Contradictions In The Martial Arts

[Darren]

It is my belief it takes years to learn one technique, you may be able to do the technique’s but It has to be so ingrained that you dream about it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It is my belief it takes years to learn one technique, you may be able to do the technique’s but It has to be so ingrained that you dream about it.

Besides learning technique X, you still have to learn what if your opponent counters with technique A, or counters with technique B. You then have to learn how to counter technique A with technique Y, or counter technique B with technique Z. Technique X is only the root of a tree. You have to train the whole tree when it branches out.

 

[isshinryuronin]

You have to train the whole tree when it branches out.

Too many branches. Concentrate on the trunk.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Too many branches. Concentrate on the trunk.

But that's only the beginner level training.

For example, your technique is side kick. What if your opponent blocks your side kick and make your body to spin to your right, or spin to your left?

 

[marvin8]

But that's only the beginner level training.

For example, your technique is side kick. What if your opponent blocks your side kick and make your body to spin to your right, or spin to your left?

In Zhang Weili vs Joanna, Weili side kicks, steps back and spins to the right backfist KO. A not uncommon counter.

https://imgur.com/1uoSgMK

 

[TKD Jonsey]

I remember 34 years ago when I started martial arts that black belt was the ultimate prize to achieve. 1st Dan SHOULD be hard for someone to obtain. That doesn’t mean it’s not a beginning of the journey.

 

[Hot Lunch]

The history of the belt system goes back way before Kano's time, he was just famous for incorporating it into Judo.

Until you can give a name and date, you are wrong.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I remember 34 years ago when I started martial arts that black belt was the ultimate prize to achieve. 1st Dan SHOULD be hard for someone to obtain. That doesn’t mean it’s not a beginning of the journey.

Jigoro Kano didn't see it as the beginning. He specifically adopted the system used by Japanese swimmers, where the black band distinguished the advanced from... the beginners. I think I said this before: the notion of "black belt being the beginning" is something that's said to encourage people to continue training after earning it. There are better ways to convey that message, namely "use or lose." Very few things are like learning to ride a bike, and martial arts is certainly not one of them.

 

[TKD Jonsey]

Yes sir and I don’t have an issue with that. Differently philosophy on the meaning is ok with me but I’ll stick with black belt being a beginning.

 

[Darren]

Jigoro Kano didn't see it as the beginning. He specifically adopted the system used by Japanese swimmers, where the black band distinguished the advanced from... the beginners. I think I said this before: the notion of "black belt being the beginning" is something that's said to encourage people to continue training after earning it. There are better ways to convey that message, namely "use or lose." Very few things are like learning to ride a bike, and martial arts is certainly not one of them.

Have a gi top from when I trained 30 years ago and received gi bottoms too, the contrast between the gi top and new gi pants is noticeable being the top is dark compared to the bottoms just don’t know if I can combine the years total that I have been at it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In Zhang Weili vs Joanna, Weili side kicks, steps back and spins to the right backfist KO. A not uncommon counter.

https://imgur.com/1uoSgMK

This is why I believe side kick, spin back fist should be recorded in the form.



If your opponent spin you the other direction, a side kick followed by a neck chop can be a good combo.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is why I believe side kick, spin back fist should be recorded in the form.



If your opponent spin you the other direction, a side kick followed by a neck chop can be a good combo.

Are you going to record every possible combination in forms?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you going to record every possible combination in forms?

Not techniques, only grammar. The grammar for those 2 videos is to "use kick to set up punch".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not techniques, only grammar. The grammar for those 2 videos is to "use kick to set up punch".

Okay, that's reasonable. You could get bits of grammar like that into a relatively small number of forms, with basic techniques included.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Okay, that's reasonable. You could get bits of grammar like that into a relatively small number of forms, with basic techniques included.

Other grammar (strategy) can be:

- Guide your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm.
- Attack your opponent's leading leg. When he steps back, you then attack his other leg.
- Use pull to set up push, or the other way around.
- Attack linear, then attack circular, or the other way around.
- Use line to counter circle. Use circle to counter line.
- Get both of your opponent's legs if you can, otherwise, get one leg first and get the other leg afterward.
- Move yourself out of your opponent's attacking path, give him plenty space, and lead him into the emptiness.
- Fight in your opponent's territory instead of to fight your own territory.
- Interrupt your opponent's power generation and speed generation in the early stage.
- Lead your opponent into some areas that you are more familiar with than he does.
- Try to obtain a clinch ASAP.
- It's better to be on top than to be on the bottom. It's better to be inside than to be on the outside.
- Shaking is the best strategy to deal with a big and strong opponent.
- Don't allow your opponent to put weight on his leading leg.
- If your opponent punches/kicks you, you run him down. If your opponent does nothing, you still run him down.
- ...

