Collecting Training by the Famous

[drop bear]

Having attended somewhere between 80-100 martial arts seminars over the last 38 years, I have to disagree with that. I still practice and use techniques and principles that I learned in seminars decades ago.



As you might expect from my previous posts, I have opinions on the subject.

Your last paragraph, I’m in full agreement with. I’ve been to a number of seminars where the only direct benefits I got were the fun of working out, meeting new friends, and getting some insight into how other people train.

I’ve also been to a number of seminars that I got significant direct benefit from. Of course, I still had to train what I learned in the weeks and months and years after the seminar.

To address your concerns about why you couldn’t just learn the same things in your regular school, I have a few answers.

The first scenario is one where the art you are training in is new to an area and there aren’t a lot of highly qualified instructors around.

When I started training ninjutsu, there were perhaps half a dozen black belts in the United States and none of them lived less than an 8 hour drive from where I did. So we had a small club that would bring in one of those black belts for a seminar every few months, and in-between we would practice whatever we had learned.

When I started training BJJ, there were some really good black belt instructors in the United States, but they mostly lived on the West Coast. I was in Ohio, where we had maybe one purple belt and a handful of blue belts. You better believe I made it to every BJJ seminar that I could and practiced everything I learned.

So, now BJJ has grown to the point where I’m one of about 20 black belts in my local metro area. Why would I go to a seminar now?

Well the first reason, as you allude to, is that sometimes the seminar instructor is just more skilled, more knowledgeable, or a better teacher than I am or my coach is. Despite what you seem to imply in your second paragraph, that doesn’t mean that my school is somehow deficient. It’s just that there are levels to this stuff. Some people are just at the top of their field worldwide and have information and insights and training methods that you won’t necessarily find in most schools. We get experience with these instructors and bring it back to improve our daily training.

Another reason can be just to get a different perspective on training and techniques. Every BJJ instructor I’ve worked with has their own individual way of moving and interpreting the art. Even my peers who trained at the same gym with me all have their own personal style which is different from mine and from each other. Sometimes having the chance to train with someone who comes from a different background will trigger “aha!” moments for me.

Sometimes the instructor might not be more knowledgeable overall than my coach or my peers or other local instructors, but they are especially knowledgeable in one particular area that I want to learn more about.

I will say that my preference is strongly in favor of seminars where the instructor goes deep into a limited area of study, focusing on how to make things really work, as compared to seminars where the instructor just dumps a ton of random techniques or combinations on the students with no effort to help them understand the information, retain it, or make it functional. I’ve been to seminars with some famous instructors that definitely fell into the latter category.

Bjj is also very big though. So you could be getting competent instruction and still be missing out on large sections of the art.

And why you get these specialists.

 

[drop bear]

You assume someone will be capable effectively remembering what they learned to practice effectively.

I understand that the science of memory says they most likely won’t remember enough to practice properly and build effective competency

It depends how much worth you place on what you retained.

If a certain detail lifts your game. And you use that detail consistently. Then it may have been worth the cost. Even if there was 20 other details you didn't absorb on the day.

 

[GojuTommy]

It depends how much worth you place on what you retained.

If a certain detail lifts your game. And you use that detail consistently. Then it may have been worth the cost. Even if there was 20 other details you didn't absorb on the day.

Short term memory is literally just seconds.

Like I said by the time you decide to train again post seminar you’ve already likely forgotten a lot.

Bottom line really is the science behind memory and learning both say that real learning is unlikely to happen as a result of a seminar.

 

[dunc]

A good seminar should give you a new insight/technique etc that has the potential to positively impact your development if you take it away and work on it
You can get new insights from a variety of sources including your own instructor, your training partners, youtube, MartialTalk etc
However, a good seminar will likely be run by someone who has an unusual depth of knowledge and therefore should be able to provide new insights not available to you in your daily life
So in my view the importance of seminars probably depends on the depth of knowledge of your instructor & training group

A bad seminar would be just showing things you already know and work on

 

[drop bear]

Short term memory is literally just seconds.

Like I said by the time you decide to train again post seminar you’ve already likely forgotten a lot.

Bottom line really is the science behind memory and learning both say that real learning is unlikely to happen as a result of a seminar.

I still use moves I learned in seminars from 10 years ago.

 

[drop bear]

Pasha was the last seminar I did. And he tends to go through basic stuff. But with extra details that improve the concept.

He is also good at breaking down these moves. And making sure we knew them.

