"Christian Martial Arts"

[FearlessFreep]

Some of the worlds worst autrocities have been committed in the name of religion

You should say that the world's wort autocities have been committed for greed or the desire for power and control, some just used religion as an excuse

 

[Ray]

General info is necessary only. Was just curious if this was like "Billy Bibles take on jesus's TKD techniques". But it would be interesting to see what that is all about...so yea that title would be cool sometime. No worries about figuring it out quick or anything.

The book is: "Essential Shorinjiryu Karatedo" Author: Masayuki Kukan Hisataka. Publisher: Charles E. Tuttle Co. First edition: 1994.

Page 17, "Early History of Budo: "For example, it has been claimed the the prophet Moses visited the land of Hinomoto in about 1425 B.C..." Moses is apparently buried inside Hotatsu Mountain.

"It is claimed that as he [Jesus Christ] was impressed by the skills and teaching of Shaka, he made a journey...to India...and decided to continue to Hinomoto...in the 642 year of the Jingu Kingen era. Christ remained there for 5 years, receiving training in miraculous deeds, writing, ceremonial procedures, history, theocracy and other basic disiplines."

It doesn't preface any of that with "Here are some myths" or anything like it.

 

[beau_safken]

I might just check it out for a good laugh. Gotta love having access to the best books in the world...MEchanics library for life baby.

I'll get back to you if I can stomach it.

 

[Flying Crane]

receiving training in miraculous deeds

I want training in Miraculous Deeds. Where can I get some of that?

My God, it sounds like Dungeons and Dragons!

 

[beau_safken]

Oh damn sorry about that man...

Dam Roll of 16
Save Roll of 8..

You lose

 

[Flying Crane]

Oh damn sorry about that man...

Dam Roll of 16
Save Roll of 8..

You lose

Yes, but I have an 18 Charisma score, doesn't that count?

 

[Flying Crane]

So there I was, my Cleric character was separated from the rest of the Adventurers and surrounded by a warparty of Orcs backed up by 14 Trolls, a company of Hobgoblins and a pair of Hill Giants. It really looked bad, with nowhere to run, so I dug deep and performed my "Miraculous Deeds" spell! I rolled high, they rolled low and I was successful!! They all turned into Five Loaves and Two Fish!!!

 

[Monadnock]

Ok, I've seen Christian flavored martial arts before, claiming it's original intent was Christian God-centered seems a little bit of a stretch, how do they get that when they are doing Karate?

It has to do with the intent of the training, following the Law and practicing/teaching for His glory. Karate, like a lot of positive activites can be done in a Christian atmosphere.

There will always be frindge extreme groups claiming this or that. I'd suggest a little more reading on the part of the other posters before tossing the whole idea out the window as a bunch of bible-thumping crazies with jo's.

But this has all come up before on MT.

 

[IcemanSK]

Ok, I've seen Christian flavored martial arts before, claiming it's original intent was Christian God-centered seems a little bit of a stretch, how do they get that when they are doing Karate?



This part is new to me, I don't think I have ever seen it claimed that Karate was founded by Adam...?

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060311/NEWS/603110317/1021

If it was, one would think it would be a bigger deal in Scripture than it is. (Yet, its non-existant!) I've put my $.02 about this here before. It really is hard for to stomach.

 

[beau_safken]

Yes, but I have an 18 Charisma score, doesn't that count?

The worst part is I actually rolled for those numbers....I use them at work to mess with my boss.... Damn...I cant believe I admitted that..

 

[Marginal]

My take....you can be a christian and a martial artist...but not a christian martial artist...Jesus said to turn the other cheek.....if someone takes your robe give him you caoat as well (is that self defence).....jesus said love your ememies.

Nah. You just love 'em so much that you will do anything to prevent them from commiting a terrible sin. Even if they die, hey, at least your neighbor's *** wasn't coveted so they go to heaven and everyone's happy.

 

[Cryozombie]

You guys... nevermind.
​

 

[SAVAGE]

Nah. You just love 'em so much that you will do anything to prevent them from commiting a terrible sin. Even if they die, hey, at least your neighbor's *** wasn't coveted so they go to heaven and everyone's happy.

WOW....so angry! I say that you can be a martial artist and a christian! But the philosophies of MA contrtadict the teachings of Jrsus...so you need to learn them seperately! You cannot fuse thein any standard way...it needs to be a individual thing!!!

God Bless!

 

[Marginal]

WOW....so angry! I say that you can be a martial artist and a christian! But the philosophies of MA contrtadict the teachings of Jrsus...so you need to learn them seperately! You cannot fuse thein any standard way...it needs to be a individual thing!!!

Um, well... I was kidding. (I had hoped that would be implicit with the mention of one of the more assinine commandments).

But really, the whole point of sects like the one in the article is to cherry pick the parts of the Bible that they happen to like best. It's not to advance any greater agenda than increasing attendance and fattening the donation bin. There's a mega church in Boulder county that's claiming religious persecution because the planning commission turned down their request to build a gymnasuim on their property. (Sketchy reading of the Bible going on there too.)

