Combat Hapkido With Grand Master J. Pelligrini!

[terryl965]

Ah yes, Exile. More of your brilliant insight:uhyeah:

Brian distinctly said he had not trained with Pellegrini either, so I figure another one who had not been in direct contact with him wouldn't hurt. I can watch a YouTube clip and get a feel for someone's overall technique. Unlike you, I've had more than 6 years experience.

Again, not impressed by what I saw. Sorry for the easily impressed among you.

Well YM if you are not inpressed with him then go to a seminar and become his personal UKE, because I have been on the recieving end a few times and it is not nice to be there. I wish you would stop passing judgement on Exile, he does deserve some respect and he has six plus years and is a BB. I would love to see you stay on topic just once and not go on about Exile.

 

[exile]

Well YM if you are not inpressed with him then go to a seminar and become his personal UKE, because I have been on the recieving end a few times and it is not nice to be there.

This is something I too noticed at the seminar near Cleveland that Drac and Father Greek organized. The guys who served as uke to Gm. Pelligrini were, as I mentioned before, not at all compliant 'demo-partners'. They were military guys, big and... how can I put this... well aware, clearly, of how they might look in the eyes of their fellow soldiers based on their performance. They were not going to give anything away, is what I'm saying. And these were not just big guys, but experienced as well: they were far from novices in hand-to-hand combat.

But one of the points that Gm.P emphasized, repeatedly, was that size is irrelevant so far as Combat-HKD strategic thinking is concerned because the essence of C-HKD thinking involves, ultimately, forcing moves involving joints, and regardless of how big you are, or strong, the correct application of physical forces at the right joints will bring you down to the ground. The first principle is, don't get hit—and for that, the Fence-based defensive positioning is perfect: any strike coming into a well-maintained Fence configuration in effect delivers the striking limb into the 'safekeeping' lol of the defender, while giving the latter the choice of going inside or going outside. Surrendering these key combat assets virtually guarantees that a well-trained CHKDist can take the assailant over, because once the initial pin, lock or armbar is established, everything works like a forced mate in chess—and the ukes who worked with Gm.P at that seminar found themselves in that situation repeatedly. I was there, very close, and I could see—being there, as I say—that they were being anything but cooperative, something that might not have come through on a camcording (only one of very, very many reasons why you can't necessarily tell bugger-all about what's happening in a MA situation by watching a video of it, in case anyone's interested :angel. Gm.P is not a big guy at all—he's lean, sinewy and average height or less—but by gaw, he knows exactly what he's doing and exactly what to do in each case.

Since second hand information, including the grossly misleading medium of YouTube clips, is so inferior to actual firsthand exposure in athletic activities, I really urge people, even those committed (as I am) to a striking art strategic approach, to try to attend a seminar or two with Gm. Pellegrini—even if you don't want to do CHKD as your base art, the controlling moves shown are brilliant for setting up the finishing strikes that you're looking for. And Gm. P. is a skilled instructor as well as a virtuoso technician—it was not just great, but great fun, at his seminar. I mean to get to another one, come what may!

 

[Drac]

Ah yes, Exile. More of your brilliant insight:uhyeah:

Brian distinctly said he had not trained with Pellegrini either, so I figure another one who had not been in direct contact with him wouldn't hurt. I can watch a YouTube clip and get a feel for someone's overall technique. Unlike you, I've had more than 6 years experience.

Again, not impressed by what I saw. Sorry for the easily impressed among you.

So just by watching a tape you can tell if a technique will work???:BSmeter:

 

[terryl965]

So just by watching a tape you can tell if a technique will work???:BSmeter:

Yes Drac YM has had the superman effect, which we all know is he knows more than everybody else.:angel:

 

[exile]

Yes Drac YM has had the superman effect, which we all know is he knows more than everybody else.:angel:

I can just see Gm.P reading the post you're talking about, shrugging and turning his hands up with that great 'Well, waddya gonna do??' expression of his... this is another aspect of his work that I think needs to be pointed out, in response to Brian's query, beyond his technical and teaching skill: he's a genuinely reasonable, down-to-earth, amiable human being, who wears his enormous knowledge and skill lightly. He's not trying to intimidate you, he's secure in who he is and what he can do. The last thing he would think of doing, if you asked him a question—and believe me, we asked him plenty at that seminar—would be to give some rubbish about 'Do it this way because I've been doing MAs for 40 years, I'm the founder of a certified Hapkido Kwan, a Master+ BB rank (KKW certified) in Taekwondo, and etc etc'. He answered every question that was asked with a technical explanation: do it this way because it works better than doing this other way, or that way, given the angles, the direction the attacker's momentum is going in, the fact that you need to get your own leg out of the way if you want him to go to the ground without taking you with him, etc.