 

[_Simon_]

Yep I can count on one hand the "famous" or well known martial artists I've trained with haha. But I tell ya, I love seminars, and I have gained an immense amount from them, and some very much have changed how I train to this day.

Even if a seminar gets you to have the thought "ah... I never thought of it like that..." ... worth it. A change in perspective or perception of how you approach training can be powerful.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

How much did you pay for those seminars? Most every seminar I’ve seen people are charging well over $100 for 3-8 hours of training/lecture time. That’s not remotely worth it to me.

It varies. I've been to $100 seminars where I learned less than I could have gotten from a single well-run class from a local instructor. In those cases the benefit was pretty much limited to the whole "meet new people, get exposed to new perspectives" deal. On the other hand I recently paid $40 for a 4 hour seminar with Vlad Koulikov who is an elite world class competitor and an outstanding teacher. I got more than my money's worth from that one.

As I’ve said, for advanced students I see more utility in seminars than for people who don’t qualify as advanced.
Someone who has trained 1 yr will get more out of a seminar than someone who has trained 1 month. Someone who has trained 5 yrs will likely get more than someone who has trained 1 yr.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

How much did you pay for those seminars? Most every seminar I’ve seen people are charging well over $100 for 3-8 hours of training/lecture time. That’s not remotely worth it to me.

How much are you willing to spend for an hour of entertainment? If I go to eat with friends, that's probably around $30 for 2 hours or so-$15 an hour cost. A movie is probably $20 for 1.5-2 hours, assuming I don't buy snacks or drinks. Similar if I go rock climbing.

A seminar is entertainment, that is also (hopefully) skill-building. So $100 for 8 hours is absolutely in that range. 100 for 3 hours would not be, and 300 for 8 hours wouldn't, but looking straight at entertainment per time per money, the price of some seminars is appropriate IMO.

 

[Flying Crane]

Having attended somewhere between 80-100 martial arts seminars over the last 38 years, I have to disagree with that. I still practice and use techniques and principles that I learned in seminars decades ago.



As you might expect from my previous posts, I have opinions on the subject.

Your last paragraph, I’m in full agreement with. I’ve been to a number of seminars where the only direct benefits I got were the fun of working out, meeting new friends, and getting some insight into how other people train.

I’ve also been to a number of seminars that I got significant direct benefit from. Of course, I still had to train what I learned in the weeks and months and years after the seminar.

To address your concerns about why you couldn’t just learn the same things in your regular school, I have a few answers.

The first scenario is one where the art you are training in is new to an area and there aren’t a lot of highly qualified instructors around.

When I started training ninjutsu, there were perhaps half a dozen black belts in the United States and none of them lived less than an 8 hour drive from where I did. So we had a small club that would bring in one of those black belts for a seminar every few months, and in-between we would practice whatever we had learned.

When I started training BJJ, there were some really good black belt instructors in the United States, but they mostly lived on the West Coast. I was in Ohio, where we had maybe one purple belt and a handful of blue belts. You better believe I made it to every BJJ seminar that I could and practiced everything I learned.

So, now BJJ has grown to the point where I’m one of about 20 black belts in my local metro area. Why would I go to a seminar now?

Well the first reason, as you allude to, is that sometimes the seminar instructor is just more skilled, more knowledgeable, or a better teacher than I am or my coach is. Despite what you seem to imply in your second paragraph, that doesn’t mean that my school is somehow deficient. It’s just that there are levels to this stuff. Some people are just at the top of their field worldwide and have information and insights and training methods that you won’t necessarily find in most schools. We get experience with these instructors and bring it back to improve our daily training.

Another reason can be just to get a different perspective on training and techniques. Every BJJ instructor I’ve worked with has their own individual way of moving and interpreting the art. Even my peers who trained at the same gym with me all have their own personal style which is different from mine and from each other. Sometimes having the chance to train with someone who comes from a different background will trigger “aha!” moments for me.

Sometimes the instructor might not be more knowledgeable overall than my coach or my peers or other local instructors, but they are especially knowledgeable in one particular area that I want to learn more about.

I will say that my preference is strongly in favor of seminars where the instructor goes deep into a limited area of study, focusing on how to make things really work, as compared to seminars where the instructor just dumps a ton of random techniques or combinations on the students with no effort to help them understand the information, retain it, or make it functional. I’ve been to seminars with some famous instructors that definitely fell into the latter category.