 

[stone_dragone]

Christian Softball leagues. Buddhist Softball leagues.

Christian Bowling leagues. Hindu Bowling leagues.

Christian Buisnesses. Islamic Buisnesses.

Christian Martial Arts Schools. Secular Martial Arts Schools.

Christian Basket Weaving Academies. Hebrew Basket Weaving......


In the end, the difference is the motivation for why and how they each do what they do. That difference in motivation is the driving force in how they go about their various activities.

As a follower of Christ, I'm told not to judge others for their beliefs or practices. I do my best, but I'm human. I ask for the same for my brothers and sisters in Christ from those who don't believe.

Do I think that the school in the article is a little "out there"? Yes.
Is the cross made from two jo-staff's kinda grasping at straws? Absolutely.
Do I agree with everything that they are teaching (at least according to the article)? No.
Do I need to? No.

Can the sometimes violent-facets of martial arts be used to convey the greater truths of God's love for us? No less than it can convey the harmonious peaceful state and self-perfection that is sought from those studying Budo.

Am I trying to cram my beliefs down your throat? Not if you're still reading this post.

To say that religious zealots are bad is to say that martial arts zealots are bad, as well. If nobody were zealous in their beliefs or practices, then eveybody would be mediocre, so-so or just plain middle-of-the-road. Funakoshi, Parker, Miyagi, Ueshiba, Kano, Lee, Rhee (sorry for leaving out chinese masters, you can see where my background lies...), all Martial zealots.

We should thank zealots for showing you where on the continuum you sit (and that there just might be someone nuttier than yourself!) While religious zealots have done such things as fly planes into buildings and tried to conquer the world (911 and the Crusades...a little of both sides), they have also revealed corruption in the Catholic church (Martin Luther) and invented Beer (monks), neither of which can be seen as a bad thing from my seat. In several more months, I'll be back from the desert (OIF), being a dark-beer zealot once again.

My two bits...

 

[Flying Crane]

Christian Softball leagues. Buddhist Softball leagues.

Christian Bowling leagues. Hindu Bowling leagues.

Christian Buisnesses. Islamic Buisnesses.

Christian Martial Arts Schools. Secular Martial Arts Schools.

Christian Basket Weaving Academies. Hebrew Basket Weaving......


In the end, the difference is the motivation for why and how they each do what they do. That difference in motivation is the driving force in how they go about their various activities.

As a follower of Christ, I'm told not to judge others for their beliefs or practices. I do my best, but I'm human. I ask for the same for my brothers and sisters in Christ from those who don't believe.

Do I think that the school in the article is a little "out there"? Yes.
Is the cross made from two jo-staff's kinda grasping at straws? Absolutely.
Do I agree with everything that they are teaching (at least according to the article)? No.
Do I need to? No.

Can the sometimes violent-facets of martial arts be used to convey the greater truths of God's love for us? No less than it can convey the harmonious peaceful state and self-perfection that is sought from those studying Budo.

Am I trying to cram my beliefs down your throat? Not if you're still reading this post.

To say that religious zealots are bad is to say that martial arts zealots are bad, as well. If nobody were zealous in their beliefs or practices, then eveybody would be mediocre, so-so or just plain middle-of-the-road. Funakoshi, Parker, Miyagi, Ueshiba, Kano, Lee, Rhee (sorry for leaving out chinese masters, you can see where my background lies...), all Martial zealots.

We should thank zealots for showing you where on the continuum you sit (and that there just might be someone nuttier than yourself!) While religious zealots have done such things as fly planes into buildings and tried to conquer the world (911 and the Crusades...a little of both sides), they have also revealed corruption in the Catholic church (Martin Luther) and invented Beer (monks), neither of which can be seen as a bad thing from my seat. In several more months, I'll be back from the desert (OIF), being a dark-beer zealot once again.

My two bits...

There is a difference between being passionate about your beliefs and interests, and being a zealot or a fanatic.

A zealot or fanatic believes that there is only one way to do something, and everyone should believe what he believes. He believes that anyone who does not believe as he does is evil (at least in the case of religion), and actively tries to convert everyone to his beliefs. A zealot or fanatic is often willing to twist history to serve his own beliefs.

One who is passionate about their beliefs and interests spends much time actively pursuing these beliefs, connects with others who share these beliefs, extends a welcoming hand to others who may wish to join, but remains respectful of those who do not.

I would say that Funakoshi, Miyagi, Parker, Lee, Rhee, Ueyishiba, Kano, and yourself, are passionate about your beliefs and interests. I wouldn't say you and they are zealots or fanatics.

 

[stone_dragone]

There is a difference between being passionate about your beliefs and interests, and being a zealot or a fanatic.

A zealot or fanatic believes that there is only one way to do something, and everyone should believe what he believes. He believes that anyone who does not believe as he does is evil (at least in the case of religion), and actively tries to convert everyone to his beliefs. A zealot or fanatic is often willing to twist history to serve his own beliefs.