In other words, he talked about the logic of the techniques, not how important his 40+ years in the art made him—an approach which displays wisdom, maturity and common sense all at once, I'd say!

 

[Father Greek]

I have been to a great many seminars with GMP and can honestly say that I take away something new each and every time. GMP is not the kind of man that needs to be on center stage at all times. Many of his seminars include Masters of other styles as well. His basic philosophy is, the more tools in the tool box, the more prepared you will be for the job at hand. As a practioner and Senior Instructor of Combat Hapkido, I find that the concepts and movements are very flexible and responsive to changing situations. As we all know, when it comes to the real stuff hitting the fan, NOTHING IS SCRIPTED OR STATIC! I am a firm believer in the Combat Hapkido System and I respect GMP as a true teacher and a true gentleman. We do not agree on everything as is the way it should be. There are some techniques that I would never consider using but at the same time these same techniques provide valuable insight into many other areas.

 

[Dana]

"not how important his 40+ years in the art made him"

First of all, I really am not taking sides. I have been personally at a JP seminar and I do remember when JP was just TKD, not HKD, and that was in the mid-1980s. I went to one of his seminars when he was still with the Garrison group (shortly after his first TKDT cover) in 1990/91 and did work with him at times. At that time, he was a provisional or new 2nd dan HKD and did not really impress folks who had a Hapkido background. That was 20 years ago and I'm sure he has gotten better. JP is a guy you either love or hate and I'm sure he is fine with all that; he has found his own nitch.

Dana

 

[Drac]

"not how important his 40+ years in the art made him"

First of all, I really am not taking sides. I have been personally at a JP seminar and I do remember when JP was just TKD, not HKD, and that was in the mid-1980s. I went to one of his seminars when he was still with the Garrison group (shortly after his first TKDT cover) in 1990/91 and did work with him at times. At that time, he was a provisional or new 2nd dan HKD and did not really impress folks who had a Hapkido background. That was 20 years ago and I'm sure he has gotten better. JP is a guy you either love or hate and I'm sure he is fine with all that; he has found his own nitch.

Dana

Bravo Dana...Well said...

 

[Drac]

This is something I too noticed at the seminar near Cleveland that Drac and Father Greek organized. The guys who served as uke to Gm. Pelligrini were, as I mentioned before, not at all compliant 'demo-partners'. They were military guys, big and... how can I put this... well aware, clearly, of how they might look in the eyes of their fellow soldiers based on their performance. They were not going to give anything away, is what I'm saying. And these were not just big guys, but experienced as well: they were far from novices in hand-to-hand combat.

But one of the points that Gm.P emphasized, repeatedly, was that size is irrelevant so far as Combat-HKD strategic thinking is concerned because the essence of C-HKD thinking involves, Gm.P is not a big guy at all—he's lean, sinewy and average height or less—but by gaw, he knows exactly what he's doing and exactly what to do in each case.

And Gm. P. is a skilled instructor as well as a virtuoso technician—it was not just great, but great fun, at his seminar. I mean to get to another one, come what may!

Those that Exile speak of were Marines, they embodied everything you think of when you hear the term badass Marines..Tall and muscular, it didnt matter they went down easily..The surprised looks on their faces said it all..How did this tall skinny guy do it that?? I myself am 6'1" and about 260 and have been in and out of the arts about 30 years..The first time I Uke'd for GMP I (despite knowing how to fall ) still hit the floor like a ton of bricks and about as gracefull as an elephant on roller skates...That's what hooked me...

 

[Drac]

GMP is not the kind of man that needs to be on center stage at all times. Many of his seminars include Masters of other styles as well. time these same techniques provide valuable insight into many other areas.

He had George Dillman at one and I had heard all the negativity about him and watched him do a few techniques and said well maybe it will work on that little skinny Uke, but not on me..So I volunteered to Uke..I have been hit by the best and NOTHING prepaired me for this, a slight tap and my arm went numb... Uncle (Willem de Thouars) Bill is another regular at our seminars..Ask Father Greek what happened when he asked Uncle Bill to hit him...