We are all shaped by our experiences. When I was a capoeirista, we would have a series of seminars every year at the batizado. My teacher would bring in high level teachers from Brazil, which included her contemporaries and her teacher. We usually had fun with them, but afterward I would scratch my head and try to think of something we were taught that was truly new to us. Very little of that. Sometimes the seminar actually felt like a beginner class. I am all about emphasizing the basics and the foundation, but I don’t need to pay a visiting instructor to go over that with me. We did lots of it in regular class, day-in and day-out. The biggest benefit was in seeing how other people play and getting the chance to play with them. But that could all be accomplished in the roda and did not need a seminar.

The whole week leading up to and including the batizado was meant to be a spirit-building and motivating experience. It generally managed to be that, but not always and it sometimes exposed the negative side of some of the participants so for me I started to feel less enthusiasm.

Years later as a kenpo guy I attended a seminar with a rather famous kenpo teacher. He was teaching garbage that would get you prosecuted, as was commented on by some of the other attendants who were LEO or ex-LEO. On top of that there was a real vibe that he was trying to network and get people to join his organization so I felt like I was being sold to. The whole thing was a turn-off. I guess I am glad I paid the money and went because it was an educating experience, a chance to see the negative side of things. It’s too bad that particular education was necessary.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

How much are you willing to spend for an hour of entertainment? If I go to eat with friends, that's probably around $30 for 2 hours or so-$15 an hour cost. A movie is probably $20 for 1.5-2 hours, assuming I don't buy snacks or drinks. Similar if I go rock climbing.

A seminar is entertainment, that is also (hopefully) skill-building. So $100 for 8 hours is absolutely in that range. 100 for 3 hours would not be, and 300 for 8 hours wouldn't, but looking straight at entertainment per time per money, the price of some seminars is appropriate IMO.

I'm pretty much on the same page. I go into a seminar expecting fun and entertainment and then am extra pleased when I get something useful that I can use long term. My price range regarding value for money is roughly the same as yours. If I was rich, I'd probably consider it differently. (I recently started getting Facebook ads for a venue that offers vacation packages for a week at a luxury resort with daily instruction from top instructors. I looked up the price and it was something like $2500 for the week. Well out of my price range, but ... if I were a rich man ... Ya ba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dum)

We are all shaped by our experiences. When I was a capoeirista, we would have a series of seminars every year at the batizado. My teacher would bring in high level teachers from Brazil, which included her contemporaries and her teacher. We usually had fun with them, but afterward I would scratch my head and try to think of something we were taught that was truly new to us. Very little of that. Sometimes the seminar actually felt like a beginner class. I am all about emphasizing the basics and the foundation, but I don’t need to pay a visiting instructor to go over that with me. We did lots of it in regular class, day-in and day-out. The biggest benefit was in seeing how other people play and getting the chance to play with them. But that could all be accomplished in the roda and did not need a seminar.

The whole week leading up to and including the batizado was meant to be a spirit-building and motivating experience. It generally managed to be that, but not always and it sometimes exposed the negative side of some of the participants so for me I started to feel less enthusiasm.

Years later as a kenpo guy I attended a seminar with a rather famous kenpo teacher. He was teaching garbage that would get you prosecuted, as was commented on by some of the other attendants who were LEO or ex-LEO. On top of that there was a real vibe that he was trying to network and get people to join his organization so I felt like I was being sold to. The whole thing was a turn-off. I guess I am glad I paid the money and went because it was an educating experience, a chance to see the negative side of things. It’s too bad that particular education was necessary.

I've had some of the same experiences. The batizados were a lot of fun, but I'm not sure they made that much difference in my development. Fortunately the ones I attended were pretty cheap and I considered them good value for the time and money. I've also been to seminars that were pretty much garbage. Fortunately I've had some really good ones as well. I've got some thoughts on what makes a good seminar, but I think I'll split those off into a separate comment.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm pretty much on the same page. I go into a seminar expecting fun and entertainment and then am extra pleased when I get something useful that I can use long term. My price range regarding value for money is roughly the same as yours. If I was rich, I'd probably consider it differently. (I recently started getting Facebook ads for a venue that offers vacation packages for a week at a luxury resort with daily instruction from top instructors. I looked up the price and it was something like $2500 for the week. Well out of my price range, but ... if I were a rich man ... Ya ba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dum)

I've had some of the same experiences. The batizados were a lot of fun, but I'm not sure they made that much difference in my development. Fortunately the ones I attended were pretty cheap and I considered them good value for the time and money. I've also been to seminars that were pretty much garbage. Fortunately I've had some really good ones as well. I've got some thoughts on what makes a good seminar, but I think I'll split those off into a separate comment.