One who is passionate about their beliefs and interests spends much time actively pursuing these beliefs, connects with others who share these beliefs, extends a welcoming hand to others who may wish to join, but remains respectful of those who do not.

I would say that Funakoshi, Miyagi, Parker, Lee, Rhee, Ueyishiba, Kano, and yourself, are passionate about your beliefs and interests. I wouldn't say you and they are zealots or fanatics.

Fair enough! :asian:

 

[Don Roley]

I was going to start a new thread about this, but this seems the place to talk about it.

I have noticed that those that make a big deal of being Christians are the worst examples of the religion. Has anyone else thought this?

Those that are religious, but don't make a big show of it, seem to be the best people I know. It is the guys that try to impress others with how pious they are that are the ones that should be shot.:mp5:

I know a few folks that just live the life of treating others as they would want to be treated. I never knew they were religious until I knew them and they could not make it to something due to church commitments. Otherwise you would never know. They never try to shove their religion down your throat- but are great examples of good Christians.

Let me give you some names. Bob Orlando and Steve Plinckt are both great practicioners of Silat and are friends with a friend of mine. I have met them and trained under them and until I did, I did not know they were active in religion. It was just a simple acknowledgement in both cases.

Then there is this.... other guy who is pretty much a part of the same tradition as them. But he makes a big deal about his religious beliefs on his tape I have as well as on his web site, etc. This guy is an anti-semite and openly hinted at threats of violence against others on the internet and other unsavory acts. Last I heard, they nailed him and put him behind bars. When they picked him up, he had something like 9 knives on him.

Oh yeah, and then there is the bozo cult I am helping some ex-members defend themselves legally from. One of the big things this cult master uses to keep his status in his area is his devotion to Jesus and the Christian emphisis of his claimed school of ninjutsu. And that is not even the only ninja fraud I could mention who has tried to hide behind religion.

So does anyone else think that those that try to make a big deal about being Christian are those least worthy of the title?

 

[Carol]

Personally, I think it depends on the person, Don. I think a lot of the people that are well deserving of the "title" go unnoticed. We tend to only make a big deal out of the people that bug us, and pay little attention to the people that lead an exemplary life of service and sacrifice.

Many Christian folks expres some tremendously inspiring personal experiences that have brought them closer to the Almighty.

However, with some zealots, the inspiration of personal experience seems to take a back seat when it comes to expressing hatred.

Where personal experience can bring a person from any path closer to God, I question if it is aslo truly personal experience that makes a Christian think that every non-Christian is inherently evil? Or, is it because that Christian was told such a thing so often that such a person believes it to be truth? More confusing still is my wonderment as to why such hate is tolerated within the confines of the faith.

Perhaps there are many worthy Christians whose selfless faith and acts have simply been lost in the glare of "group-think". If that is the case, that is a terrible loss.

No disrespect to anyone was meant from me, if any was take, I beg your forgiveness. :asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Both great good and great evil can be done in the name of religion, but then again both great good and great evil can be done without religion as well.

A zealot is an extremist and that is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be incredibly annoying. It is when the extremist crosses that line that things can get real bad real fast. I have always had great respect for a truly religious person, but I have great concern when it comes to a zealot.

Some people, and I am talking western and Middle Eastern religions here, Tend to get very close minded as to what they perceive as the true way. They are insistent that it is theirs and only theirs and all others that do not agree are wrong, ignorant and/or evil. But you can get this same attitude outside of religion as well.

You also have those that can be complete B*st*rds, lie, cheat, and steal Monday through Saturday but on Sunday they go to church and all is forgiven and they believe they can do what they want because they go to church on Sunday. I generally refer to these a compartmentalized Christians.

What my big concern is though are the people that are rewriting religious history to support their extremist beliefs and then justifying their actions by this rewrite of history. Those people are very scary to me.

When this crosses over to a martial arts venue it becomes something other than martial arts. It hints at cult and that too is of great concern to me.

However I am not saying that if you combine religion and martial arts you get a cult, quite the contrary, if that is what makes you happy and you re doing it because you are truly religious then I have great respect for your conviction.

But when you are adding the religious aspect to the martial art because you do not understand the culture from which it came or you feel that that culture is evil because it is not Christian, that is a very different thing which I am very against, but still not a cult.

It is when you get the extremist view mixed with Martial arts that it starts getting a bit scary. I have seen a couple of these, they always stay together, they do not discuss things with people outside of the group and they are truly convinced they are of the chosen people and doing gods will with martial arts training. And if you do not agree with them you are just wrong, end of story. And if someone is a member and wants to leave that person is asking for trouble.

SOAP BOX WARNING - THIS IS NOT A DRILL

This is slightly off post, and I apologize, but I feel that when you really get right down to the root of the issues between many religious disagreements it is basically 1 group feels that their way of worshiping god is better than another group. It is the same deity I just don’t understand what the argument is about in that case.

OFF SOAP BOX – WARNING OVER.