gyms that train MMA fighters for competitions in MMA. I'm thinking more along the lines of MMA style fight training done in a martial arts schools as part of their regularly scheduled training. Before anyone says that doesn't exist, it does, especially over the last twenty five years.

One of the best things MMA training has going for it is the level of resistance they encounter and use every day. Every single day of their careers in the Arts. Not having any resistance in training can make for some scary realizations in the actual field when facing danger, especially life threatening danger.

As for guns, which I loathe with a passion, I've been carrying one for a really long time, both in my career and in my private life. I think gun training in Martial Arts schools need a lot of help. Not from other Martial Artists or Arts, but from combat firearms instructors. Most don't usually seek out that avenue. Which is too bad, there's a lot of resources readily available, and quite easy to tap into.

I also believe that ninety five percent of knife training in dojos is not helpful, it's hurtful.

 

[drop bear]

One of the best things MMA training has going for it is the level of resistance they encounter and use every day. Every single day of their careers in the Arts. Not having any resistance in training can make for some scary realizations in the actual field when facing danger, especially life threatening danger.

It is the level of experimentation available.

So say you do wing chun there is nothing stopping you from doing wing chun in MMA. I have sparred for standing arm bars just to see if I can make restraints work. And where I will get smashed in the head.

And that means you can find the elements that work and the ones that don't without having to rely on stories.

And that is a super important base to work from.

 

[JP3]

I also believe that ninety five percent of knife training in dojos is not helpful, it's hurtful.

I can get on board with that. I'm no expert with blades at all, but I do pay attention and my brain works most of the time. A lot of what people have said in dojos/dojangs around North America where I've trained I've sort of stored up in my gray stuff, and cogitated upon it from time to time. Either I didn't understand the "how" of what it was they were saying to do, which is possible, or what they were doing didn't work at all and didn't make any sense.

At OKC's Windsong Dojo there are a couple retired ex-special forces guys, one of which grew up in Manila while his dad was working there, before he grew up and enlisted. This guy knew knives and blade combat and has the scars you can see from it. It's nothing at all like what I was originally taught, what that guy does. Very arnis, but with the specops training and expertise on top of it. Scary dude. Nice guy, though. Very, very gentle judo player... one of those guys you can't really feel the kazushi he puts on you, but you go where he wants you to go.

 

[Buka]

I think that anyone who spends a couple decades training in the Martial Arts creates their own custom Martial Art.