When I go to seminars, and it's rare, I hope to enjoy what I am doing, but I am there to learn and I am not really there for entertainment. IF it is entertaining, that's great, but it is not why I am there.

Price range matters, but what matters more is how long they are as compared to what I am paying. And I have to tell you, there are a few "BIG" name Taijiquan folks out there, although very talented, I wold not pay to go to, they want WAY to much for a seminar, be that 1 hour, 1 day, 2 or 3 days.

As for bad seminars, I walked out of a few, but luckily those were part of an all day thing, or all weekend thing that was made up of multiple shirt seminars. Been lucky with the longer ones, all were good IMO.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Okay, here are my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts on what factors help make a truly worthwhile seminar. (Followed by some examples from my experience where I name names. Hopefully no one gets offended.)

• How well does the instructor know their subject? Do they have knowledge and insights that I wouldn't get from my daily training?
• How good is the instructor at teaching? Some people have world class skills as a practitioner but suck at pedagogy (and vice versa).
• How good is the actual material being taught for my current purposes? If I'm looking for instruction which will help improve my fighting ability and the art being shown is hot garbage from a combative perspective, then it's not going to help me even if the instruction is good.
• Does my regular training give me the opportunity to practice whatever I learn during the seminar? If I'm a boxer who goes to a Judo seminar and I don't have anybody at my gym who is willing to practice Judo with me, then it doesn't matter how good the teacher was, I won't have a chance to develop any skill in what I was shown.
• Am I personally ready as a martial artist to understand whatever I'm being shown at the seminar? If the instructor is showing some subtle nuance of a specialized technique for a specialized context and I'm still working on developing gross motor skills and don't even understand the position being discussed, then I'm unlikely to get much value out of the experience.
• Does the material being shown fit with my personal skill set, style, and inclinations?

Now to name names with some examples ...

My very first seminar was with Stephen Hayes and I attended a number of sessions with him over the years. In my opinion, his teaching skills were excellent. He did a good job of not only demonstrating the techniques, but communicating the concepts behind them. He set a good pace, giving students enough time to practice the moves, giving feedback, but not spending so much time that participants got bored. He also had an interesting way of thinking about how martial arts practice could provide lessons for one's daily life that still influences me to this day.

On the downside ... by my current standards his skill level was not particularly high. He seemed amazing to me at the time, but I've learned a lot since then. Also the material he taught was not, in my current judgment, particularly good for the stated purpose of self-defense. Since MT has a policy against art-bashing, I'm not going to go any further than that.

I've been to a couple of seminars with Dan Inosanto. I have a ton of respect for his skills and knowledge. I also think that his seminars are not particularly useful for someone wanting to learn what he has to teach. At the last seminar I attended by him a few years ago, he would demo a complex combination (8-10 moves long), give us all of 3-4 minutes to practice it, then go on to the next sequence while most of the students were still trying to figure out if they had all the movements in the right order. There was zero explanation of the concepts, no explanation of how to make any of the movements functional, just a huge brain dump of long technique sequences with no time to commit them to memory or write them down for later study.

I've been to a fair number of seminars with Carlson Gracie Jr, because he is my instructor's instructor and I want to be supportive of the association whenever he comes to town. Carlson is obviously very knowledgeable and skilled and he's not a bad teacher. He's also teaching my primary art, so I should have plenty of opportunity to practice whatever he shows us. But for some reason his personal style of movement just doesn't fit well with mine and so I rarely end up incorporating his material into my own sparring repertoire. He did decide to award me my black belt at one of his seminars, so that's nice I guess.

Renzo Gracie is a world class practitioner and a decent instructor, but I think he really shines as a coach who makes every student at the seminar feel welcome and motivated. Some of what he showed I was able to make use of immediately, some of it I didn't get until much later, some of it I still use to this day, and some of it leaked out of my brain before I had the chance to get home and write any of it down.

Roy Harris (BJJ/BJKD/Kali instructor) is one of the most technically oriented instructors I've ever met. I attended one of his seminars 20 years ago and I still use some of the drills and technical details and teaching methodology that I learned from him.

