- Thread Starter
- #21
ok, my misunderstanding of your intents.
Apologies.
Apologies.
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This is stupid. I do not understand the point of these threads. Any numpty can extract verses from any holy text and cite it in a complete contextual vacuum. this is exactly what cults, sects and fundamentalists do. To do so is backward and uneducated. Who here practices a martial art the way it was originally conceived, to kill and maim???
The various holy texts are historical documents. It is up to us to interpret them with common sense and moderation.
EVERYTHING ELSE HERE IS JUST FORUM STATIC
I am seeking no argument with you and but you have killed and maimed in your martial art? Surely you take your martial art as it was designed to kill and maim and you moderate it because you live in 2011 no?Er, actually I do! So does our club and quite a few others I know of.
The various holy texts are historical documents. It is up to us to interpret them with common sense and moderation.
Yes, the bible is one of those texts which demands a literal interpretation and but *within certain constraints*. Unfortunately there are many who follow its writings (and similarly for other religions) without any points of reference whatsoever, feeling at liberty to extract and utilise chapter and verse as weapons to win their own capricious personal and global wars. Nevertheless, these holy texts are documents constructed in a time that, though it was in many ways similar, is in many others vastly different to today. The prophets from all religious traditions accepted and based their teachings around the concept of freewill, It is in the end unfortunate in my opinion that this choice is left to the individual adherent or group or sect to contextualise and moderate the teachings (or not!) in line with how the world has changed since the inception of those teachings.This, vs sola scriptura, which demands the abandonment of tradition, is one of the major schisms in the various christian churches. So, there really are a LOT of "True Christians" who read their book this way.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)3b)
“...the scripture cannot be broken.” -- John 10:35
ok, my misunderstanding of your intents.
Apologies.
I spent 3 of my 4 years in High School as a member of the bible study club. Was top student several years in my Sunday School (got the autographed prayer book to prove it too, ). I've spent significant time reading holy books from all the major faiths, several 'dead' ones, and several 'minor' faiths as well. I don't consider myself a 'scholar', but do consider myself 'versed'. I've had at least 1 pastor complain I knew the Bible better than most of his congregation.
I don't disagree with you Jenna. If one looks at the Bible as a guide one can cherry pick. However if one looks at it as law, one cannot. My arguments on all these books is that the documents were written about 2,000 years ago, in a different time, under different political and social and geographical conditions. Putting them into context, they are all outdated, obsolete and out of touch. This thread was started because a member made a claim. Actually, over the last few years a few members made the same or similar claims. All this does is disprove those claims.
If you are a Christian, a Follower of Christ, then as he reportedly said, all of the OT laws are in force.
That reads as in don't cherry pick, follow all of it.
So, those following Christ who make claims like "The Bible claims homosexuality is a sin, but we can eat shrimp now because Jesus voided that rule" are simply put, wrong.
A person can make the decision to live by modern social standards, and drop the parts that are obviously outdated (like taking a paddle and pooping 25' outside of town), but a strict read says you still need to do that because it's always (at least according to Matthew) going to be the law.
All religions fail when tested against logic and reason.
Jenna, I think that's exactly the point. If I understand correctly, Bob is trying a different tactic to persuade some people on the forum that they are doing nothing more than "extract[ing] verses from any holy text and cite it in a complete contextual vacuum." The point I'm getting from Bob is exactly your point, any numpty (I love this word) can do this, and many here have been doing this for months against the muslim faith. He's tried refuting the arguments against muslims by Twin Fist with facts and that hasn't gone anywhere, so I applaud him for taking a different tack and demonstrating how easy it is for any numpty to pull things out of context.This is stupid. I do not understand the point of these threads. Any numpty can extract verses from any holy text and cite it in a complete contextual vacuum. this is exactly what cults, sects and fundamentalists do. To do so is backward and uneducated. Who here practices a martial art the way it was originally conceived, to kill and maim???
The various holy texts are historical documents. It is up to us to interpret them with common sense and moderation.
EVERYTHING ELSE HERE IS JUST FORUM STATIC
Did Christ tell the priests to stone the adulteress Bob? That was an OT law. I don't think you understand what Christs message was in relation to the OT.
I think respectfully Bob that you have cherry picked the issue of homosexuality in the bible because it is an outwardly fraught issue.
:cheers::highfive:artyon:artyon:Jenna, I think that's exactly the point. If I understand correctly, Bob is trying a different tactic to persuade some people on the forum that they are doing nothing more than "extract[ing] verses from any holy text and cite it in a complete contextual vacuum." The point I'm getting from Bob is exactly your point, any numpty (I love this word) can do this, and many here have been doing this for months against the muslim faith. He's tried refuting the arguments against muslims by Twin Fist with facts and that hasn't gone anywhere, so I applaud him for taking a different tack and demonstrating how easy it is for any numpty to pull things out of context.
Take this same point and apply it to socialism, liberalism, progressivism, conservativism or any other ism you can think of. The lesson is this: any numpty can do this.
Exactly. And its an important distinction when it comes to interpreting the application of OT "law" that you are cherry picking. Especially in context of faiths who want to take the literal word of the book (all those head lopping Islamic gvts for example) over the deeper message.In the case of the adulteress, he never said don't kill her. He just said let the one who hasn't sinned be the -first- to throw a rock.There's a difference.