Why Hwarang Do is not Hapkido

[miguksaram]

JBL was an 8th dan in HKD? Who promoted him? When did this happen? If he only studied so long with GM Choi and then went off with his secret art only taught to the monks and then handed down to him, when did he have time for his 8th dan?

I'm not saying isn't capable of putting the hurt on someone, but saying he is an 8th dan in HKD sort of conficts with what he claims to do.

 

[shesulsa]

JBL was an 8th dan in HKD? Who promoted him? When did this happen? If he only studied so long with GM Choi and then went off with his secret art only taught to the monks and then handed down to him, when did he have time for his 8th dan?

I'm not saying isn't capable of putting the hurt on someone, but saying he is an 8th dan in HKD sort of conficts with what he claims to do.

Hm. I'm pretty sure it was 8th. Perhaps we can do some digging around in the old HRD threads here.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I'm pretty sure Shesulsa is right on this. I would also say that his skills in that area are exceptional and always have been.

 

[zDom]

Today there is not *a* style called Hapkido, there never were, and there never will be. The styles are just too different.

This is something I have come to believe as well — that hapkido is/has become as generic and general as "karate" and that you should always be more specific, i.e., "Shotokan karate" or "Gojo Ryu karate."

I almost always refer to the art I study as "Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido" (Lee H. Park's hapkido — which is from but different than the Korean Musulkwan hapkido Park himself studied (not much, but different).

 

[miguksaram]

I'm pretty sure Shesulsa is right on this. I would also say that his skills in that area are exceptional and always have been.

I'm not saying he isn't, but I am curious as to who promoted him to that rank. If he has been involved in HKD for that long then I would think it would throw a ratchet in his "I got my art from a secret buddhist monk" story.

 

[miguksaram]

This is something I have come to believe as well — that hapkido is/has become as generic and general as "karate" and that you should always be more specific, i.e., "Shotokan karate" or "Gojo Ryu karate."

I agree, that HKD has become more of a system than a style. No longer do you just study HKD, you study Combat HKD or Sin Moo HKD or Kuk Suk HKD.

 

[iron_ox]

I'm not saying he isn't, but I am curious as to who promoted him to that rank. If he has been involved in HKD for that long then I would think it would throw a ratchet in his "I got my art from a secret buddhist monk" story.

Hello all,

To add another perspective. I trained with a master that began training with Choi Dojunim in 1949, he received his 8th dan in 1979. He lived his whole life in Daegu, where Choi Dojunim lived. Rim Jung Bae, a well known student of Choi Dojunim, was only awared a 7th Dan, as was Chung Kee Tae (Toronto). It is, with these and other examples, the case that Choi Dojunim did not give rang at that level to anyone that did not train with him long term, and never gave anything above 7th Dan to anyone that did not live in Daegu - at least that I have ever been able to find.

Choi Dojunim ALWAYS issued certificates, if Joo Bang Lee was given an 8th Dan by Choi Dojunim, Lee should have a cert. without that, at least, his claim is HIGHLY suspect.

Again, and nothing at all against Lee, but the only person reporting him receiving an 8th Dan is him...and frankly, his claim in articles to have been any "head of Hapkido" is ridiculous.

Just another perspective.

 

[miguksaram]

Hello all,

Choi Dojunim ALWAYS issued certificates, if Joo Bang Lee was given an 8th Dan by Choi Dojunim, Lee should have a cert. without that, at least, his claim is HIGHLY suspect.

Thank you for that input. That is what I am trying to figure out. Ji Dojunim or Rim Kwangjangnim are two of the highest ranking students of Choi Dojunim. So if Choi, Ji or Rim didn't issue the cert then where did he get it? It seems those would be the only qualified people who could rank him.

 

[iron_ox]

Thank you for that input. That is what I am trying to figure out. Ji Dojunim or Rim Kwangjangnim are two of the highest ranking students of Choi Dojunim. So if Choi, Ji or Rim didn't issue the cert then where did he get it? It seems those would be the only qualified people who could rank him.

OK, not to quibble, but Ji Han Jae got a confirmed third dan, MAYBE as high as 6th Dan (never seen the cert myself, except the 3rd), Rim Jung Bae, 7th Dan.

4 men got 9th Dan from Choi Dojunim. Chang, Chin Il, (Current Dojunim), Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo, Grandmaster Kim Yun Sang, Grandmaster Lee (deceased).

There are SEVERAL men in Daegu that received 8th Dan, but again, they lived and trained in Daegu.

Hope this helps. Probably just adds to the confusion...

 

[zDom]

Then again, Choi himself reportedly "lost" his certification.

While I personally think certification is nice to have, it is not the end-all and be-all of hapkido.

Rank, for that matter, is more of an indication of longevity in a style and/or knowledge of a certain curriculum than a reflection of a practitioner's skill.

I'm not from Ji's lineage but having seen video of him in action, I consider him to be as real as it gets — whether he has 3rd, 6th or 20th degree certification. His "kung-fu" pretty good

 

[miguksaram]

Again, it is not a question of skill, just a question of honesty. I don't doubt that JBL is very technical, but there just seems to be a forest of inaccuracies surrounding his background.

 

[shesulsa]

Again, it is not a question of skill, just a question of honesty. I don't doubt that JBL is very technical, but there just seems to be a forest of inaccuracies surrounding his background.

I think that horse has been beaten here before.

 

[miguksaram]

I think that horse has been beaten here before.

True...but the horse isn't dead yet...Plus I just joined the party.

 

[miguksaram]

I think that horse has been beaten here before.

Yes, but the horse isn't dead yet, and I just joined the party..so you know...I'm whippin' away

 

[arnisador]

I think that horse has been beaten here before.

At this point that's probably true of most topics on this board!

 

[shesulsa]

True...but the horse isn't dead yet...Plus I just joined the party.

Really? I thought you said you were here before?

 

[miguksaram]

Really? I thought you said you were here before?

I was, but not this particular thread. I was checking the archives for some of my past threads. The only one I could find was called BBB for the Martial Arts that I started a while back.

Now if you can just point me in the direction that horse....

 

[ancient warrior]

in my opinion there are very many differences between hrd & hkd, i am a blue sash in hrd & w/ tae soo do bb and i am now studying for my bb in hapkido, both are very effective if taught correctly ,and they are very similar, the hapkido school also teaches tae kwon do but it is different than other tkd schools training ive seen. i believe Joe Bang lees hrd is more martial art than than the martial sport taught in hapkido or tae kwon do today good luck train hard.......a.w.

 

[miguksaram]

in my opinion there are very many differences between hrd & hkd, i am a blue sash in hrd & w/ tae soo do bb and i am now studying for my bb in hapkido, both are very effective if taught correctly ,and they are very similar, the hapkido school also teaches tae kwon do but it is different than other tkd schools training ive seen. i believe Joe Bang lees hrd is more martial art than than the martial sport taught in hapkido or tae kwon do today good luck train hard.......a.w.

Yes, there would be similarities because HRD stems from HKD. JBL added in some other arts, but the base is still HKD. What do you mean by martial sport in HKD?

 

[ancient warrior]

Yes, there would be similarities because HRD stems from HKD. JBL added in some other arts, but the base is still HKD. What do you mean by martial sport in HKD?

what i meant by hrd being more martial is that the follow ups in techniques are more advanced and are more harmful to your attacker than what i have learned from hkd which seems more sport like...dont get me wrong they are great martial training hrd seems so much deeper ...... i.m.h.o................