I did one seminar with Herman Suwanda, a highly regarded Silat instructor, but I have some of the same complaints with his teaching as with Dan Inosanto's. He wasn't as fast paced, but he did show a lot of complex sequences that I could tell my fellow seminar attendees were not understanding at any sort of functional level. He helped out students who were having trouble remembering the choreography, but he wasn't correcting any of their obvious functional technical flaws.

Neil Adams is a Judo Olympic medalist and delivered the best Judo class I have ever experienced. I think that if I had the chance for some more seminars with him, it would really improve my Judo game.

Vlad Koulikov is a world class Sambo practitioner and also a top-notch teacher. I had seen most if not all of the techniques he taught, but I learned a lot of important details that I had never realized before. I really hope I have a chance to train with him again. He also seems like a really chill dude who genuinely cares about helping every student to learn and improve.

I don't know if it exactly counts as a seminar, but my HEMA group set up a series of Zoom classes with Boris Krustev, a high-level HEMA practitioner from Bulgaria. He didn't do much in terms of explaining specific techniques, but rather devoted each class to giving us new kinds of training exercises for use to better learn how to apply the techniques we already knew. Very helpful. I don't know if he even officially charged us anything, but my instructor sent him a few bucks to show our gratitude.

I've been to seminars with a lot of other instructors, but I think the above gives a good sample of the types of experiences I've had.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Okay, here are my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts on what factors help make a truly worthwhile seminar. (Followed by some examples from my experience where I name names. Hopefully no one gets offended.)

• How well does the instructor know their subject? Do they have knowledge and insights that I wouldn't get from my daily training?
• How good is the instructor at teaching? Some people have world class skills as a practitioner but suck at pedagogy (and vice versa).
• How good is the actual material being taught for my current purposes? If I'm looking for instruction which will help improve my fighting ability and the art being shown is hot garbage from a combative perspective, then it's not going to help me even if the instruction is good.
• Does my regular training give me the opportunity to practice whatever I learn during the seminar? If I'm a boxer who goes to a Judo seminar and I don't have anybody at my gym who is willing to practice Judo with me, then it doesn't matter how good the teacher was, I won't have a chance to develop any skill in what I was shown.
• Am I personally ready as a martial artist to understand whatever I'm being shown at the seminar? If the instructor is showing some subtle nuance of a specialized technique for a specialized context and I'm still working on developing gross motor skills and don't even understand the position being discussed, then I'm unlikely to get much value out of the experience.
• Does the material being shown fit with my personal skill set, style, and inclinations?

Now to name names with some examples ...

My very first seminar was with Stephen Hayes and I attended a number of sessions with him over the years. In my opinion, his teaching skills were excellent. He did a good job of not only demonstrating the techniques, but communicating the concepts behind them. He set a good pace, giving students enough time to practice the moves, giving feedback, but not spending so much time that participants got bored. He also had an interesting way of thinking about how martial arts practice could provide lessons for one's daily life that still influences me to this day.

On the downside ... by my current standards his skill level was not particularly high. He seemed amazing to me at the time, but I've learned a lot since then. Also the material he taught was not, in my current judgment, particularly good for the stated purpose of self-defense. Since MT has a policy against art-bashing, I'm not going to go any further than that.

I've been to a couple of seminars with Dan Inosanto. I have a ton of respect for his skills and knowledge. I also think that his seminars are not particularly useful for someone wanting to learn what he has to teach. At the last seminar I attended by him a few years ago, he would demo a complex combination (8-10 moves long), give us all of 3-4 minutes to practice it, then go on to the next sequence while most of the students were still trying to figure out if they had all the movements in the right order. There was zero explanation of the concepts, no explanation of how to make any of the movements functional, just a huge brain dump of long technique sequences with no time to commit them to memory or write them down for later study.

I've been to a fair number of seminars with Carlson Gracie Jr, because he is my instructor's instructor and I want to be supportive of the association whenever he comes to town. Carlson is obviously very knowledgeable and skilled and he's not a bad teacher. He's also teaching my primary art, so I should have plenty of opportunity to practice whatever he shows us. But for some reason his personal style of movement just doesn't fit well with mine and so I rarely end up incorporating his material into my own sparring repertoire. He did decide to award me my black belt at one of his seminars, so that's nice I guess.

Renzo Gracie is a world class practitioner and a decent instructor, but I think he really shines as a coach who makes every student at the seminar feel welcome and motivated. Some of what he showed I was able to make use of immediately, some of it I didn't get until much later, some of it I still use to this day, and some of it leaked out of my brain before I had the chance to get home and write any of it down.