 

[isshinryuronin]

Other grammar (strategy) can be:

- Guide your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm.
- Attack your opponent's leading leg. When he steps back, you then attack his other leg.
- Use pull to set up push, or the other way around.
- Attack linear, then attack circular, or the other way around.
- Use line to counter circle. Use circle to counter line.
- Get both of your opponent's legs if you can, otherwise, get one leg first and get the other leg afterward.
- Move yourself out of your opponent's attacking path, give him plenty space, and lead him into the emptiness.
- Fight in your opponent's territory instead of to fight your own territory.
- Interrupt your opponent's power generation and speed generation in the early stage.
- Lead your opponent into some areas that you are more familiar with than he does.
- Try to obtain a clinch ASAP.
- It's better to be on top than to be on the bottom. It's better to be inside than to be on the outside.
- Shaking is the best strategy to deal with a big and strong opponent.
- Don't allow your opponent to put weight on his leading leg.
- If your opponent punches/kicks you, you run him down. If your opponent does nothing, you still run him down.
- ...

I think you're expecting too much out of kata. In one real sense, (karate) kata was not designed to teach one how to free fight, though it does contain many fighting techniques and the tactics inherent in their application. I believe their origins lay in being a series of preset responses to specific common attacks in accordance with that style's doctrine. So, it does reflect the style's approach to self-defense. The practicality and perfection of these responses were developed with partner two-man drills.

In fact, IMO, kata was not meant to "teach" much at all. It does however provide a framework (template) for the student to further explore its possibilities. Teaching was the job of the instructor! Kata was to practice and remember some of the teacher's lessons as well as their execution.

Free fighting (jiyu kumite) was learned from sparring. Such fighting cannot rely just on preset responses since there are way too many physical and tactical variables. So, while there are a number of kata techniques that can be applied to free fighting, relying on just kata to teach this is asking too much.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think you're expecting too much out of kata. In one real sense, (karate) kata was not designed to teach one how to free fight, though it does contain many fighting techniques and the tactics inherent in their application.

Without recording strategies in your form, how will you be able to maintain it? Write a book? Put on video?

IMO, to record valuable information in your form is the most natural way to do it.

It makes sense that when you

- are young, you train the forms that your teacher taught you.
- get older, you train the form that you created yourself.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think I said this before: the notion of "black belt being the beginning" is something that's said to encourage people to continue training after earning it.

But most people do keep training after earning a black belt, even if they don't care much about advancing more in rank (2nd degree, 3rd degree, ect.) they will still keep training at the dojo. As I've stated before I have occasionally seen students drop out after making it to black belt but it's extremely rare. Most people are going to keep going to the dojo after getting a black belt and I can tell you from my own experience when you make it that far you want to see just how much further you can go, not necessarily in terms of rank but in terms of skill. Most people who take up the martial arts will in fact drop out way before getting close to black belt, from what I've seen, but people who make it that far will 99 precent of the time keep going.

 

[ap Oweyn]

So are you a college professor?

No. I'm an academic counselor and adviser working in higher education. And a doctoral student in educational psychology.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Jigoro Kano didn't see it as the beginning. He specifically adopted the system used by Japanese swimmers, where the black band distinguished the advanced from... the beginners. I think I said this before: the notion of "black belt being the beginning" is something that's said to encourage people to continue training after earning it.

In addition to responses I've made earlier, I would also like to point out that just because you're wearing a black belt doesn't mean you're of the highest rank and in fact black isn't even always the highest color. There are styles with higher colors such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. In Brazilian Jiu Jitsu they've got the red belt which is above the black belt. When you first start wearing the black belt you are a first degree black belt or 1st dan and after that there's 2nd dan, 3rd dan, and so forth usually all the way up to 10th dan, so when you look at all the dan ranks you could say that first degree black belt is a rather low rank.

There are better ways to convey that message, namely "use or lose." Very few things are like learning to ride a bike, and martial arts is certainly not one of them.

So how is learning to ride a bike different from learning most other stuff, including martial arts?