 

[jim777]

I haven't had the pleasure of being at one of GM Pellegrini's seminars, but I have gone to a few seminars with Master Brian McCain here in New Jersey, and I have to say I would absolutely, positively be studying Combat Hapkido if it were just a little closer to me. I hope I can study it full time in the future. As much as I like the kata of traditional Japanese/Korean karate styles, CH really impressed me as a style.

 

[Burnerbob]

Watching GM Pelligrini's videos, Seeing Richard Barathy in magazines, never meeting O'Sensei Urban, but YM has a lot to say about these and other Martial Arts greats.
I have has the pleasure of meeting all of the above except YM.
And for information I have been around Martial Arts since my junior high school days. I am sixty years old.

 

[Drac]

A visit to the ICHF webpage http://www.dsihq.com will list all the schools and upcoming seminars...Don't be fooled by imitators..If you have any real concerns you can call them..The phone is usually answered by Master David Rivas or GMP's wife..

 

[Hapkidoman]

I personaly have first hand knowledge of CH having trained in it for many years. It is a good system, but it is what it is, and what it is not is "Hapkido" . It is a system derived from many other systems. It is not a "Martial Art", but rather a self defense system. Which is what it claims to be. As far as Pellegrini goes, he is no different than the head of any other large and successful organization, there is a certain amount of ego, but I think that is to be expected from someone in his position. I am not condoning this, just accepting that it exist. I have been to seminars where I have heard him criticize other systems, but only in respect to their effectiveness in real selfdefense circumstances, and in some cases I would agree that some systems to lack effectiveness in some cases. It is certainly ok to think that, I just don't think you should say it, especially in a public forum, where you are teching. Just my opinion.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Firstly, I'd like to recommend that this thread be moved to the hapkido section, as it is a hapkido topic.

I personaly have first hand knowledge of CH having trained in it for many years. It is a good system, but it is what it is, and what it is not is "Hapkido" . It is a system derived from many other systems. It is not a "Martial Art", but rather a self defense system. Which is what it claims to be.

I agree that it is a self defense system, but how, in your opinion, is it not a martial art?

Given that CHKD has plenty of martial application, I'm not sure where you are coming from with this. The 'art' in martial arts is not the 'art' in fine arts (such as painting, music, or dance). It is 'art' as in the 'art' of war, or more specifically, the science of war.

Now, one can debate whether or not self defense is 'martial' but using the term martial to refer to defense, be it of one's self or of others, is how the term martial is used in most martial arts.

So in that regard, I would consider CHKD as much a martial art as anything else.

As far as Pellegrini goes, he is no different than the head of any other large and successful organization, there is a certain amount of ego, but I think that is to be expected from someone in his position. I am not condoning this, just accepting that it exist. I have been to seminars where I have heard him criticize other systems, but only in respect to their effectiveness in real selfdefense circumstances, and in some cases I would agree that some systems to lack effectiveness in some cases. It is certainly ok to think that, I just don't think you should say it, especially in a public forum, where you are teching. Just my opinion.

So long as he is not denigrating other systems and is supporting his statements with sound technical reasoning, I'm not sure that I agree. People take up martial arts for a variety of reasons, and not all of them specifically for self defense or fighting.

Some arts are also taught in such a way that their martial application is divorced from the curriculum. For example, Tai chi has martial application, but if you go to the community center and take the fitness Tai chi class, you will get very little 'martial' in the art. But the people taking that class are not looking for 'martial.' They're looking for the life benefits of Tai chi and those classes are designed accordingly.

Some people just like to compete and win trophies/medals. Kendo is a great competitive art for that and has kata with archaic martial application (swords), but unless you walk around with a sword, the self defense value of kendo is rather lacking. Then there's kyudo; won't win trophies, but you'll make targets sprout arrows pretty darned well. But unless you carry your daikyu and a quiver of arrows, don't expect to use it for self defense.

Some people are looking for an art with a lot of spirituality. Others want to enroll their kids in something that builds character and is taught in a place that will pick up, watch over, and drop off their kids after school.

When I spoke with GMP on the phone last summer, he said that all martial arts have value. But that value is not the same value in all cases. He is being very up front about what the value of his system is. Because he is promoting his system (those seminars are designed to promote the art), I would expect a degree of self promotion. It is not unusual for people promoting a product to do brand X comparisons.

Is it right? So long as brand X is not misrepresented, I don't see it as wrong. Is it tasteful? Can be. Depends on the context. Not having been to the seminars you attended, I will not judge them specifically.

Daniel