Roy Harris (BJJ/BJKD/Kali instructor) is one of the most technically oriented instructors I've ever met. I attended one of his seminars 20 years ago and I still use some of the drills and technical details and teaching methodology that I learned from him.

I did one seminar with Herman Suwanda, a highly regarded Silat instructor, but I have some of the same complaints with his teaching as with Dan Inosanto's. He wasn't as fast paced, but he did show a lot of complex sequences that I could tell my fellow seminar attendees were not understanding at any sort of functional level. He helped out students who were having trouble remembering the choreography, but he wasn't correcting any of their obvious functional technical flaws.

Neil Adams is a Judo Olympic medalist and delivered the best Judo class I have ever experienced. I think that if I had the chance for some more seminars with him, it would really improve my Judo game.

Vlad Koulikov is a world class Sambo practitioner and also a top-notch teacher. I had seen most if not all of the techniques he taught, but I learned a lot of important details that I had never realized before. I really hope I have a chance to train with him again. He also seems like a really chill dude who genuinely cares about helping every student to learn and improve.

I don't know if it exactly counts as a seminar, but my HEMA group set up a series of Zoom classes with Boris Krustev, a high-level HEMA practitioner from Bulgaria. He didn't do much in terms of explaining specific techniques, but rather devoted each class to giving us new kinds of training exercises for use to better learn how to apply the techniques we already knew. Very helpful. I don't know if he even officially charged us anything, but my instructor sent him a few bucks to show our gratitude.

I've been to seminars with a lot of other instructors, but I think the above gives a good sample of the types of experiences I've had.

And the Chris Parker award for incredibly long posting goes too....

Sorry Tony, I couldn't resist

But thank you for posting that, it clarified things

 

[Tony Dismukes]

And the Chris Parker award for incredibly long posting goes too....

One reason I don't post more than I do is because sometimes what I want to say ends up being long and involved enough that I can't always find the time to think it through, type it up, and proofread.

I do think that I usually manage to be a little more concise than Chris, though,

 

[Xue Sheng]

One reason I don't post more than I do is because sometimes what I want to say ends up being long and involved enough that I can't always find the time to think it through, type it up, and proofread.

I do think that I usually manage to be a little more concise than Chris, though,

It has nothing to do with concise, it has a lot to do with forcing me to read long posts, that if I want to answer properly I have to, when I am to lazy to want to read so many words, and simply do not want to put in the work

But in all seriousness, I appreciated you post and explanation.

There was a time, in the old days, here on MT, when I produced some pretty long posts myself

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

ah... I never thought of it like that..

IMO, you may go to workshop just to learn some important key points such as.

- Line up your back foot with both of your opponent's feet.
- Elbow point down.
- Raise elbow and sink wrist.
- Hop.
- ...

For example, your school instructor may teach you to move your left leg first, and then attack with your right leg. In workshop you may learn how to combine 2 steps into 1 hop (faster).

 

[GojuTommy]

I think the biggest question is are paid seminars that valuable in the YT age?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think the biggest question is are paid seminars that valuable in the YT age?

I've seen some excellent seminars available for free on YouTube, as well as excellent non-seminar instructional material. (Plenty of crappy material as well, but one advantage of having lots of experience is that I'm pretty good at distinguishing one from the other.) But seminars offer the chance to get personalized correction, feedback, and answers to questions.

How useful that chance is depends on how willing and able the instructor is to give useful feedback. Some instructors are really good at showing you that one little detail you need to adjust in order to fix a problem. Others are ... not.

This applies to regular non-seminar classes as well. There are a lot of instructors who can show you what to do, but aren't very good at communicating what the student needs to do in order to fix any difficulties they are having.

 

[GojuTommy]

I've seen some excellent seminars available for free on YouTube, as well as excellent non-seminar instructional material. (Plenty of crappy material as well, but one advantage of having lots of experience is that I'm pretty good at distinguishing one from the other.) But seminars offer the chance to get personalized correction, feedback, and answers to questions.

How useful that chance is depends on how willing and able the instructor is to give useful feedback. Some instructors are really good at showing you that one little detail you need to adjust in order to fix a problem. Others are ... not.

This applies to regular non-seminar classes as well. There are a lot of instructors who can show you what to do, but aren't very good at communicating what the student needs to do in order to fix any difficulties they are having.

But again is the seminar at $200 for an 8 hour session still worth that for that feedback? Especially when you can contact so many of the YT channels to ask questions and get feedback.